The "Nice Guy" and the friendzone, Society's attitude

[Ostroeuropa]

I also can strike casual conversation in the street, festivals, or the bus, the problem is the starter. For me I always get stumped in the following trail of thought:

"What the fuck do I say so they don't think of me like an idiot? Oh I know, I can talk about... No, that's so cliche, oh wait, maybe I could... No, that's pretty stupid, plus I don't even know them that well, or perhaps I could..."

As a matter of fact, my latest relationship I had the starter was a book of Dreamweaver CS5 she was reading
See where I'm getting at?

So then strike up conversations with people around you, if there's stuff happening that's interesting you can talk about that, if not, ask them about themselves. Not like bombarding them with questions, just a simple "what do you do for a living?" "read any good books lately?" and then when you have a comment, wait for them to finish their sentence and comment (keeping it positive). People tend to like talking about themselves and it takes the pressure off you to come up with something to say.

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond
If you can pull off the mr plinkett voice / the voice mat and pat do from TBF-Play, you're golden.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I also can strike casual conversation in the street, festivals, or the bus, the problem is the starter. For me I always get stumped in the following trail of thought:

"What the fuck do I say so they don't think of me like an idiot? Oh I know, I can talk about... No, that's so cliche, oh wait, maybe I could... No, that's pretty stupid, plus I don't even know them that well, or perhaps I could..."

As a matter of fact, my latest relationship I had the starter was a book of Dreamweaver CS5 she was reading
See where I'm getting at?

So then strike up conversations with people around you, if there's stuff happening that's interesting you can talk about that, if not, ask them about themselves. Not like bombarding them with questions, just a simple "what do you do for a living?" "read any good books lately?" and then when you have a comment, wait for them to finish their sentence and comment (keeping it positive). People tend to like talking about themselves and it takes the pressure off you to come up with something to say.

Good point

Although in truth I am becoming better at it, so it isn't a difficult thing to solve, it just takes time

[Neo Art]

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond

Has gotten me laid more times than I can count.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So then strike up conversations with people around you, if there's stuff happening that's interesting you can talk about that, if not, ask them about themselves. Not like bombarding them with questions, just a simple "what do you do for a living?" "read any good books lately?" and then when you have a comment, wait for them to finish their sentence and comment (keeping it positive). People tend to like talking about themselves and it takes the pressure off you to come up with something to say.

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond

Now that you mention it, I have taken up on displaying my sense of humor. Girls seems to like it.

[Central Slavia]

See, this is what I dislike about where conversations like this thread. It starts off as some posts about how guys who think women are sex vending machines are twats and turns into some weird circle jerk about how much of a twat "nice guys" because they want to use people for sex, even though there's still a strong chance that they're desperately lonely individuals and are frustrated they missed what they thought is a chance for romantic contact.

The problem is, there's really only two possible responses for "desperately lonely and frustrated person". The first is "well, life sucks, doesn't it?" and the other is to go the route of somehow arguing that somebody should be compelled to date this frustrated, lonely person.

And since nobody on NSG is QUITE insane enough to suggest some governmentally mandated program where women are compelled to date frustrated lonely men, the only real discussion that can be had about the plight of actually legitimately worthwhile people who just haven't been able to find a meaningful relationship is "well, life sure does suck sometimes, doesn't it?"

And since "well, life sure does suck sometimes, doesn't it?" is a pretty short conversation, things tend to move on pretty quickly to other areas. I mean, what exactly are we supposed to talk about in that subject?

There's actually a guy on the internet who believes just that. Quite a hillarious read.

[Ostroeuropa]

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond

Now that you mention it, I have taken up on displaying my sense of humor. Girls seems to like it.

I lost my virginity after narrating a waiter's thoughts about his shitty day.
(He looked miserable and we could overhear the customers he was serving being rude.)
Which was on a date, come to think of it, though it didn't begin as one. I don't think.
Does it count as a date if it starts as a bunch of you and just trickles down to two of you?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Close, Australian

Well, close in mannerisms, I suppose. As an American, my perception has been different, "friendzoned" is the parlance of:

1) horny guys
2) teenagers and early 20somethings

and the very large overlap between the two.

Well we agree on the age sect which is something I suppose. I've noticed horny guys who don't get laid generally seem to complain about girls being sluts, don't ask me about the logic behind that one.

we're obviously looking at this from two different perspectives,

[Neo Art]

The problem is, there's really only two possible responses for "desperately lonely and frustrated person". The first is "well, life sucks, doesn't it?" and the other is to go the route of somehow arguing that somebody should be compelled to date this frustrated, lonely person.

And since nobody on NSG is QUITE insane enough to suggest some governmentally mandated program where women are compelled to date frustrated lonely men, the only real discussion that can be had about the plight of actually legitimately worthwhile people who just haven't been able to find a meaningful relationship is "well, life sure does suck sometimes, doesn't it?"

And since "well, life sure does suck sometimes, doesn't it?" is a pretty short conversation, things tend to move on pretty quickly to other areas. I mean, what exactly are we supposed to talk about in that subject?

There's actually a guy on the internet who believes just that. Quite a hillarious read.

I am...familiar with that. Hence my statement that there's nobody HERE who's quite crazy enough for that.

That said, I'm fairly certain this site is a troll on MRAs as much as Femitheist Divine is on feminist movements.

[Dakini]

Its true. I am also a big bad horrible misandrist who wants to cut off all the men's cocks and install Feminist Pope Bottle as supreme ruler of a female dominated empire where eunuchs serve as slave labor.

As an aside, I'e always loved the pearl clutching over "creep shaming" in certain circles. Implying that creeps like those should not be shamed.

Well hey now, I don't think shame is ever necessarily a constructive thing to do. You're just being an asshole if you go around shaming creeps instead of pulling them aside and informing them which actions are creepy and why they should stop.
Shame implies public or group-wide humiliation. I can't see any circumstance where that's useful except for making someone feel like shit.

People sometimes use "creep shaming" to refer to anyone calling anyone else a creep.

I mean, there was a total creep who used to hang around and bother the women in our department a while back. We informed the guys that this guy was fucking creepy as shit and they often didn't see it (because he wouldn't talk to them... at all, instead he'd join up with a group of people he's barely acquainted to and start talking to only the women), but some of them would pay attention when we were looking uncomfortable and bail us out of having to talk to him. I would give the guy one word answers to try and be polite while shutting down the conversation because he made me really uncomfortable.

Was I going to tell him he's a creep? No. He's a creep, he clearly doesn't understand what my body language is saying or what I'm saying when I respond to questions that require a lot of words with a single word or when I jump to other conversations to avoid talking to him. He doesn't notice or care that I cross the hallway when I see him or that I've actually run away from him sometimes. The one time one of my friends was in a good mood and actually tried to talk to him to be nice, he related how all other women were stuck up bitches and then proceeded to follow her around for a month. How the fuck do I think that some guy who thinks it's okay to impose himself on me is going to react if I tell him to go away because he's making me uncomfortable and being really creepy?

I didn't estimate that he'd take it well, let's put it that way, and I didn't feel like putting myself in harm's way to tell him why nobody wants to talk to him.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Now that you mention it, I have taken up on displaying my sense of humor. Girls seems to like it.

I lost my virginity after narrating a waiter's thoughts about his shitty day.
(He looked miserable and we could overhear the customers he was serving being rude.)
Which was on a date, come to think of it, though it didn't begin as one. I don't think.
Does it count as a date if it starts as a bunch of you and just trickles down to two of you?

It could very well be, it depends, but no not necessarily so.

[The Blaatschapen]

So then strike up conversations with people around you, if there's stuff happening that's interesting you can talk about that, if not, ask them about themselves. Not like bombarding them with questions, just a simple "what do you do for a living?" "read any good books lately?" and then when you have a comment, wait for them to finish their sentence and comment (keeping it positive). People tend to like talking about themselves and it takes the pressure off you to come up with something to say.

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond
If you can pull off the mr plinkett voice / the voice mat and pat do from TBF-Play, you're golden.

Can't do funny voices. Can do foreign children songs. It seems to work as well.

[Fnordgasm 5]

Speaking as someone who has a few female friends and is by them considered sweet, polite and some other adjectives associated with "nice" but is generally unable to get a girlfriend due poor social skills and a vague fear of rejection my opinion is that we should all, and this goes for the women as well but only in a figurative sense, man the fuck up, stop being such pussies and tell people what you want. Admittedly it's not working for me at the moment but that's mostly due to the fact I just don't get out much..


Man, I'm so lonely..

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond
If you can pull off the mr plinkett voice / the voice mat and pat do from TBF-Play, you're golden.

Can't do funny voices. Can do foreign children songs. It seems to work as well.

I can't do funny voices either, but I do make fun of things in general.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well hey now, I don't think shame is ever necessarily a constructive thing to do. You're just being an asshole if you go around shaming creeps instead of pulling them aside and informing them which actions are creepy and why they should stop.
Shame implies public or group-wide humiliation. I can't see any circumstance where that's useful except for making someone feel like shit.

People sometimes use "creep shaming" to refer to anyone calling anyone else a creep.

I mean, there was a total creep who used to hang around and bother the women in our department a while back. We informed the guys that this guy was fucking creepy as shit and they often didn't see it (because he wouldn't talk to them... at all, instead he'd join up with a group of people he's barely acquainted to and start talking to only the women), but some of them would pay attention when we were looking uncomfortable and bail us out of having to talk to him. I would give the guy one word answers to try and be polite while shutting down the conversation because he made me really uncomfortable.

Was I going to tell him he's a creep? No. He's a creep, he clearly doesn't understand what my body language is saying or what I'm saying when I respond to questions that require a lot of words with a single word or when I jump to other conversations to avoid talking to him. He doesn't notice or care that I cross the hallway when I see him or that I've actually run away from him sometimes. The one time one of my friends was in a good mood and actually tried to talk to him to be nice, he related how all other women were stuck up bitches and then proceeded to follow her around for a month. How the fuck do I think that some guy who thinks it's okay to impose himself on me is going to react if I tell him to go away because he's making me uncomfortable and being really creepy?

I didn't estimate that he'd take it well, let's put it that way, and I didn't feel like putting myself in harm's way to tell him why nobody wants to talk to him.

Ideally it'd be one of the guys that does it in that situation. I wouldn't call what you did in that situation "Shaming."
It's entirely socially acceptable to avoid contact with people if you don't want to talk to them and such.

[Central Slavia]

There's actually a guy on the internet who believes just that. Quite a hillarious read.

I am...familiar with that. Hence my statement that there's nobody HERE who's quite crazy enough for that.

That said, I'm fairly certain this site is a troll on MRAs as much as Femitheist Divine is on feminist movements.

Possibly, that said, both are hillarious reads anyways - if it's someone's troll, then well done. That said, there's always Poe's law.

[Dakini]

If all that fails, don a funny voice and start making fun of things in the immediate vicinity. If you're any good at it chances are they'll join in.
Sharing a laugh at other peoples expense is a good way to bond

Has gotten me laid more times than I can count.

Yeah...

[Neo Art]

Has gotten me laid more times than I can count.

Yeah...

I'm not sure how to interpret that, whether disbelief, or acknowledgement of the general idea from a female perspective.

I'm virtually certain it's not first hand acknowledgement, since "aspiring astrophysicist from Canada" was never on my list.

California, yes, but not Canada.

[Dakini]

People sometimes use "creep shaming" to refer to anyone calling anyone else a creep.

I mean, there was a total creep who used to hang around and bother the women in our department a while back. We informed the guys that this guy was fucking creepy as shit and they often didn't see it (because he wouldn't talk to them... at all, instead he'd join up with a group of people he's barely acquainted to and start talking to only the women), but some of them would pay attention when we were looking uncomfortable and bail us out of having to talk to him. I would give the guy one word answers to try and be polite while shutting down the conversation because he made me really uncomfortable.

Was I going to tell him he's a creep? No. He's a creep, he clearly doesn't understand what my body language is saying or what I'm saying when I respond to questions that require a lot of words with a single word or when I jump to other conversations to avoid talking to him. He doesn't notice or care that I cross the hallway when I see him or that I've actually run away from him sometimes. The one time one of my friends was in a good mood and actually tried to talk to him to be nice, he related how all other women were stuck up bitches and then proceeded to follow her around for a month. How the fuck do I think that some guy who thinks it's okay to impose himself on me is going to react if I tell him to go away because he's making me uncomfortable and being really creepy?

I didn't estimate that he'd take it well, let's put it that way, and I didn't feel like putting myself in harm's way to tell him why nobody wants to talk to him.

Ideally it'd be one of the guys that does it in that situation. I wouldn't call what you did in that situation "Shaming."

No, I was protecting myself by avoiding the creepy bastard.

But I've told this story before and been told that I was "creepy shaming" by virtue of being unwilling to talk to someone who was actively making me (and all the female graduate students in my department who were unfortunate enough to come across him) uncomfortable.

[Neo Art]

Ideally it'd be one of the guys that does it in that situation. I wouldn't call what you did in that situation "Shaming."

No, I was protecting myself by avoiding the creepy bastard.

But I've told this story before and been told that I was "creepy shaming" by virtue of being unwilling to talk to someone who was actively making me (and all the female graduate students in my department who were unfortunate enough to come across him) uncomfortable.

The only way to avoid creepshaming is to let him rub his crotch on your thigh.

otherwise, you're a horrible horrible person and are as bad as rapists.

[Dakini]

Yeah...

I'm not sure how to interpret that, whether disbelief, or acknowledgement of the general idea from a female perspective.

I'm virtually certain it's not first hand acknowledgement, since "aspiring astrophysicist from Canada" was never on my list.

California, yes, but not Canada.

Haha. Well, general acknowledgement of effectiveness and also an "I do that too..."

It's a very easy way to be funny if you're reasonably clever.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ideally it'd be one of the guys that does it in that situation. I wouldn't call what you did in that situation "Shaming."

No, I was protecting myself by avoiding the creepy bastard.

But I've told this story before and been told that I was "creepy shaming" by virtue of being unwilling to talk to someone who was actively making me (and all the female graduate students in my department who were unfortunate enough to come across him) uncomfortable.

If you're unwilling to sleep with sluts, you aren't slut shaming just from that.
I don't see how they could honestly compare the two.
I'd consider it shaming to publicly, you know, shame someone.

[Dakini]

No, I was protecting myself by avoiding the creepy bastard.

But I've told this story before and been told that I was "creepy shaming" by virtue of being unwilling to talk to someone who was actively making me (and all the female graduate students in my department who were unfortunate enough to come across him) uncomfortable.

The only way to avoid creepshaming is to let him rub his crotch on your thigh.

otherwise, you're a horrible horrible person and are as bad as rapists.

*shudder*

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No, I was protecting myself by avoiding the creepy bastard.

But I've told this story before and been told that I was "creepy shaming" by virtue of being unwilling to talk to someone who was actively making me (and all the female graduate students in my department who were unfortunate enough to come across him) uncomfortable.

The people who have told you that are idiots. It is perfectly reasonable to avoid contact with someone, who gives a flying fuck what the reasons were? If you don't like the person or he is making you uncomfortable is not your duty to cater to his sensibilities.

[Dakini]

No, I was protecting myself by avoiding the creepy bastard.

But I've told this story before and been told that I was "creepy shaming" by virtue of being unwilling to talk to someone who was actively making me (and all the female graduate students in my department who were unfortunate enough to come across him) uncomfortable.

If you're unwilling to sleep with sluts, you aren't slut shaming.
I don't see how they could honestly compare the two.

Because "they" are MRAs and "they" tend to be dishonest and they like to pretend that men have it just as bad (or worse!) as women in every possible scenario.

[Neo Art]

I'm not sure how to interpret that, whether disbelief, or acknowledgement of the general idea from a female perspective.

I'm virtually certain it's not first hand acknowledgement, since "aspiring astrophysicist from Canada" was never on my list.

California, yes, but not Canada.

Haha. Well, general acknowledgement of effectiveness and also an "I do that too..."

It's a very easy way to be funny if you're reasonably clever.

aren't you engaged now? Doesn't that severely limit the effectiveness of snark induced fuckery when the playing field is so narrow, and he's contractually obligated to do you anyway?

Unless you're one of those couples...