The "Nice Guy" and the friendzone, Society's attitude

[Ostroeuropa]

And then you assassinated her.

Eh, she's a fairly damaged person. I forgive her, I guess. Besides, it's cheaper to just buy ice cream and forget it.

[Arcturus IV]

I already said: I'm not interested in sex. It's never crossed my mind when talking to a girl that I truly have feelings for.

The ones I DON'T... even then no. I think I'm gonna be old-fashioned and wait.

Wait for what?

For ever.

Humanity as a whole are pretty bastard-y.

We have our redeeming qualities.

Debatable.

And with that, I think I'm going to bow out of this thread. I really can't handle shit heads blaming me for someone else's despicable treatment of me. I'll see you guys in another thread. Piss off, the lot of ya.

Blaming some else for your mistakes is not a way to live. People can be shitty, sure. So try not to be shitty back. As I was taught by my parents... the only one who you can truly control is yourself, and even though that can be imperfect, it is important to at least try, especially in the face of those who don't.

Take care.

A surprisingly levelheaded response to an unsurprisingly unlevelheaded post.

Funny, isn't it?

I mean, I WAS in the same relationships he describes, twice, and I don't feel I was abused.

I only feel I was a god damn idiot for not having seen through their bullshit sooner, but that is just inexperience.

Okay, here's the thing. It's very possible that the relationship could have evolved into an abusive one. The thing is though, he was completely and utterly at fault for KNOWINGLY taking a chance with this girl who he ADMITTED to sending mixed signals in the form of alluding to POTENTIAL relationships in the future. It's like being told by a foreign company that they will POTENTIALLY give you a job if you move there, then bitch and moan when they don't give you the job. It's childish and pathetic.

This doesn't mean that the foreign company is absolutely in no way manipulative.

Even after going to bed and waking up to return to 10+ new pages, this thread is still sad. As am I.

[The Blaatschapen]

"why do you feel entitled to sex if you are a nice guy, if you are nice guy you should feel fine about just being friends and you shouldn't be mad at her for putting you in the friendzone, being nice does not mean that she must automatically like you, she is not a vending machine where you put enough 'nice guy' coins in and you get to get something in return, it doesn't work like that, she could just not be attracted to you," etc. etc. etc.

I completely agree with this comment. Being nice doesn't entitle you to automatically be in a relationship with someone.

Being nice is a good thing and should be celebrated, but doesn't entitle you to anything.

The "friendzone" is a bullshit excuse for people who have feelings for their friends.

If being "nice" doesn't give any benefits, why be it in the first place?

[Czechanada]

And then you assassinated her.

Eh, she's a fairly damaged person. I forgive her, I guess. Besides, it's cheaper to just buy ice cream cake and forget it.

Much better.

[Norstal]

So you treat attempts at relationships like an experiment of Pavlov's Dogs? How absurd.

People learn from experience. When you have an unpleasant experience at something, you don't want to do it again.

I've rejected a lot of women in my life and they went off to have boyfriends without me.

inb4 women are different.

[Distruzio]

People learn from experience. When you have an unpleasant experience at something, you don't want to do it again.

I've rejected a lot of women in my life and they went off to have boyfriends without me.

inb4 women are different.

Women are differ-- damnit!

[Inyourfaceistan]

I completely agree with this comment. Being nice doesn't entitle you to automatically be in a relationship with someone.

Being nice is a good thing and should be celebrated, but doesn't entitle you to anything.

The "friendzone" is a bullshit excuse for people who have feelings for their friends.

If being "nice" doesn't give any benefits, why be it in the first place?

1) Maybe some people are just genuinely nice?

2) Maybe some people don't want said "benefits"...

[Salandriagado]

I completely agree with this comment. Being nice doesn't entitle you to automatically be in a relationship with someone.

Being nice is a good thing and should be celebrated, but doesn't entitle you to anything.

The "friendzone" is a bullshit excuse for people who have feelings for their friends.

If being "nice" doesn't give any benefits, why be it in the first place?

Because some people aren't arseholes.

[Page]

This whole thing is way too heteronormative for me to care about.

[Dovahlan]

Act like you are the shit.

If you act like you think you re important, women will for some reason start thinking youre actually as cool as you act like you think you are and they respond.

dont be nice per se; be forward

I got a girlfriend right now who is much hotter than I thought I could get lol because of the dont-give-a shit mentality

I kinda have this in the way I don't care what people think about me. But if you're nice to me, I'll be nice you, if you are a dick or annoy, I'll be a dick to you.

What I don't get is why "nice guys" seem to only be nice when they want sex. Do these guys also act kind and compassionate for women they aren't into, or even be friendly to other guys?

The other side is that legitimate nice guys don't know where to look. I see dudes always moping they are geniunely kind and sweet to girl but she acts like a slutty bitch. But it's stupid because if they didnt seek out slutty bitches because they have big tits and a nice ass (not saying all women with those features are slutty bitches, just talking from perspective) no freaking duh they are going to wreck your feelings because they aren't nice girls!

Hmmm.... I think one of my gf's since 7th grade matches that.... and I've had about two or three a school year...

[Jello Biafra]

No.
Firstly, if he (or she, for that matter) is not making a formal move, then he's not being obvious enough.

Bullshit.

Look. Let's say we have two people. We'll call them A or B.

A likes B. B likes A.

A knows that B likes A.
B does not know that A likes B.

Doesn't matter whether this knowledge is due to a dozen red roses and a formal invitation to the prom or whether A talked to B's mom, who read B's diary in clear violation of B's privacy. If A knows and B doesn't, A holds a greater share of the blame. Period.

It certainly does matter, given that the only way to actually know is for B to have declared that they like A. It doesn't matter what B wrote in their diary, because B could've decided that they didn't like A in the time since that was written.

Does she actually know they like her? And does she actually like them?

If they've asked her out, then yes, she does know.

If she has a better idea of what's up, wants him, and is sitting around waiting for him to jump through the appropriate social convention hoops, she deserves a greater share of the blame. If she doesn't want him, we're dealing with a different reason on the list than #1 or #6. If she's not interested, and he acts per #1, he's rejected (for something in the #2-#5 range, if we've been thorough, though I doubt we have even between us).

Or alternatively, she thinks he and one of many other guys could be worthy potential partners and will go on a date with whichever one of them asks her out first.

[Jello Biafra]

I actually agree with Tahar on this one, in this day and age I find it tedious that it's generally up to men to make the move, note 'generally..

In general, people do not wish to go out with people unless they know that that person is willing to make an effort on their part. Social conventions dictate that women generally have to spend a lot of time on their appearances, while men have to go to the effort of asking a woman out and risking rejection.

Nonetheless, if this were a thread about women who can't seem to find the right guy, who always seems to date the wrong ones, I'd certainly ask her if she's asking out the right guys, and tell her that she should be doing so. If you're lonely, you* should be making the effort to change it; you shouldn't expect that other people will go out of their way to ease your loneliness.

*general 'you'

[Imsogone]

This whole thing is way too heteronormative for me to care about.

You mean gay people aren't like that? I wonder how many people would consider turning gay if they knew that all gay people are honest, aboveboard, never lead potential SOs on, never look on other people as potential sexual conquests and are nice without having expectations.

[The Emerald Legion]

This whole thing is way too heteronormative for me to care about.

You mean gay people aren't like that? I wonder how many people would consider turning gay if they knew that all gay people are honest, aboveboard, never lead potential SOs on, never look on other people as potential sexual conquests and are nice without having expectations.

You forgot your tags.

Here you go.

Code: Select all

[sarcasm][/sarcasm]

[Ostroeuropa]

This whole thing is way too heteronormative for me to care about.

You mean gay people aren't like that? I wonder how many people would consider turning gay if they knew that all gay people are honest, aboveboard, never lead potential SOs on, never look on other people as potential sexual conquests and are nice without having expectations.

Oh no, the "Nice Guys and Gals" do exist in the homosexual communities.

[Page]

This whole thing is way too heteronormative for me to care about.

You mean gay people aren't like that? I wonder how many people would consider turning gay if they knew that all gay people are honest, aboveboard, never lead potential SOs on, never look on other people as potential sexual conquests and are nice without having expectations.

Non-het couples are no better or worse, I just think this particular social sickness is very heteronormative and it just bores me. I am a male in an open relationship with a female partner right now but I think the whole culture of nice guys and cool guys and girls who never pick the right one is just really pretentious and lame.

Believe, of all my friends, the most trainwreck couple are my gay friends. But I just feel when people talk about this, I really can't relate. Not cause I'm polysexual or polyamorous but because I just don't do the whole date scene.

And it is heteronormative. A lot of things are.

[Page]

You mean gay people aren't like that? I wonder how many people would consider turning gay if they knew that all gay people are honest, aboveboard, never lead potential SOs on, never look on other people as potential sexual conquests and are nice without having expectations.

Oh no, the "Nice Guys and Gals" do exist in the homosexual communities.

I think a "nice guy" male partner would be particularly unappealing to me. Though I never make people listen to my problems, I'm always listening to others. Not ever to get in someone's pants though, just cause my friends always seem to appoint me career advice guy, relationship counselor guy, and introspective philosopher's aid guy.

Any male I'd date, I can't deal with him being insecure. I need confidence.

[Choronzon]

All those other men just want women for ONE THING! I want them for...well...one thing but I try and deceive them first! THEY OWE ME!

The focus on how those JERKS want to have SEX with women is one of my favorite parts of the standard "Nice Guy"(TM) rant, since it appears to rest on the hilarious (and super sexist) assumption that good women should be scandalized by men who admit to (gasp!) wanting to have sex with their romantic partners at some point.

Not to mention that its blatantly obvious that its actually the "Nice Guys" who just want ONE THING, as their tantrum and subsequent warpath always shows.

If you really care about the person and sex isn't your primary interest, friendship can be just as rewarding.

[Ostroeuropa]

Oh no, the "Nice Guys and Gals" do exist in the homosexual communities.

I think a "nice guy" male partner would be particularly unappealing to me. Though I never make people listen to my problems, I'm always listening to others. Not ever to get in someone's pants though, just cause my friends always seem to appoint me career advice guy, relationship counselor guy, and introspective philosopher's aid guy.

Any male I'd date, I can't deal with him being insecure. I need confidence.

It's unappealing to straight females and males too. Hence this stereotype.

[The Serbian Empire]

If being "nice" doesn't give any benefits, why be it in the first place?

Because some people aren't arseholes.

That's the thing, some people just can't stomach being an arse so they are nice. It's not that being nice gets them things, but that they have no desire to be mean.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Doesn't make it any less abusive.

Sure, my ex didn't beat me, but she sure as hell did a number with my head. It wasn't for long, but does that make it any less abusive than a husband beating his wife? I still bear my emotional scars from it all.

No, what makes his story less abusive is the fact it wasn't abuse. It has nothing to do with a physical element.

Abuse has to be physical now?

[Mavorpen]

No, what makes his story less abusive is the fact it wasn't abuse. It has nothing to do with a physical element.

Abuse has to be physical now?

It's almost as though you didn't read my post, where I explicitly said the complete opposite. It's okay, I'm used to it.

[Bottle]

I have yet to see any point in being friends with a person who believes that the "friend zone" is a thing.

I'm quite certain that this constitutes an example of irony, as established in the 1996 case of Morissette v. Dictionary.

[Helvereos]

Truly insidious stuff.

[Choronzon]

Truly insidious stuff.

I agree, misogyny can be rather insidious.