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Runaway train in Quebec kills 24, ~25 missing

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Ainin
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Runaway train in Quebec kills 24, ~25 missing

Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:52 pm

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Lac-Mégantic (Population: 6,000)
13+ dead, ~50 missing, 30+ buildings destroyed, around 2,000 evacuated

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The official death toll has grown to five in Lac-Mégantic, Que., one day after a derailed train carrying crude oil exploded in the town’s core, levelling buildings and forcing as many as 2,000 people from their homes.

Quebec provincial police said two more bodies were discovered this morning, in addition to the three that were found overnight in the hardest-hit area in the centre of town.

One death was confirmed Saturday in the town of about 6,000 people, located roughly 250 kilometres east of Montreal.

Police say about 40 people are possibly missing, but have cautioned this number could change.

Officials fear the death toll will rise in the days to come as police sort through dozens of missing person reports filed by friends and family unable to get in contact with loved ones in the chaos Saturday.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair arrived on the scene Sunday morning. He said he just met a 12-year-old girl and her mother. He said they were searching for the girl's father, who had been missing since the explosion.

“Today we’re sharing the pain of the people who are devastated,” he said.

"There are still people who have been reported as missing or unaccounted for," said Sûreté du Québec Lt. Michel Brunet. "We can’t give you a number. We know there will be other deaths. We are aware of that, but we can’t give you any numbers at this time."

The bodies have been transported to Montreal for autopsy. Police would not confirm any details about the deceased or where exactly they were located, saying families are still being contacted.

Fire officials confirmed that three out of the five tankers that were burning had been extinguished with foam. Two more are still on fire and are at risk of explosion.

Police said because of that ongoing situation, they haven't been able to access all areas. However, they did say investigators have been on the scene overnight speaking to witnesses.

Brunet said the area is now considered a crime scene.

"In a fire like this one, where there is major destruction and multiple deaths, the Sûreté du Québec must investigate to see if there are any criminal elements ... so it becomes a crime scene," he said.
Runaway train was parked on hill

The president and CEO of Rail World Inc., the parent company of Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway, said the train was parked uphill of Lac-Mégantic before the incident.

"If brakes aren't properly applied on a train, it's going to run away," Edward Burkhardt told The Canadian Press. "But we think the brakes were properly applied on this train." Burkhardt, who indicated he was mystified by the disaster, said the train was parked because the engineer had finished his run.
Mass evacuations

Many residents who have been forced from their homes are gathering at an evacuation centre set up by the Red Cross at a local school.

Nearly 1,000 people were forced to leave early Saturday morning and another 1,000 were under evacuation orders later that day because of air quality concerns.

"The majority of people have found a place with family and friends," said Myriam Marotte of the Red Cross.

"It's a small community and what we see is a lot of solidarity. People are helping each other."

Last night, 163 people stayed in that emergency shelter. Another 550 registered with the Red Cross so they could be accounted for.

In addition to food and shelter, psychological services are being provided to those who need it in the close-knit community.

"It's difficult for people who still are looking for loved ones," said Marotte. "It's also difficult for people who don't know what is going to happen in the next couple of hours and couple of days. Some people have lost everything."
Dozens still unaccounted for

CBC's Stephen Puddicombe spoke to one woman at that centre who said she hasn't heard from her 17-year-old daughter since the explosion. The girl was in the centre of town, the epicentre of the devastation, when the train derailed at about 1 a.m. Saturday.

An unofficial list of missing persons has been set up online for those still looking for loved ones and friends. Dozens of people once on that list have since been located, according to confirmations submitted online. The list is still more than 200 names long.

Sgt. Grégory Gomez del Prado told CBC Saturday afternoon it's possible up to 100 people could be missing.

Witnesses described the scene as devastating.

"It's a mess," said Lac-Mégantic fire chief Denis Lauzon, who added that many historic buildings and the town's library and archives were destroyed.

Yves Faucher, who lives in the centre of town, was among the first wave of evacuees.

"I saw though my windows, it became bright like the sun. I thought it was an explosion," he said.

He said he tried to warn people to flee rather than stand around and watch the fire, fearing another explosion.

Witnesses reported hearing between five or six blasts as other tankers filled with oil burst.

The Transportation Safety Board of Canada has dispatched investigators to the scene.

The fire has been contained, but has not been fully extinguished.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to be on scene this afternoon.

Source

I think that this accident was just terrible and my thoughts go out to the victims' families. The driverless train, that was carrying Alberta crude to the US, shouldn't have been allowed to go so fast with such a dangerous cargo. The Transport Ministry should bring in tighter regulations on hazardous cargo.

UPDATE ONE: CTV News says the parked train came loose and started rolling down the tracks, causing the explosion.
UPDATE TWO: Evacuation zone extended. 2,500 people (nearly half the town) are now under a mandatory evacuation order.
UPDATE THREE: Four more bodies found :(
Last edited by Ainin on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:20 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:54 pm

Do we have Qubecois generalites and NS'ers?
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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:56 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:Do we have Qubecois generalites and NS'ers?

A couple, yes.
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Postby Avenio » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:51 pm

I'm kind of baffled as to how that train was without a driver at the time. There should be a serious inquiry into this and heads should roll. It's utterly unacceptable.
Last edited by Avenio on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Divair » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:52 pm

Why the fuck was it driverless?

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Postby Cameroi » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

freight switching opperations in many places use remote control. actually one of the oldest places this has been done was somewhere near this area.
in many railway freight yards you will see mention, on signs warning you not to cross, that no one on board switching (shunting) opporations can and do take place there.

derailments are more often the result of failures in the track structure then of opperating error of the equipment.

actual cause of errors are often from conflicting, unclear, or simply ill considered management directives, thought these, as in government, often get passed down to the lowest person who had no real choise in the matter.

i suspect something of that sort will come out of this.

corporate media of course, doesn't like trains, because bankers want to keep everyone indentured to cars.
the absurdity of that in this case is obvious though, as this was clearly a freight movement and no passengers were involved.

i would guess the only as yet known fatalities most likely either employees or trespassers, and as for the 100 missing, this might be a hazmat mismanagement.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

It's a remotely-controlled train.
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Postby Welsh Cowboy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Ainin wrote:
Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

It's a remotely-controlled train.

Are these common in Canada?
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Cameroi wrote:
Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

freight switching opperations in many places use remote control. actually one of the oldest places this has been done was somewhere near this area.
in many railway freight yards you will see mention, on signs warning you not to cross, that no one on board switching (shunting) opporations can and do take place there.

derailments are more often the result of failures in the track structure then of opperating error of the equipment.

actual cause of errors are often from conflicting, unclear, or simply ill considered management directives, thought these, as in government, often get passed down to the lowest person who had no real choise in the matter.

i suspect something of that sort will come out of this.

corporate media of course, doesn't like trains, because bankers want to keep everyone indentured to cars.
the absurdity of that in this case is obvious though, as this was clearly a freight movement and no passengers were involved.

i would guess the only as yet known fatalities most likely either employees or trespassers, and as for the 100 missing, this might be a hazmat mismanagement.

Four train cars exploded in a village centre. That's why there are 100 missing people.
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Postby Divair » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:06 pm

Ainin wrote:
Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

It's a remotely-controlled train.

Clearly it wasn't remotely-controlled well enough.

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Postby The Whispers » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:07 pm

Well this is certainly sad.

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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:09 pm

Welsh Cowboy wrote:
Ainin wrote:It's a remotely-controlled train.

Are these common in Canada?

Yes. Over 75% of the Canadian National Railway's (that pretty much holds a duopoly in freight shipping by rail in Canada) locomotives are remote controlled.
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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:10 pm

Avenio wrote:I'm kind of baffled as to how that train was without a driver at the time. There should be a serious inquiry into this and heads should roll. It's utterly unacceptable.

An inquiry of why there were no people onboard a train designed to carry zero people?
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Postby TaQud » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:10 pm

The Whispers wrote:Well this is certainly sad.
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Postby The Whispers » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:11 pm

Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

For good reasons like "humans operating a set of controls in front of them are far more easily distracted and tired out by all the information on show than a human-assisted computer system".

I don't have statistics on-hand, but I believe 'driverless' trains are broadly significantly safer than crewed ones.

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Postby Welsh Cowboy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:11 pm

Ainin wrote:
Welsh Cowboy wrote:Are these common in Canada?

Yes. Over 75% of the Canadian National Railway's (that pretty much holds a duopoly in freight shipping by rail in Canada) locomotives are remote controlled.

Interesting. I have never seen a remote-controlled train down here in South Carolina, USA. Not saying they don't exist.
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Postby Warda » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:13 pm

Divair wrote:
Ainin wrote:It's a remotely-controlled train.

Clearly it wasn't remotely-controlled well enough.

Most trains with a "driver" are remotely-controlled, they just have a guy pressing the go button.
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Postby Avenio » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:14 pm

Ainin wrote:
Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

It's a remotely-controlled train.


... I guess that makes sense, given the cargo it was carrying.

Mea culpa.
Last edited by Avenio on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Cameroi » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:24 pm

Warda wrote:
Divair wrote:Clearly it wasn't remotely-controlled well enough.

Most trains with a "driver" are remotely-controlled, they just have a guy pressing the go button.

that's a bit of an over simplifiction. a big bit actually. as for not seeing them, a locomotive equiped for remote opperation often appears no different then one that is not. in driverless yard switching, the swichman wears a heavey radio set in front of him with the loco controls on it. other options of course exist, such as control from a switch tower or dispatching center.

trains moving long distances between cities generally do have a crew on board, often a crew of one, the engine opporator and that's it. or two, an engineman and a conductor. completely unmanned opporation is generally limited to switching yards or dedicated lines on which no other form of traffic is also opporated.

again i'm guessing, this is some form of the latter, for transfering these tank cars of this hazardous substance, whatever it is, between industrial sites.
the track going thorough the middle of town is most likely there, because the track was there first, the town grew up around it, and once it had, the cost of relocating the line elsewhere would have been prohibative. i would further hazard a guess, that the reason the town is there, was because most of the first people living there worked at one of the other of these train's destinations, which i would further guess, is located near by.
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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:33 pm

UPDATE: CTV News says derailment was an accident.

Montreal Maine & Atlantic Railway Inc., which owns the train, says the train was unattended and “came loose” overnight.

A representative from the company told CTV News that the trained was parked and secured in Nantes, Que., just west of Lac-Megantic, late Friday night. The two town centres are about 12 kilometres apart.

Joe McGonigle, a vice president at Montreal, Maine & Atlantic, said the train “came loose” between 1 a.m. and 1:30 a.m. on Saturday morning and “started rolling down the tracks.”

He said the train’s engine was found about one kilometre from where the explosions took place.

The train’s conductor, who was at a hotel in Lac-Megantic when the train derailed, is being questioned by police, according to McGonigle.

According to the company’s website, the railway serves Maine, Vermont, Quebec and New Brunswick and owns more than 800 kilometres of rail tracks.
Last edited by Ainin on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Welsh Cowboy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:34 pm

Ainin wrote:UPDATE: CTV News says derailment was an accident.

Montreal Maine & Atlantic Railway Inc., which owns the train, says the train was unattended and “came loose” overnight.

A representative from the company told CTV News that the trained was parked and secured in Nantes, Que., just west of Lac-Megantic, late Friday night. The two town centres are about 12 kilometres apart.

Joe McGonigle, a vice president at Montreal, Maine & Atlantic, said the train “came loose” between 1 a.m. and 1:30 a.m. on Saturday morning and “started rolling down the tracks.”

He said the train’s engine was found about one kilometre from where the explosions took place.

The train’s conductor, who was at a hotel in Lac-Megantic when the train derailed, is being questioned by police, according to McGonigle.

According to the company’s website, the railway serves Maine, Vermont, Quebec and New Brunswick and owns more than 800 kilometres of rail tracks.

The engine was one km away? Wow...
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Postby Breadknife » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:53 pm

Welsh Cowboy wrote:The engine was one km away? Wow...
I'm guessing that's not so much "The engine locomotive was blown a full kilometre away by the explosion" and more "The locomotive continued on for a further kilometre from the site that some/all of the hauled carriages derailed and detatched (or vice-versa) and then exploded".

Pure speculation on my part, though, that.
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Postby Welsh Cowboy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:54 pm

Breadknife wrote:
Welsh Cowboy wrote:The engine was one km away? Wow...
I'm guessing that's not so much "The engine locomotive was blown a full kilometre away by the explosion" and more "The locomotive continued on for a further kilometre from the site that some/all of the hauled carriages derailed and detatched (or vice-versa) and then exploded".

Pure speculation on my part, though, that.

Ah, that makes more sense. The fact that an engine could have flown a kilometer was incredible to me.
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Postby Geilinor » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:55 pm

Divair wrote:Why the fuck was it driverless?

Driverless trains are quite common. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains The vast majority of those trains are for passengers though, not hazardous freight.
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Postby Geilinor » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:57 pm

Ainin wrote:UPDATE: CTV News says derailment was an accident.

Montreal Maine & Atlantic Railway Inc., which owns the train, says the train was unattended and “came loose” overnight.

A representative from the company told CTV News that the trained was parked and secured in Nantes, Que., just west of Lac-Megantic, late Friday night. The two town centres are about 12 kilometres apart.

Joe McGonigle, a vice president at Montreal, Maine & Atlantic, said the train “came loose” between 1 a.m. and 1:30 a.m. on Saturday morning and “started rolling down the tracks.”

He said the train’s engine was found about one kilometre from where the explosions took place.

The train’s conductor, who was at a hotel in Lac-Megantic when the train derailed, is being questioned by police, according to McGonigle.

According to the company’s website, the railway serves Maine, Vermont, Quebec and New Brunswick and owns more than 800 kilometres of rail tracks.

The train was unattended and "came loose"? Don't they keep the trains highly secured?
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