Homosexuals and Marriage: A Constant Battle

[Xavilia]

Okay, greetings everyone and prospective posters! My name is Reza Aryamehr and I am NOT an American, and I have issues understanding why people in America care so much about homosexual marriage. From what I understand you can be gay, but not married in many places of the United States. I agree that is discriminating against gay people, as denying somebody the privileges and split properties of marriage is wrong. Here is what I don't understand:

1. I am a heterosexual man who supports gay marriage, but why is it such a big deal in America when people need to be worrying about the economy and such?
2. I am an Orthodox Christian, and I agree that the Bible is against gay marriage, but who is to say that the United States (a secular country) should be able to deny gay people the right to marry on religious grounds, isn't that against the Constitution?
3. I do NOT believe that churches and other religious organizations should be forced to marry gay people, that is their own choice, but they should be given some sort of a marriage contract.
4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.
(The above, number four, is a personal opinion and discriminatory in of itself, sorry)
5. Why do Americans think that being gay is cool? I went to high school in America and barely anybody talked about gay marriage then, why is it suddenly a big deal?
6. Do you support gay marriage, why or why not?

In my opinion: It is pretty obvious that gay marriage should be legal countrywide as I could personally care less if a gay couple got married, it is not my business. Not allowing someone to get married like this discriminates against that couple, as will not be able to have the same land owning privileges and contracts (dual ownership), that is a disadvantage. If you live in the US, I also do not believe that you have the right to deny someone like this on religious grounds, as the US is a secular state with a separation of church and state, so please do not even tell me you can as that is violating the Constitution. What is furthermore, I do not like gay marriages but IF I was in America where it is suddenly the secular versus the religious, I would be bound by the Constitution to support the gay people.

Please, I would actually like to get a discussion rolling about gay marriage in the United States, PLEASE do not bring other countries into this discussion as I believe that will confuse all of us. Good luck!

[Tsuntion]

1. I am a heterosexual man who supports gay marriage, but why is it such a big deal in America when people need to be worrying about the economy and such?

Because many Evangelical Christians are scared, and there are a lot of them in the US.

2. I am an Orthodox Christian, and I agree that the Bible is against gay marriage, but who is to say that the United States (a secular country) should be able to deny gay people the right to marry on religious grounds, isn't that against the Constitution?

Yep.

3. I do NOT believe that churches and other religious organizations should be forced to marry gay people, that is their own choice, but they should be given some sort of a marriage contract.

Ditto.

4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.
(The above, number four, is a personal opinion and discriminatory in of itself, sorry)

"I do not believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children" is an opinion statement. You can have those and others can disagree but it's just your opinion.

"Children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children" is a fact statement. You are not entitled to your own facts. Turns out, this "fact" is wrong. Children do not need a mother and a father; instead, they need stability and (a) happy parent(s). Children raised by same-sex parents do fine. Sources:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 0903313278
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0905000174
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... .2013-0377
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22157352 and http://www.nllfs.org/images/uploads/pdf ... y-2012.pdf
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/soc/people ... ildren.pdf
http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/ffp10b.pdf
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/12/646 and http://mccaugheycentre.unimelb.edu.au/_ ... eport_.pdf
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm
http://www.livescience.com/6073-childre ... -show.html
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news ... usted-kids
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick- ... 2npxf.html

5. Why do Americans think that being gay is cool? I went to high school in America and barely anybody talked about gay marriage then, why is it suddenly a big deal?

Dominant social issues change. Nowadays, it's a very relevant issue for many people as LGBT folk have come into the mainstream. Also, America has a fairly strong split between gay being cool in some places and horrible in others.

6. Do you support gay marriage, why or why not?

Yes, because gay and bisexual people should be happy and because it harms nobody and because religious laws should not be imposed on others and because marriage isn't necessarily about kids and because etc..

[Hornesia]

Homosexuality may be a sin, but Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, feel free to gay it up.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Homosexuality may be a sin, but Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, feel free to gay it up.

Jesus died to let gay people do their thing? Someone canonise this.

[San Leggera]

1. Because, for whatever reason, some just can't get over the fact that two people of the same gender love each other. Think of the childrinz!
2. Fundamentalists who grasp at straws to preserve tradition, no? Not that their excuse is any more valid, mind.
3. I pretty much agree; churches should be allowed their own decision on the matter instead of being forced one way or another.
4. You're definitely entitled to that opinion, though I vehemently disagree; same-sex couples can't really create a child of their own, so it's a guarantee any they adopt would be loved and raised to the best of their abilities. I doubt having two moms or two dads would destroy a child's future any more than having an absent parent (i.e. single mothers with an abandoning father)
5. More people are starting to realise that same-sex couples have been denied equality for all this time and only now have they decided to do something about it. The more people who come to their senses, the more people who follow.
6. I'm pretty sure you can already tell I'm in support of same-sex marriage.

[Xavilia]

1. I am a heterosexual man who supports gay marriage, but why is it such a big deal in America when people need to be worrying about the economy and such?

Because many Evangelical Christians are scared, and there are a lot of them in the US.

2. I am an Orthodox Christian, and I agree that the Bible is against gay marriage, but who is to say that the United States (a secular country) should be able to deny gay people the right to marry on religious grounds, isn't that against the Constitution?

Yep.

3. I do NOT believe that churches and other religious organizations should be forced to marry gay people, that is their own choice, but they should be given some sort of a marriage contract.

Ditto.

4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.
(The above, number four, is a personal opinion and discriminatory in of itself, sorry)

"I do not believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children" is an opinion statement. You can have those and others can disagree but it's just your opinion.

"Children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children" is a fact statement. You are not entitled to your own facts. Turns out, this "fact" is wrong. Children do not need a mother and a father; instead, they need stability and (a) happy parent(s). Children raised by same-sex parents do fine. Sources:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 0903313278
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0905000174
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... .2013-0377
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22157352 and http://www.nllfs.org/images/uploads/pdf ... y-2012.pdf
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/soc/people ... ildren.pdf
http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/ffp10b.pdf
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/12/646 and http://mccaugheycentre.unimelb.edu.au/_ ... eport_.pdf
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm
http://www.livescience.com/6073-childre ... -show.html
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news ... usted-kids
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick- ... 2npxf.html

5. Why do Americans think that being gay is cool? I went to high school in America and barely anybody talked about gay marriage then, why is it suddenly a big deal?

Dominant social issues change. Nowadays, it's a very relevant issue for many people as LGBT folk have come into the mainstream. Also, America has a fairly strong split between gay being cool in some places and horrible in others.

6. Do you support gay marriage, why or why not?

Yes, because gay and bisexual people should be happy and because it harms nobody and because religious laws should not be imposed on others and because marriage isn't necessarily about kids and because etc..

Thank you, I am starting to understand it a little better! I wish that I could have got a discussion going though, all of my posts fail. xD

[Yaltabaoth]

Homosexuality may be a sin, but Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, feel free to gay it up.

Jesus died to let gay people do their thing? Someone canonise this.

Gives the "Spear of Longinus" a whole new perspective...

[Phocidaea]

1. Because "teh economeh" is actually not horrible. It could definitely be better, but people need to stop pretending it's still 2008.
2. It's debatable whether it's against the first amendment, but yes. The United States is a secular country, and the opponents of same-sex marriage who claim otherwise are sadly too numerous to change the minds of.
3. And they won't be under any sane SSM law. That's a breach of the first amendment - not to mention that it's unlikely two gays would want to marry in a church that doesn't like them.
4. [citation needed]
5. I don't think "being gay is cool". I think it's a thing that happens. And barely anyone talked about gay marriage whenever you were in high school because such a thing was probably still taboo - most of the progress on the issue has been over the last... well, really, five or six years.
6. Yes. Equality under the law and all that.

[Emmadog]

Homosexuality may be a sin, but Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, feel free to gay it up.

Jesus died so your sins could be forgiven when you earnestly repent, it s not a free pass to sin and "gay it up"

[Welshistan]

Marriage is a repressive and sexist institution, and I don't see why anyone would want to participate in it besides for the obvious economic benefits that should be granted to everyone anyways.

[Tubbsalot]

Jesus died to let gay people do their thing? Someone canonise this.

Prometheus gave us fire, Jesus came later and had to settle for the second most flaming option?

[Ifreann]

Okay, greetings everyone and prospective posters! My name is Reza Aryamehr and I am NOT an American, and I have issues understanding why people in America care so much about homosexual marriage. From what I understand you can be gay, but not married in many places of the United States. I agree that is discriminating against gay people, as denying somebody the privileges and split properties of marriage is wrong. Here is what I don't understand:

1. I am a heterosexual man who supports gay marriage, but why is it such a big deal in America when people need to be worrying about the economy and such?

There are over 1000 rights and responsibilities related to legal marriage in the US, not to mention the whole thing where equality is important itself.

---

Homosexuality may be a sin, but Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, feel free to gay it up.

Jesus died so your sins could be forgiven when you earnestly repent, it s not a free pass to sin and "gay it up"

As the man said, Jesus died for somebody's sins, but God knows he didn't die for mine.

[Tubbsalot]

4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.

You are literally the first person I've ever seen who thought it was vitally important for gender roles to be upheld.

Out of curiosity, what feature of female biology makes playing with dolls a requirement?

[Yaltabaoth]

Homosexuality may be a sin, but Jesus died for your sins. Therefore, feel free to gay it up.

Jesus died so your sins could be forgiven when you earnestly repent, it s not a free pass to sin and "gay it up"

Cthulhu died for our sins, now we must await the alignment of the stars and R'lyeh will rise again.

[Ifreann]

4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.

You are literally the first person I've ever seen who thought it was vitally important for gender roles to be upheld.

Out of curiosity, what feature of female biology makes playing with dolls a requirement?

Dolls teach women's bodies the shape to grow towards when they hit puberty. A woman's figure at 25 is a reflection of the dolls she played with at 5. *nods*

[San Leggera]

4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.

You are literally the first person I've ever seen who thought it was vitally important for gender roles to be upheld.

Out of curiosity, what feature of female biology makes playing with dolls a requirement?

Skirts. sarcasm

[Xavilia]

4. I do NOT believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children because the children are denied the critical gender roles that a heterosexual couple has, thus having damaging results on young children.

You are literally the first person I've ever seen who thought it was vitally important for gender roles to be upheld.

Out of curiosity, what feature of female biology makes playing with dolls a requirement?

I do not take it to that extreme, friend. I think it is important for the gender roles of the parents to be upheld so that the child doesn't turn out wrong as well. I don't know, I just think that without gender roles the child becomes more inclined to follow down their parents path of homosexuality, and I do not like gay people THAT much. xD

[San Leggera]

You are literally the first person I've ever seen who thought it was vitally important for gender roles to be upheld.

Out of curiosity, what feature of female biology makes playing with dolls a requirement?

I do not take it to that extreme, friend. I think it is important for the gender roles of the parents to be upheld so that the child doesn't turn out wrong as well. I don't know, I just think that without gender roles the child becomes more inclined to follow down their parents path of homosexuality, and I do not like gay people THAT much. xD

Meh, sexuality isn't really a concious choice.

[Tubbsalot]

Dolls teach women's bodies the shape to grow towards when they hit puberty. A woman's figure at 25 is a reflection of the dolls she played with at 5. *nods*

Oh... are you saying my rippling pecs are just because I played with action figures as a kid?

I guess that would also explain the smooth, featureless bulge at my crotch.

I do not take it to that extreme, friend. I think it is important for the gender roles of the parents to be upheld so that the child doesn't turn out wrong as well. I don't know, I just think that without gender roles the child becomes more inclined to follow down their parents path of homosexuality, and I do not like gay people THAT much. xD

It's all well and good to have an opinion, but when that's all you have, you probably shouldn't consider your opinion to be worth very much.

[Kaamnaayein]

I've always thought it was a little bit gay when conservatives constantly talk about men having sex with each other _{and how they totally think it's wrong... right guys? Right???}

[Ifreann]

You are literally the first person I've ever seen who thought it was vitally important for gender roles to be upheld.

Out of curiosity, what feature of female biology makes playing with dolls a requirement?

I do not take it to that extreme, friend. I think it is important for the gender roles of the parents to be upheld so that the child doesn't turn out wrong as well. I don't know, I just think that without gender roles the child becomes more inclined to follow down their parents path of homosexuality, and I do not like gay people THAT much. xD

You don't like gay people at all if you think their very existence is wrong.

[Riojasia]

Biologically, men have the male "G-spot" where the sun doesn't shine (the prostate gland, also referred to as the "P-spot"). Biblically God created us in his image. According to the religious "organisations" who are against SSM, a lot of them also don't believe in evolution. So it can be said that God created the P-spot and then man hasn't really evolved from there.

So if God created this place for men to have pleasure, why can't it be used? Especially since a lot of women (that I know) don't want to go up there. Surely this is a free pass to gay it up?

[Ifreann]

Dolls teach women's bodies the shape to grow towards when they hit puberty. A woman's figure at 25 is a reflection of the dolls she played with at 5. *nods*

Oh... are you saying my rippling pecs are just because I played with action figures as a kid?

I guess that would also explain the smooth, featureless bulge at my crotch.

Bingo.

[Emmadog]

I do not take it to that extreme, friend. I think it is important for the gender roles of the parents to be upheld so that the child doesn't turn out wrong as well. I don't know, I just think that without gender roles the child becomes more inclined to follow down their parents path of homosexuality, and I do not like gay people THAT much. xD

You don't like gay people at all if you think their very existence is wrong.

The problem is homosexuality not homosexuals

[Tubbsalot]

You don't like gay people at all if you think their very existence is wrong.

Well, give him some credit, he at least accepts that gay marriage should be a thing. He acknowledges they're not some existential threat to be stamped out at all costs.