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Does God Exist?

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:22 pm

Dragomere wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
That doesn't mean that religion can be scientific. Also, the bible is not the only book out there that has recorded events proven by science. The Popol Vuh of the Inca does too. As well as several Native American legends. Do you see them attempting to turn religion into science?


One of the few things that can not be proven by science is: the existence of God himself.


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Lake Gaston
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lake Gaston » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:22 pm

Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:

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Warda
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Postby Warda » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:23 pm

The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace wrote:
Dragomere wrote:
Science can prove must of what was recorded in the Bible.

Exodus is a pile of bullshit.

Come at me bro.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus
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Hydronium
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hydronium » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:23 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Hydronium wrote:Where in Ezekiel does it say that? I mean, what verse?

Examples of Messianic Prophecy in the Book of Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 37:26-28
Ezekiel 34:11-31
Ezekiel 34:23-24



I carefully read the 3 verses and honestly got scared for a second. Then I remembered that Jesus will return to earth to establish His millennial kingdom. During that time, the few people that posed a threat to the New Jerusalem would be scattered, and then there would be peace, since the Lord would be with his people (until the end of the millennial kingdom, at least. Then they would surround Jerusalem. But Jesus would rescue his people.) Also, in Revelation, John said that the glory of the Lord and the Lamb (Jesus) would be the temple. I can give you verses.

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:24 pm

Lake Gaston wrote:Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:

Firstly, Christianity is the largest religion.

Secondly, as most NSGers are American or British, and Christianity is by far the most popular faith in these countries, we debate it here as opposed to Islam, which comparatively few NSGers believe.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
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Viseria
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Postby Viseria » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:24 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Viseria wrote:If I need to justify there is a god, I am doing it wrong. (Faith-based issue)


Faith is unscientific. Promoting faith in any manner over reason in logic is detrimental to our advancement as a species.

Viseria wrote:If you 'don't need' to justify that there is not a god, you are both not using scientific means and are doing something wrong.


Null hypothesis. The argument which makes the fewest and smallest assumptions is the most likely. We revert to the hypothesis of "no god" until a god is proven to exist.

Also, the burden of proof is on the holder of a belief, not on the skeptic. Otherwise I could establish a church based around the Invisible Pink Unicorn and claim it to be a valid, real religion. No proof that IPU doesn't exist; thus, it must exist.

Viseria wrote:So yeah. God may or may not exist, but I'm going with the safer bet and with the thing that makes sense to me.


Pascal's Wager, your so-called 'safer bet', is a logical fallacy.

As far as 'faith based issue' I was in no way implying anything except that it would be against the very definition of faith to feel the need to justify myself.
I am aware of the 'fewest and smallest' concept. It's nothing new. However, working around the very concept of a supreme creator reduces the amount of assumptions and the size of such in many other areas.
A single large, well backed, 'assumption' to reduce the size and concept of many others.

The burden of anything falls on the challenger, that's an inherent trait of Human culture. The weight falls on those who have decided to change beliefs and portray their opinions (or fact).

As far as Pascal's Wager? That's not relevant seeing as I am clearly basing the decision off of other factors then a single percentage. As well, I have seen no proof of it being a logical fallacy. However (Spoiler below)
It's not the Wager itself, per se (although the Wager fails to take into account the possibility of a non-Christian God who demands belief specifically in himself), but the way it's used on the site.

The original Wager was an exercise in game theory. All well and good. But people who use it act as if "You should believe just in case" is a good argument for belief. It's not.
explains exactly why I wasn't using it- I am not implying I should 'believe just in case'.

tl;dr, I am not an idiot and people acting as though everyone is under one sweeping generalization or another is bad.
I am not saying you did this in any way, but I figured I'd put that in at some point.
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Last edited by Viseria on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Holy Michigan Empire
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Postby The Holy Michigan Empire » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:25 pm

Lake Gaston wrote:Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:


Shamanism is kind of hard to defend.

Maybe because I am not a shaman myself, so thus I cannot prove to you the existence of the otter spirits.

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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:27 pm

Lake Gaston wrote:Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:


The existence of the Divine Claudius is utterly without doubt, so obviously the argument will shift to whether or not the impious Galileans' religion is true.

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The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace
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Postby The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:27 pm

The Holy Michigan Empire wrote:
Lake Gaston wrote:Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:


Shamanism is kind of hard to defend.

Maybe because I am not a shaman myself, so thus I cannot prove to you the existence of the otter spirits.

Nah, you can at least verify that for yourself if you go to people who know what they're doing.

Not saying it would work or not, but at the very least, people can prove their stuff on Earth than just go by faith.
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Hydronium
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Postby Hydronium » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Lake Gaston wrote:Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:

Firstly, Christianity is the largest religion.

Secondly, as most NSGers are American or British, and Christianity is by far the most popular faith in these countries, we debate it here as opposed to Islam, which comparatively few NSGers believe.


You kind of missed out on the Islam conversation.
Last edited by Hydronium on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Dragomere wrote:yes, Noah's Ark, the Plagues of Egypt, The crossing of the Reed Sea, ect., all can be proven by science.

One question. Where did all that damn water come from?
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Dragomere wrote:yes, Noah's Ark, the Plagues of Egypt, The crossing of the Reed Sea, ect., all can be proven by science.


Perhaps they can be.

It hasn't happened yet, but maybe they can.
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Lake Gaston
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Postby Lake Gaston » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Lake Gaston wrote:Just wondering, why are we obsessing about Christianity? There are plenty of other religions too. :palm:

Firstly, Christianity is the largest religion.

Secondly, as most NSGers are American or British, and Christianity is by far the most popular faith in these countries, we debate it here as opposed to Islam, which comparatively few NSGers believe.

At one point, there was another religion that was the biggest In the world, does that mean it doesn't exist and what they worshipped was false, just because no one believes in it anymore?

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Shaggai
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Postby Shaggai » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:29 pm

Hydronium wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Firstly, Christianity is the largest religion.

Secondly, as most NSGers are American or British, and Christianity is by far the most popular faith in these countries, we debate it here as opposed to Islam, which comparatively few NSGers believe.


You kind of missed out on the Islam conversation.

There was none. You showed that the Qur'an had contradictions with history. I showed that the Bible had contradictions with history. The only thing at all close to a conversation was the thing about extremists.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:29 pm

Lake Gaston wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Firstly, Christianity is the largest religion.

Secondly, as most NSGers are American or British, and Christianity is by far the most popular faith in these countries, we debate it here as opposed to Islam, which comparatively few NSGers believe.

At one point, there was another religion that was the biggest In the world, does that mean it doesn't exist and what they worshipped was false, just because no one believes in it anymore?

No, it's false for other reasons, just like Christianity.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
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Lake Gaston
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Postby Lake Gaston » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:30 pm

Again I ask. Religions seem to come and go if you look far back enough, does that mean that those people didn't worship the right god? Does that god really exist than? :bow:

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:32 pm

Abritus wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:We're still waiting for someone to present verifiable evidence of your "god's" existence.

Go read the bible.

I have read the bible. It is not verifiable evidence of your "god's" existence.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:32 pm

Lake Gaston wrote:Again I ask. Religions seem to come and go if you look far back enough, does that mean that those people didn't worship the right god? Does that god really exist than? :bow:

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:No, it's false for other reasons, just like Christianity.

Also, there's no reason to worship me, I'm only two thirds god.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:33 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:We're still waiting for someone to present verifiable evidence of your "god's" existence.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Yes, actually it is. It isn't proof of absence, but it is evidence of it.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
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Lake Gaston
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Postby Lake Gaston » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:33 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Lake Gaston wrote:At one point, there was another religion that was the biggest In the world, does that mean it doesn't exist and what they worshipped was false, just because no one believes in it anymore?

No, it's false for other reasons, just like Christianity.


Saying its false is more opinion than fact, don't you think? There is no solid evidence that, yes it's real or, no it's not.

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:34 pm

Dragomere wrote:
Cosmicus wrote:...
What in the actual fuck?


Science can prove must of what was recorded in the Bible.

No, science proves that most of the supposed occurrences in the bible did not happen. Try again.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:35 pm

Dragomere wrote:yes, Noah's Ark, the Plagues of Egypt, The crossing of the Reed Sea, ect., all can be proven by science.

Then do so.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:35 pm

Lake Gaston wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:No, it's false for other reasons, just like Christianity.


Saying its false is more opinion than fact, don't you think? There is no solid evidence that, yes it's real or, no it's not.

You can examine various factors as well as historical evidence to come to the conclusion that it is basically false. True, you can't say with absolute certainty, but that goes for everything.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
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Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Viseria
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Postby Viseria » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm ragequitting this thread because I'm too distracted to actually put in a serious reply.
By the way, Mario is apparently communist.

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Shaggai
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Postby Shaggai » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:35 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Lake Gaston wrote:Again I ask. Religions seem to come and go if you look far back enough, does that mean that those people didn't worship the right god? Does that god really exist than? :bow:

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:No, it's false for other reasons, just like Christianity.

Also, there's no reason to worship me, I'm only two thirds god.

You heard him, folks. All of you people who were worshiping him: how about worshiping a god who doesn't care? Nyarlathotep is the god for you!
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