The AK-47 vs the AR-15

[Lemanrussland]

Well, America and its NATO allies use standardized rounds so they can share mags, can not blame them for wanting the Brit rifle to be able to use the same mags.

That must be why SIG 550-series, AUG-series, G36-series, and Beryl magazines are all proprietary.

The magazines are not compatible, but those all use NATO ammunition.

Honestly, the USGI STANAG magazines are not that good, and a weak point in the design of the AR-15/M-16 series of rifles. I can see why some countries didn't bother with them.

[New Maldorainia]

That must be why SIG 550-series, AUG-series, G36-series, and Beryl magazines are all proprietary.

The magazines are not compatible, but those all use NATO ammunition.

Honestly, the USGI STANAG magazines are not that good, and a weak point in the design of the AR-15/M-16 series of rifles. I can see why some countries didn't bother with them.

Yeah, was reading about that recently.

[Lemanrussland]

There is also a monetary incentive for companies like H&K to make proprietary magazines -- so the German Army and others are forced to buy the magazines from them at marked up prices. H&K does this with many accoutrements for their products.

For example, there is one overpriced proprietary tool to adjust zero on a drum sight, and another super overpriced tool to change the barrel extension on the HK416.

[Spreewerke]

That must be why SIG 550-series, AUG-series, G36-series, and Beryl magazines are all proprietary.

You are aware that the Steyr is Austrian and Austria is not a NATO member right?

Oh, forgive me. The Australians call it something else, don't they? My sincerest apologies.

Doesn't change the fact that Germany, Australia, Italy, Poland, Finland, Switzerland, Czech Republic, and many others don't use STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines. Is 5.56x45mm NATO the standard intermediate? You betcha. Is the AR-profile STANAG the NATO-standard magazine? Nope.

[Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf]

AK pwns the AR

[The platforms of Hetalia7]

The AR-15 without a doubt.

[New Maldorainia]

You are aware that the Steyr is Austrian and Austria is not a NATO member right?

Oh, forgive me. The Australians call it something else, don't they? My sincerest apologies.

Doesn't change the fact that Germany, Australia, Italy, Poland, Finland, Switzerland, Czech Republic, and many others don't use STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines. Is 5.56x45mm NATO the standard intermediate? You betcha. Is the AR-profile STANAG the NATO-standard magazine? Nope.

Are you confusing Austria with Australia?

[Dictatoriate]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

[Spreewerke]

Oh, forgive me. The Australians call it something else, don't they? My sincerest apologies.

Doesn't change the fact that Germany, Australia, Italy, Poland, Finland, Switzerland, Czech Republic, and many others don't use STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines. Is 5.56x45mm NATO the standard intermediate? You betcha. Is the AR-profile STANAG the NATO-standard magazine? Nope.

Are you confusing Austria with Australia?

No.

However, I appear to have confused "NATO Ally" with "NATO Member," here, so I will apologize for any arrogance I might have displayed there. Total derp on my part, but I believe my point still stands with other true NATO members who do not issue STANAG magazines.

EDIT TO ADD: You know what, I'm derping hardcore here, and am really going off-topic. I'mma just drop it here. Again, my apologies.

ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting

skeet shooting

wat

Do you know what skeet shooting is?

[Puzikas]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

I don't even know were to start with that comment.

[Transnapastain]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

I don't even know were to start with that comment.

I second the speechlessness.

Because using a rifle, or even a carbine, makes so much sense. You don't want high velocity rounds that can, and will, over penetrate. Lets say you miss, hell, lets say you don't, and that bullets happens to travel through a wall, or through your target, and into someone else.

Doesn't matter why you were shooting. You just murdered that second person. Thats exactly how the law is going to view it, because that's exactly what happened.

Do you know what IS good for home defense?

A shotgun. Be it in 20 or 12 gauge. Some people prefer .410....you could, in theory, get an AR-15 platform that shoot .410.

Also, that sound. its very true that the sound of a shotgun being primed is a good deterrent. it's not uncommon to scare the intruder out of your home without ever even seeing them or firing a shot.

Edit: According to Spree, 5.56 is actually a decent home defense round, so long as its the type of round that'll fragment on impact. Fine. I still prefer a shot gun for such things While pellets may penn a wall, they more than likely aren't going to go much further.

Also, the court aspect which was just pointed out. Keeping an "assault weapon" around for "Defense" is going to look awesome on you in court...except its not. its going to look like you wanted to kill someone, and that appearance will never do anything good for you.

Moving on...

Why does the AR-15 being accurate at long range make it a good home defense gun, do you live in a football field?

While its true AK parts are not hard to come by, you general find stock sets and rail devices. AR's are, however, not hard to find parts for. Also a wider variety of parts is available for AR's, due to the modularity of the platform. New uppers, new lowers. We're not even going to discuss accessories, because anything rail mounted can go on anything with rails...and both AR's and AK's can have rails.

How...in the hell...is an AR good for skeet shooting. I refer you back to the shot gun....or that AR in ,410.

[Dictatoriate]

I don't know anything about guns I'm sorry. I was just spouting off something my brother said.

[Transnapastain]

I don't know anything about guns I'm sorry. I was just spouting off something my brother said.

Heh, probably not the best thing to do around General.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

Rifles aren't used for skeet shooting, shotguns are.

[New West Britain]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

wut lol. First off, Skeet shooting uses Shot guns, not any kind of rifle, you idiot. Secondly...an AR-15...for home defense...you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you? an AR-15 will kill your intruder. those are high velocity rounds. killing an intruder with a semi-auto rifle will land you in the stony lonesome, bud. indefensible on a legal basis. Personally, i think both the AK and AR are deadly machines in their own right, But I prefer the AR platform. If you are going to come on a GUN forum...do your research first, man. lol

[Transnapastain]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

wut lol. First off, Skeet shooting uses Shot guns, not any kind of rifle, you idiot. Secondly...an AR-15...for home defense...you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you? an AR-15 will kill your intruder. those are high velocity rounds. killing an intruder with a semi-auto rifle will land you in the stony lonesome, bud. indefensible on a legal basis. Personally, i think both the AK and AR are deadly machines in their own right, But I prefer the AR platform. If you are going to come on a GUN forum...do your research first, man. lol

*** Warned for flaming....yourself ***

That really was special. Coming back into the thread with a puppet and correcting yourself. Lets not continue this pattern of behavior, okay? its spamming and it won't be tolerated.

And on this off and unlikely chance is "this your brother", and we both know its not, don't we? You...I mean "he"...is still warned for flaming.

[Spreewerke]

Depends on what you're going to use it for. if it's for home defense, Ar-15s are the way to go. They're very accurate at long range, and can easily be modified. The Ak-47 is clunky and less accurate, but they're dead reliable and you can find parts for them anywhere. ARs are good for home defense or skeet shooting, But Aks are more just a "fun" gun you shoot for the sake of shooting. They're also highly collectible...

wut lol. First off, Skeet shooting uses Shot guns, not any kind of rifle, you idiot. Secondly...an AR-15...for home defense...you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

No. An AR-15 utilizing 55gr.-or-below ballistic tips or XM193-type FMJ is a perfectly fine HD cartridge. Due to its high velocity and inherent fragmenting nature, the 5.56 cartridge is capable of less penetration, on average, than 00 Buckshot. See? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Aq3INocE28

an AR-15 will kill your intruder. those are high velocity rounds. killing an intruder with a semi-auto rifle will land you in the stony lonesome, bud. indefensible on a legal basis.

Actually, it is the ONLY defensible home-defense-shooting scenario. If you shoot to maim or use non/less-lethal cartridges, you are getting your next boyfriend inside an 8'x8' room. Why? If you intentionally shoot to maim or flat-out not kill someone, then your reasoning for that is because you were not in a life-or-death situation, and therefore should not have even pulled the trigger. If you kill them, it is defensible by stating that you were in true fear of your life (or others' lives). Using less-lethal is a sure-ticket to Prisontown.

Personally, i think both the AK and AR are deadly machines in their own right, But I prefer the AR platform. If you are going to come on a GUN forum...do your research first, man. lol

NationStates is not /r/guns nor /k/ or anything of that nature.

[Lamplight Caverns]

I love the horrible "Deadliest Warrior" introduction to each weapon.

Anyways, AK series will beat out any other assault rifle, in my opinion, especially the modern varieties.

[Neo Arcad]

The supposed problems found in the Kalashnikov have been largely solved in the Saiga series civilian versions (when properly cleaned and maintained), which, coincidentally, also happen to fire a wider variety of rounds, making them more than a match for the AR-15. I prefer the .223 Remi version, because it's lighter than the 7.62x39 Soviet, but can do the same job. IMHO, heavier rounds like the .308 Win deserve a larger platform like the Tigr series. It works in the Kalash, but that rifle was designed for more intermediate rounds.

[New West Britain]

wut lol. First off, Skeet shooting uses Shot guns, not any kind of rifle, you idiot. Secondly...an AR-15...for home defense...you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

No. An AR-15 utilizing 55gr.-or-below ballistic tips or XM193-type FMJ is a perfectly fine HD cartridge. Due to its high velocity and inherent fragmenting nature, the 5.56 cartridge is capable of less penetration, on average, than 00 Buckshot. See? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Aq3INocE28

an AR-15 will kill your intruder. those are high velocity rounds. killing an intruder with a semi-auto rifle will land you in the stony lonesome, bud. indefensible on a legal basis.

Actually, it is the ONLY defensible home-defense-shooting scenario. If you shoot to maim or use non/less-lethal cartridges, you are getting your next boyfriend inside an 8'x8' room. Why? If you intentionally shoot to maim or flat-out not kill someone, then your reasoning for that is because you were not in a life-or-death situation, and therefore should not have even pulled the trigger. If you kill them, it is defensible by stating that you were in true fear of your life (or others' lives). Using less-lethal is a sure-ticket to Prisontown.

I suppose. But I would think in states that don't have "stand your ground" laws, you could still technically have been charged with manslaughter, even if it was in self-defense. Not saying I agree with that, but the law is the law.

[Spreewerke]

The supposed problems found in the Kalashnikov have been largely solved in the Saiga series civilian versions (when properly cleaned and maintained),

No? What problems were there? The AK has worked just fine since the mid-'50s. The AKM introduced a cheaper way to make it, and the AK-74 series introduced some parts to make it a little more reliable extraction-wise, a better folding stock, and a more effective muzzle device. Yeah, the 90* gas port gave the port itself a little more service life, but that's really about it. The Saigas are just '100-series spec, which basically introduces better build material quality.

which, coincidentally, also happen to fire a wider variety of rounds, making them more than a match for the AR-15. I prefer the .223 Remi version, because it's lighter than the 7.62x39 Soviet, but can do the same job.

Except for that it can't.

IMHO, heavier rounds like the .308 Win deserve a larger platform like the Tigr series. It works in the Kalash, but that rifle was designed for more intermediate rounds.

Fair enough, but just because the "Kalash" was designed with intermediates in mind doesn't mean it can't handle larger rounds. What if I told you the SKS's closest ancestor fired a 14.5x114mm cartridge? Why would I tell you this? Because it does/did. That said, the Saigas in .308 are alright, but, honestly, I'd say the VEPRs in that cartridge and/or 7.62x54mmR will perform better.

I suppose. But I would think in states that don't have "stand your ground" laws, you could still technically have been charged with manslaughter, even if it was in self-defense. Not saying I agree with that, but the law is the law.

No matter what way you look at it, when you use a firearm for home defense, "dead" is better than "shot them to maim them and make them suffer on purpose" or "shot them with non-lethal because I'm trigger happy and my life wasn't in immediate danger."

[United states of brazilian nations]

depends on what environment you are.
if i were in jungle conditions (like most of brazil here) i'd go with the AK series, preferably the AKM or the AK-74M, because they're accurate enough at short to medium ranges, have better firepower, lose less velocity when in contact with all the leafs, and is much more reliable than the AR series.
if i were fighting in desert conditions, then i'd be divided between the AK-74M and the M16A4. while the 74M is much more reliable, the M16 is much more accurate and you can easily mount a scope so you can deliver more accurate shots. so again, it depends on what situation you're fighting.
if i were in urban conditions, i'd most likely use an M16A4 or a carbine variant such as the M4A1. they are more accurate and in urban environments there are less things that can make your rifle jam.
however, if i were part of a vehicle crew, i'd surely go for the AKS-74U. compact, light and extremely reliable, even though accuracy is not very good. however, it is still quite acceptable at short ranges.

so my overall best weapon is the AK-74M. most of the standard 5.45x39mm rounds have a "tumbling" effect, making it devastating against flesh, at the cost of penetration. it is more accurate and have less recoil than the AKM, the adjustable iron sights look easy to adjust, it is extremely reliable and some of them feature a folding stock, allowing for a more compact weapon.

anyways, if you've chosen the AR-15 because you can stick a sight on it, you can always buy a good set of rails for your AK, though i prefer the "original" style. just be sure to not buy Tapco.

i'm no firearms expert, i'm no firearms collector, i'm just a firearms enthusiast in a country where one is not allowed to possess a firearm. so, if i said anything wrong, please correct me.

[New Maldorainia]

There are AR styled rifles that are good for plinking, they come in .22 long rifle, made by Mossberg.

[Bacopa]

AK pwns the AR

I agree

[New Maldorainia]

depends on what environment you are.
if i were in jungle conditions (like most of brazil here) i'd go with the AK series, preferably the AKM or the AK-74M, because they're accurate enough at short to medium ranges, have better firepower, lose less velocity when in contact with all the leafs, and is much more reliable than the AR series.
if i were fighting in desert conditions, then i'd be divided between the AK-74M and the M16A4. while the 74M is much more reliable, the M16 is much more accurate and you can easily mount a scope so you can deliver more accurate shots. so again, it depends on what situation you're fighting.
if i were in urban conditions, i'd most likely use an M16A4 or a carbine variant such as the M4A1. they are more accurate and in urban environments there are less things that can make your rifle jam.
however, if i were part of a vehicle crew, i'd surely go for the AKS-74U. compact, light and extremely reliable, even though accuracy is not very good. however, it is still quite acceptable at short ranges.

so my overall best weapon is the AK-74M. most of the standard 5.45x39mm rounds have a "tumbling" effect, making it devastating against flesh, at the cost of penetration. it is more accurate and have less recoil than the AKM, the adjustable iron sights look easy to adjust, it is extremely reliable and some of them feature a folding stock, allowing for a more compact weapon.

anyways, if you've chosen the AR-15 because you can stick a sight on it, you can always buy a good set of rails for your AK, though i prefer the "original" style. just be sure to not buy Tapco.

i'm no firearms expert, i'm no firearms collector, i'm just a firearms enthusiast in a country where one is not allowed to possess a firearm. so, if i said anything wrong, please correct me.

Well, it is more then the sights on the AR, you can switch out the barrels for different ammo sizes, and customize it to fit your taste, which is what I enjoy, but yes for the most part you are correct.