Should Pluto be a Planet?

[Galborg]

Do you really think NdGT will stop after he Death Stars Pluto?

Of course he plans to nuke Earth.

I would plan to nuke Earth if I were an evil priest too.

[New Carloso]

We all know that Pluto's moon Charon is a...

Actually ditch that. I was going to say mass relay.

It is technically considered a dwarf planet too?

[Olthar]

I wish I could say that I've never seen someone so willfully and unabashedly reject science, but I'd, sadly, be wrong. This isn't at all surprising, more par for the course.

Yes, because as we all know, only following the current consensus is exactly what science is all about. *nods*

Until new facts are discovered, the current consensus is very much assumed to be correct. There would be no point if science always doubted everything it says.

There will be no dissent!

"Dissent" in science is created with the intent of changing the status quo to be more correct than it previously was, not holding onto outdated beliefs. I can only hope that a day soon comes when people who believe Pluto is a planet are seen in the same light as people who believe Earth is flat.

[Utceforp]

Do you really think NdGT will stop after he Death Stars Pluto?

Of course he plans to nuke Earth.

I would plan to nuke Earth if I were an evil priest too.

Is this supposed to be some kind of analogy, or do you actually believe that because Pluto was changed to a Dwarf Planet it means it's going to be blown up? this isn't sarcasm, I am honestly curious.

[Olthar]

We all know that Pluto's moon Charon is a...

Actually ditch that. I was going to say mass relay.

It is technically considered a dwarf planet too?

No. It's a moon.

[Meryuma]

Think about it this way: a dwarf planet has all the advantages of planets and dwarves!

+

=

[Olthar]

Think about it this way: a dwarf planet has all the advantages of planets and dwarves!

(Image)

+

(Image)

=

(Image)

Yep. Now Pluto gets a racial bonus on all fortitude saves against poison. That's a pretty handy thing to have. Plus, darkvision is always nice, especially with it being so far away from the sun.

[Fartsniffage]

Yes, because as we all know, only following the current consensus is exactly what science is all about. *nods*

There will be no dissent!

Ah, I understand your sarcasm! Science isn't about only following the current consensus, it's about following the past consensus and ignoring the present consensus! *nods*

There will be nao changes tu teh nostalgia!

Look at it this way. The label "planet" is completely artificial. It's a vague convenience that would be completely ignored by anyone actively involved in the study of the various objects orbiting the Sun. It's not going to change the science one jot.

Think about this, the difference between Jupiter and Mercury is far greater than that between Mars and Pluto, both in size and composition but Mercury and Jupiter are both given the classification planet based on some random criteria. Does that mean that the chaps sending probes to buzz Mercury and Jupiter both use the same equipment and mission parameters?

[Olthar]

Ah, I understand your sarcasm! Science isn't about only following the current consensus, it's about following the past consensus and ignoring the present consensus! *nods*

There will be nao changes tu teh nostalgia!

Look at it this way. The label "planet" is completely artificial. It's a vague convenience that would be completely ignored by anyone actively involved in the study of the various objects orbiting the Sun. It's not going to change the science one jot.

Think about this, the difference between Jupiter and Mercury is far greater than that between Mars and Pluto, both in size and composition but Mercury and Jupiter are both given the classification planet based on some random criteria. Does that mean that the chaps sending probes to buzz Mercury and Jupiter both use the same equipment and mission parameters?

Classification is quite important in science. Biology has one of the most complex classification systems in the entire world, and every creature on the planet is given half a dozen names just to identify it, all of which are quite important. You wouldn't ask a biologist to just ignore all of taxonomy, would you?

[Fartsniffage]

Until new facts are discovered, the current consensus is very much assumed to be correct. There would be no point if science always doubted everything it says.

Ummm, that's exactly what science does. That's the point of it. Someone has a hypothesis, get's some evidence and upgrades it to a theory. Other scientists then try to get more evidence to try and disprove that theory. That's the scientific method.

Someone could disprove Newton today.

[Olthar]

Until new facts are discovered, the current consensus is very much assumed to be correct. There would be no point if science always doubted everything it says.

Ummm, that's exactly what science does. That's the point of it. Someone has a hypothesis, get's some evidence and upgrades it to a theory. Other scientists then try to get more evidence to try and disprove that theory. That's the scientific method.

Someone could disprove Newton today.

And that hypothesis is only formed after observation. People don't just wake up one day and declare, "Today, I am going to try to disprove plate tectonics!" That doesn't happen. Someone will only form a hypothesis that plate tectonics might be wrong if they observe something that contradicts it. Until then, it's generally assumed that plate tectonics is correct as there is absolutely no reason for it not to be.

[Galborg]

Do you really think NdGT will stop after he Death Stars Pluto?

Of course he plans to nuke Earth.

I would plan to nuke Earth if I were an evil priest too.

Is this supposed to be some kind of analogy, or do you actually believe that because Pluto was changed to a Dwarf Planet it means it's going to be blown up? this isn't sarcasm, I am honestly curious.

The analogy is incomplete: so far, all we got is Evil priests use Death Star to nuke planets; Neil de Grasse Palpatine wants to nuke Pluto; when Neil de Grasse Palpatine has a Death Star, he will nuke Earth too.

We need more evidence of the links to prove it.

[Olthar]

Is this supposed to be some kind of analogy, or do you actually believe that because Pluto was changed to a Dwarf Planet it means it's going to be blown up? this isn't sarcasm, I am honestly curious.

The analogy is incomplete: so far, all we got is Evil priests use Death Star to nuke planets; Neil de Grasse Palpatine wants to nuke Pluto; when Neil de Grasse Palpatine has a Death Star, he will nuke Earth too.

We need more evidence of the links to prove it.

Serious question: Are you drunk and/or high right now?

[Hathradic States]

Yes, because it was when I was a child, goddammit.

[Galborg]

The analogy is incomplete: so far, all we got is Evil priests use Death Star to nuke planets; Neil de Grasse Palpatine wants to nuke Pluto; when Neil de Grasse Palpatine has a Death Star, he will nuke Earth too.

We need more evidence of the links to prove it.

Serious question: Are you drunk and/or high right now?

Yes, as such, but I believe the same pro-Pluto and anti-Islamic doctrine when I am sober.

We need more evidence of the links to prove it.

I have presented SOME evidence of Tyson's evilitude; I freely confess that I have not yet produced enough evidence to be proof positive.

What do you want me to do? Pull fake evidence out of my ass? Just like Tyson does?

Maybe I should, then you would worship and obey me.

[Olthar]

Serious question: Are you drunk and/or high right now?

Yes, as such, but I believe the same pro-Pluto and anti-Islamic doctrine when I am sober.

We need more evidence of the links to prove it.

I have presented SOME evidence of Tyson's evilitude; I freely confess that I have not yet produced enough evidence to be proof positive.

What do you want me to do? Pull fake evidence out of my ass? Just like Tyson does?

Maybe I should, then you would worship and obey me.

Niel deGrasse Tyson isn't a Muslim. He's non-religious. Most scientists are.

[Uieurnthlaal]

Until new facts are discovered, the current consensus is very much assumed to be correct. There would be no point if science always doubted everything it says.

Ummm, that's exactly what science does. That's the point of it. Someone has a hypothesis, get's some evidence and upgrades it to a theory. Other scientists then try to get more evidence to try and disprove that theory. That's the scientific method.

Someone could disprove Newton today.

Except that "disproving" an arbitrary classification is the scientific equivalent of tilting at windmills.

[Coccygia]

Absolutely not! If we make Pluto a planet again all these Kuiper Belt Objects will want to be planets, too, and every time you look around there'll be another one.

Hence why Ceres was only a planet for a short while...

That slut.

[Eahland]

Until new facts are discovered, the current consensus is very much assumed to be correct. There would be no point if science always doubted everything it says.

Ummm, that's exactly what science does. That's the point of it. Someone has a hypothesis, get's some evidence and upgrades it to a theory. Other scientists then try to get more evidence to try and disprove that theory. That's the scientific method.

Someone could disprove Newton today.

Einstein already did.

Pluto is clearly not a planet by the current official definition, but the current official definition has, IMAO, some issues, and I suspect it of having been written not as a useful guideline for classification but to arrive at a predetermined result. The "cleared its orbit" bit is just handwaving, the "orbits the Sun" part, as already observed, automatically rules out any extrasolar planet, and if you loosen it up to "orbits a star", that still leaves out loose planets, and makes multiple stars "planets".

My definition would go something like:
1. Not a star.
2. Doesn't orbit a planet.
3. Big enough to be rounded by its own gravity.

This would rule out Sol (a star), Alpha Centauri B (a star), Luna (orbits another planet), Pallas (not round), Phobos (orbits another planet, not round), Voyager (not round), and Sputnik 1 (not rounded by its own gravity, orbits (orbited) another planet) but include Eris, Ceres, Vesta, Gliese 581 c, and others. (And, yes, I'm totally okay with lotsa planets. If kids have trouble remembering them, they can get smarter.) Ironically, Pluto's still kind of an edge case, because it's debatable whether it orbits another planet or not. I'd be inclined to accept both Pluto and Charon as a double planet on grounds that neither actually orbits the other; they both orbit their mutual barycenter, which is located in open space between them. (Pluto's other moons get left out by not being big enough, though.)

[Fartsniffage]

Ummm, that's exactly what science does. That's the point of it. Someone has a hypothesis, get's some evidence and upgrades it to a theory. Other scientists then try to get more evidence to try and disprove that theory. That's the scientific method.

Someone could disprove Newton today.

Except that "disproving" an arbitrary classification is the scientific equivalent of tilting at windmills.

Yeah, I think I already made that point....

[Pravengria]

Should Pluto still be a planet? A few years ago, Pluto was declassified from Planet status to Dwarf Planet status. What is your opinion Ns? I think they were right, Pluto is similar in size to several objects near it ,and is too small and similar in shape to all the to all the other things out at the fringe regions of the solars system. all those small planets, like Eris for example, are not classified as planets. Nor should Pluto be.

No, Pluto isn't a planet. He's a dog, how the hell did you mix those two up?


I learned it as a planet, and will consider it a planet.

[Grenartia]

It makes me wonder if that legal declaration happens instantaneously, via quantum entanglement-esque effects, or only at the speed of light. If the latter, It should be interesting to note that by the time we see that Pluto is in New Mexico's "space", it will almost surely have left it, seeing as how Pluto is several light-hours (6, if memory serves) away from the sun, and Earth only 8 light minutes.

Write them a letter and inquire!

Nah. I'll just claim it in the name of Tennessee, and start a land dispute between TN and NM.

last I checked, a dwarf planet, still has planet in it, so it's technically a planet.

No, that's not how it works.

Exactly my point.
After all, the definition of "Planet" is completely arbitrary. You could redefine planets to include pluto, but then you would have to deal with four other dwarf planets as well, which would start to stretch the conventional definition of "planet". So, since the IAU has decided to define planets in that way, I will go with them out of convention.

If you extended the definition to include Pluto, you wouldn't just add 4 others as well... you'd add several hundred.
Using a Pluto-accepting definition would render the term "planet" unhelpful, and almost meaningless.

Perhaps some sort of mass definition is in order?

English has no consistent pronunciation, being an incomprehensible mess of Norse, Old English, and French, with additions from hundreds of other languages. That might be a pain, but as an English speaker, you must learn that spelling only vaguely correlates with pronunciation, and learn the pronunciation of the english language one by one.

Took the words right out of my mouth. It amazes me that so many native speakers of a language as inconsistent as English aren't more concerned about learning proper pronunciation for unfamiliar words.

Besides, if Sho's argument had any basis, why did I, a native English speaker who is totally ignorant of pronounciation symbols (it gets really fucking complicated, and my keyboard doesn't even support them), have absolutely no issue with the correct pronounciation of Makemake when I first read it?

Ah, I understand your sarcasm! Science isn't about only following the current consensus, it's about following the past consensus and ignoring the present consensus! *nods*

There will be nao changes tu teh nostalgia!

Look at it this way. The label "planet" is completely artificial. It's a vague convenience that would be completely ignored by anyone actively involved in the study of the various objects orbiting the Sun. It's not going to change the science one jot.

Think about this, the difference between Jupiter and Mercury is far greater than that between Mars and Pluto, both in size and composition 1. but Mercury and Jupiter are both given the classification planet based on some random criteria. 2. Does that mean that the chaps sending probes to buzz Mercury and Jupiter both use the same equipment and mission parameters?

1. Ah, but Mercury and Jupiter both fit the criteria (which aren't exactly as arbitrary as one would think) to be considered planets. Mars also fits the criteria, but Pluto does not.

2. This has no relevance to the discussion, though, actually, they do use roughly the same equipment (though certain things will be changed, i.e., a probe to Mercury would have solar panels for power, while a probe to Jupiter would have nuclear power), and the mission parameters for basic flybys are all fairly similar (the parameters DO change, but purely as a consequence as the goals of the mission and conditions expected to be encountered and not as a direct result of the planet itself).

Yes, because it was when I was a child, goddammit.

Yes, and because the Earth was considered flat when I was born in 1463, it is still flat because it was when I was a child. I don't care what your ''airplanes'', ''satellite photograhs'', ''jet pilots'', and ''astronauts'' say, dammit!

[Shofercia]

Took the words right out of my mouth. It amazes me that so many native speakers of a language as inconsistent as English aren't more concerned about learning proper pronunciation for unfamiliar words.

Besides, if Sho's argument had any basis, why did I, a native English speaker who is totally ignorant of pronounciation symbols (it gets really fucking complicated, and my keyboard doesn't even support them), have absolutely no issue with the correct pronounciation of Makemake when I first read it?

Because two native speakers can pronounce a foreign word, *gasps* in a different manner! Imagine that!

[Grenartia]

Besides, if Sho's argument had any basis, why did I, a native English speaker who is totally ignorant of pronounciation symbols (it gets really fucking complicated, and my keyboard doesn't even support them), have absolutely no issue with the correct pronounciation of Makemake when I first read it?

Because two native speakers can pronounce a foreign word, *gasps* in a different manner! Imagine that!

I can. However, it does knock a hole in your statement that we need pronounciation marks.

[Shofercia]

Because two native speakers can pronounce a foreign word, *gasps* in a different manner! Imagine that!

I can. However, it does knock a hole in your statement that we need pronounciation marks.

Except I didn't make that statement. But yes, you definitely knocked some holes in a statement that I didn't make. Well done!

Here are the statements that I made:

In English, the word "makemake" is usually going to be read as "make-make". If you want it to be read different, you could use pronunciation symbols, like you did in that post, i.e. "Ma-ke-ma-ke", which ensures a different reading.

Carlisle is English, i.e. Carl's Isle. And, if I didn't get proper instructions on pronouncing Avignon, I'd most definitely mispronounce that. That's why [I like] proper pronunciation guides

Note, I'm explaining why I made the error, and what could keep me from making the same error in the future. I didn't go around claiming that all Americans need pronunciation marks. I merely suggested that it might be helpful to some native speakers, such as yours truly.