Do you believe in extraterrestrials?

[Popular Union of Tucson-Arizona]

How about an " I don't know" option? Frank Drake's so-called "theory" was nothing more than wishful thinking. Maybe we're the first, most advanced civilization. How does anybody "know"?

Sincerely

nwilley

[Cannabai]

a chocolate chip cookie that chokes you...I bet

Fool I shall make you pay for your unbelief

[Popular Union of Tucson-Arizona]

How about a I don't know" option? Frank Drake's so-called "theory" was nothing more than wishful thinking. Maybe we're the first, most advanced civilization. How does anybody "know"?

Sincerely

nwilley

[New Nassrau]

I swear I have seen a UFO before, but anyways, I am a full believer, I mean, there are trillions of planets... there has to be more life than just us

[Asasia]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”-Arthur C. Clark

[Greater Beggnig]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”-Arthur C. Clark

It's a very worrying thought that there could be worlds out there were the Nazis or their equivalent took over the world. Do we really want to be transmitting all these messages saying; here we are, find us, we are friendly?

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

I believe that it is almost certain that extraterrestrials exist, and considering the new developments about Gilese 581 and her planets, we can almost find another planet. I however believe that an alien invasion is nearly impossible, and connection with Aliens is unlikely, but I think we should wait until A Message From Earth reaches Gilese 81 c in 2029. I also believe that Neil deGrasse Tyson's idea that maybe we're not intelligent enough and that Aliens think we're not worth interacting with. I think that we, humans, should go out and do it instead of letting the Aliens come here.

[Anachronous Rex]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”-Arthur C. Clark

It's a very worrying thought that there could be worlds out there were the Nazis or their equivalent took over the world. Do we really want to be transmitting all these messages saying; here we are, find us, we are friendly?

I'm always a little depressed that people seem to buy into the Star Trek idea that aliens would be just like us, but funny looking.

[Asasia]

It's a very worrying thought that there could be worlds out there were the Nazis or their equivalent took over the world. Do we really want to be transmitting all these messages saying; here we are, find us, we are friendly?

I'm always a little depressed that people seem to buy into the Star Trek idea that aliens would be just like us, but funny looking.

Or that the other civilizations are much more advanced then us.

[Breadknife]

Another interesting thought: If humanity were to go extinct, it would be hard for another species to develop tech, since we would have used a lot of the resources, and they would end up finding our nukes one day, and they might not have the same ideas as we do about what to do with them.

If humanity goes extinct then it might well take at least 65 million years for its succesor race to arise, by which time who knows what new resources would be available. Apart from new coal-measures from current rainforests, if you're looking for metal ores (which are by no means tapped out, and geology will surely reveal currently hidden natural resources to the primitive race just entering their own iron-age)) they'd have the benefit of of neocine-generated formations of steel and glass and concrete, resulting from the remains of our very own cities... I'm sure they'd have some use for these remains (if only the intersticial metal), and hopefully not a little interest about them.

Depending on why we've gone extinct, I might indeed hope that they don't have the same idea about us about our nukes. (Although, realisitcally,after a few million years they'd be virtually useless (in their current configuration, assuming the rest of the device remains as viable in the first place) batches of thorium or onwards.)


But it'd be interesting for the future civilisation, and their 'paleoarchaeologists' (or equivalent) may have a lot to talk about in conferences.

[Breadknife]

I'm quite upset that so many people are still ignoring the fact that the Universe is big, I mean really big... and lest I continue with the H2G2 quote, let's just say that's big.

The chances that intelligent life is not out there is mind-boggingly small, because there's so many places for it to exist. Even if you decide that technological civilisations last no more than a millenia because of inherent self-destruction (if not hit by prolems not of their own making), the number of simultaneous ones (FCVO of "simultaneous", given frames of reference and/or whether we accept the SoL delay to count, etc)) currently alive is still supendously high.

It is not something that can really be realistically argued against with an extraordinary claim of a mega-super-rarity of chances.of even ourselves existing, and thus a claim that we are extraordinary. Which there's no realistic cause to suspect (outside anything theistic, which I'm going to consider not part of this discussion.).


OTOH, aliens that we could meet are of course far rarer. For exactly the same reason that space is big. Still, until we have (somehow) managed to explore every cubic inch of this cosmos or have actually made contact (and I'd bet on the latter being the more realistic conclusion, with only "we still don't know" as the (possibly vastly) greater possibility) we'll still be in the dark.

[Breadknife]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”-Arthur C. Clark

It's a very worrying thought that there could be worlds out there were the Nazis or their equivalent took over the world. Do we really want to be transmitting all these messages saying; here we are, find us, we are friendly?

What, like the broadcasts from the 1936 Berlin Olympics?

(I'm not going to worry about it, for aforementioned reasons.)

[New Corenea]

I believe that there are aliens. The space is just to big for us if Earth is the only planet with life. I believe that most aliens are merely bacteria, numbers are animalic, and less numbers are able to weild tools and create a society, and a very small percentage that have technology comparable or better than ours.

[Terran Faction]

I'm always a little depressed that people seem to buy into the Star Trek idea that aliens would be just like us, but funny looking.

Or that the other civilizations are much more advanced then us.

I hate that a lot. I'm not saying more advanced civilizations beyond Earth are not out there, but anyone who thinks humans are the only living things that aren't advanced like the "Extraterrestrials" is stupid.

If we find intelligent extraterrestrials, chances are they might be throwing rocks and playing with fire (if they are able to grab objects)

[Terran Faction]

I saw a tv show and it told that aliens are digging into woman fetuses to make human-alien hybrids I'm being serious

theres a lot of witness of people seeing aliens so it must be real?

sorry, I scared you guys

According to the ancient astronaut theory, your mother was impregnated by an EXTRATERRESTRIAL. Your DNA is mixed with DNA of the extraterrestrials. You're hybrids. Is it possible that you were conceived by an extraterrestrial in the remote past? Yes it is.

I think you ran into this guy.

[Grenartia]

If we look at homo habilis,the first stone using species that existed 2 million years ago, we have been on earth for .05% of our planets 4.5 billion year history. We likely will not be here more than .1%, so even if we found another race there is no guarantee they would be alive. Any species that we found would have to survive similar near-extinction events, such as near nuclear war (US-USSR had a near showdown, in case anyone forgot), a plague (such as Black Death), volcanic disaster (70,000 years ago a "super volcano" erupted that wiped out another homo family member while reducing humanity to some 10,000 members), and more. There are many things that could trigger extinction to come. Famine, perhaps due to environmental neglect, could cause anarchy as mass starvations occur. Nuclear war, though unlikely, could still potentially occur due to accident or design. Even if we were not made extinct, an event such as a catastrophic power grid failure could cause society to become paralyzed or reset. Any race would presumably have to survive similar obstacles,

Going back to that .05% of intelligence on this planet, we have only been space-worthy for about 60 years (going to the 1950's to now, rounding for sputnik). This is .003% of our time on the planet. This means that the overwhelming OTHER amount of time we were not in space, and thats a small window to find aliens that are similar in development. Even if they have been space worthy for 10,000 years, thats only .5% of their planets time. This means that we would likely find the ruins of a civilization, and not necessarily the living residents. Even if a race was space faring, there is always the possibility they would not leave their planet for some reason. Perhaps they feared that their activity would attract a hostile race, perhaps they had some religious taboo. Perhaps they achieved some sustainability on their planet, and a sudden exodus for colonization would jeopardize it. A totalitarian state could fear the possibility that expansion could lead to revolution or states beyond their control, and could thus ban travel or tightly regulate it to the point it is impractical or impossible. It might be ludicrously expensive, just like it is now.

Another good example is the European exploration of the Americas in the colonial eras. Despite finding native americans, mayans, aztecs, and incas, they never found a society as technologically advanced as they were. Two continents, dozens of tribes, and numerous civilizations were found, but none were technologically superior to them. This again shows the likelihood of finding a society as advanced as ours. The same thing happened with the Aborigines, and even way back with the Nubians, the Zulu, the Celts, and more.

I do believe that life exists elsewhere, but I would not hold my breath for finding a super advanced life form, let alone believe that it would only have good intentions for us. We evolved our current traits (pack "mob mentality", us-or-them attitude, aggressiveness, gluttony, thirst to "get even", war, etc.) for particular reasons, because in the past those traits were useful. Any species would likely have similar traits, and getting rid of them would likely require eugenics, brainwashing, and/or genocide to achieve some "utopian" peace-only society. That wouldn't be a society that would necessarily be good to interact with.

You can't glean that progression here is indicative of progression elsewhere. Also, after a certain point, I'd argue that a species (not necessarily its members) becomes effectively immortal. I.E., able to defeat any and all potential causes of extinction.

Also, as for the general psychology of a given species, by the same token, we've also evolved our current POSITIVE TRAITS. Empathy, altruism, the golden rule, self-sacrifice, charity, etc. Your logic demands that other species ALSO share THESE traits.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Yes, I do. I'm certain that there are many other sentient species across the galaxies.

The Drake Equation?

Yes.

[Grenartia]

Anarchic societies tend to not progress much, if at all, due to survival being the sole focus of all members of society, for as long as the anarchy lasts (which, at least in terms of humanity, isn't that long, as we tend to very quickly realize that anarchy is a shitty way of life, and organize governments to prevent it).

Well, semi-anarchic societies lasted for most of human history...er..prehistory.

And how did they maintain order? If it was some sort of chieftain, then it wasn't anarchy, or "semi-anarchy". That's called government.

Do you believe that you are a God?

What does that have to do with anything?

If aliens exist, what form of government would they have?

(Not including hivemind insectoids).

Oh, come on...
You mean Starship Troopers won't come true?
Oh wait, that's a good thing!

It will somewhere. But the point is that its a form of government that's so inherently alien to us, we've already thought of it multiple times.

a chocolate chip cookie that chokes you...I bet

Fool I shall make you pay for your unbelief

Stop spamming. [/notamod

Another interesting thought: If humanity were to go extinct, it would be hard for another species to develop tech, since we would have used a lot of the resources, and they would end up finding our nukes one day, and they might not have the same ideas as we do about what to do with them.

If humanity goes extinct then it might well take at least 65 million years for its succesor race to arise, by which time who knows what new resources would be available. Apart from new coal-measures from current rainforests, if you're looking for metal ores (which are by no means tapped out, and geology will surely reveal currently hidden natural resources to the primitive race just entering their own iron-age)) they'd have the benefit of of neocine-generated formations of steel and glass and concrete, resulting from the remains of our very own cities... I'm sure they'd have some use for these remains (if only the intersticial metal), and hopefully not a little interest about them.

Depending on why we've gone extinct, I might indeed hope that they don't have the same idea about us about our nukes. (Although, realisitcally,after a few million years they'd be virtually useless (in their current configuration, assuming the rest of the device remains as viable in the first place) batches of thorium or onwards.)


But it'd be interesting for the future civilisation, and their 'paleoarchaeologists' (or equivalent) may have a lot to talk about in conferences.

My thoughts exactly. Though I took a different route explaining why there'd be no danger from the nukes. The fact is, its impossible to detonate a nuke without either intimate knowledge of it and its failsafes, or the launch code.

[The Four Corners Commonwealth]

If we look at homo habilis,the first stone using species that existed 2 million years ago, we have been on earth for .05% of our planets 4.5 billion year history. We likely will not be here more than .1%, so even if we found another race there is no guarantee they would be alive. Any species that we found would have to survive similar near-extinction events, such as near nuclear war (US-USSR had a near showdown, in case anyone forgot), a plague (such as Black Death), volcanic disaster (70,000 years ago a "super volcano" erupted that wiped out another homo family member while reducing humanity to some 10,000 members), and more. There are many things that could trigger extinction to come. Famine, perhaps due to environmental neglect, could cause anarchy as mass starvations occur. Nuclear war, though unlikely, could still potentially occur due to accident or design. Even if we were not made extinct, an event such as a catastrophic power grid failure could cause society to become paralyzed or reset. Any race would presumably have to survive similar obstacles,

Going back to that .05% of intelligence on this planet, we have only been space-worthy for about 60 years (going to the 1950's to now, rounding for sputnik). This is .003% of our time on the planet. This means that the overwhelming OTHER amount of time we were not in space, and thats a small window to find aliens that are similar in development. Even if they have been space worthy for 10,000 years, thats only .5% of their planets time. This means that we would likely find the ruins of a civilization, and not necessarily the living residents. Even if a race was space faring, there is always the possibility they would not leave their planet for some reason. Perhaps they feared that their activity would attract a hostile race, perhaps they had some religious taboo. Perhaps they achieved some sustainability on their planet, and a sudden exodus for colonization would jeopardize it. A totalitarian state could fear the possibility that expansion could lead to revolution or states beyond their control, and could thus ban travel or tightly regulate it to the point it is impractical or impossible. It might be ludicrously expensive, just like it is now.

Another good example is the European exploration of the Americas in the colonial eras. Despite finding native americans, mayans, aztecs, and incas, they never found a society as technologically advanced as they were. Two continents, dozens of tribes, and numerous civilizations were found, but none were technologically superior to them. This again shows the likelihood of finding a society as advanced as ours. The same thing happened with the Aborigines, and even way back with the Nubians, the Zulu, the Celts, and more.

I do believe that life exists elsewhere, but I would not hold my breath for finding a super advanced life form, let alone believe that it would only have good intentions for us. We evolved our current traits (pack "mob mentality", us-or-them attitude, aggressiveness, gluttony, thirst to "get even", war, etc.) for particular reasons, because in the past those traits were useful. Any species would likely have similar traits, and getting rid of them would likely require eugenics, brainwashing, and/or genocide to achieve some "utopian" peace-only society. That wouldn't be a society that would necessarily be good to interact with.

You can't glean that progression here is indicative of progression elsewhere. Also, after a certain point, I'd argue that a species (not necessarily its members) becomes effectively immortal. I.E., able to defeat any and all potential causes of extinction.

Also, as for the general psychology of a given species, by the same token, we've also evolved our current POSITIVE TRAITS. Empathy, altruism, the golden rule, self-sacrifice, charity, etc. Your logic demands that other species ALSO share THESE traits.

You're right, they would have those traits. The reason I use development here is because it's the only available example, so its the only case study we have available. There have been several extinction events on earth, its not unreasonable to assume that there are events on other planets. It also doesn't solve the issue that even if life did develop there is only a small window of opportunity to find it before it may be snuffed out, unfortunately.

[Southeastern Xiatao]

There has to be intelligent life eslewhere in the universe, if there weren't and we were the only ones, it be scary. The universe is pretty damn huge, and if we were the only ones then it be such a big waste of space.

[Grave_n_idle]

There has to be intelligent life eslewhere in the universe, if there weren't and we were the only ones, it be scary. The universe is pretty damn huge, and if we were the only ones then it be such a big waste of space.

Scary. Waste of space. Those are your arguments for why there has to be (intelligent) life out there?

[Fulflood]

Not particularly.
If there's anything, it's bacteria sort of stuff, but as always the burden of proof is on those making the claim, and there's no way to prove it at the moment, so I can't say I truly believe. It's a very similar situation to believing in God, or at least that's how I see it. We can't really prove it and can't really make any valid calculations or assumptions, based on the fact that we have very limited data.

[Grenartia]

Not particularly.
If there's anything, it's bacteria sort of stuff, but as always the burden of proof is on those making the claim, and there's no way to prove it at the moment, so I can't say I truly believe. It's a very similar situation to believing in God, or at least that's how I see it. We can't really prove it and can't really make any valid calculations or assumptions, based on the fact that we have very limited data.

Actually, extraterrestrial life is a statistical certainty. That's the one main difference between ETs and God. Statistics doesn't support or not support the existence of God, but it does support the existence of ETs.

[Trollgaard]

Well, semi-anarchic societies lasted for most of human history...er..prehistory.

And how did they maintain order? If it was some sort of chieftain, then it wasn't anarchy, or "semi-anarchy". That's called government.

In many hunter-gatherer societies there was no chieftain. There was either nothing, or perhaps what was called a big man, without any real authority. People listened to the big man's advice, but had no compulsion to follow it.

[Grenartia]

And how did they maintain order? If it was some sort of chieftain, then it wasn't anarchy, or "semi-anarchy". That's called government.

In many hunter-gatherer societies there was no chieftain. There was either nothing, or perhaps what was called a big man, without any real authority. People listened to the big man's advice, but had no compulsion to follow it.

What happened if the big man was disobeyed?