Gay bars: Discriminatory?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That phrase irks me. Not because I don't agree with it but because I think there are better ways to shoot down an argument.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The policy of the bar is slightly ironic don't you think? For years Homosexual people have been banned from showing public affection even still today in allot of nations. I think its great that Straight people see what its like before judging others.

It's ironic on the basis that from what I've heard gay bars have so much more to deal with than straight couples kissing.

I've heard plenty of stories about "sticky booths" in Garlands, drift.

[Planeia]

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

I like how you skated over the rough patches there. How soon you seem to be forgetting that gays are an oppressed minority.

You can't put out a fire with more fire.

You can't save the planet from nuclear missiles by firing back with more nuclear missiles.

You can't fight discrimination with more discrimination.

[The Serbian Empire]

The policy of the bar is slightly ironic don't you think? For years Homosexual people have been banned from showing public affection even still today in allot of nations. I think its great that Straight people see what its like before judging others.

They doth protest too much end up repeath the behavior of their foes.

[Galloism]

Well, not really.

Yeah, really. You should know beforehand it's a gay bar and doing anything of the sort is disrespectful.

Really? You've never been to a gay bar with one of your friends and felt like kissing your SO randomly after a drink or two?

What of my natural urges? It's still wrong. Gays view heterosexual acts icky just as we heterosexuals view gay acts icky.

I don't view gay acts icky.

I just have no desire to participate. Unless they're bisexual women, in which I'm still not participating in a homosexual act. They are. Details.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Because, once again "discrimination = bad!" is how children think. And I'm not a child.

Discrimination in favor of a group in order to correct discrimination against them is not always a bad thing.

Minority scholarships exist because traditionally either due to overt discrimination, or other factors (education, economic) created by discrimination they have been deprived of access to higher education.

'BET' exists because the majority of television is aimed at the white majority, and strong black characters/journalists/etc are a rarity.

The same does not apply to a gay bar regarding allowing heterosexuals to display affection. It is still a 'safe' place for gays to do their thing, there's no quota, "Sorry, we only allow 6 displays of affection an hour, and the straights have used 5 of them.". Unless the idea is that heterosexuals kissing/hugging/grinding whatever is in itself somehow offensive or discriminatory towards gays, which as an argument is qualitatively no different from, "The very existence of gay marriage somehow degrades and devalues my straight marriage!"

The thing is, bars are typically not actually infinite in size. A bar that is full of straight people is, de facto, not a gay bar, even if it's still named "The Manhole" or "Rods." It's a pretty sound business strategy for a gay bar to discourage straight people from coming there, because the whole way it attracts its core clientele is by advertising itself as a place where most of the patrons will be gay.

[Frisivisia]

That phrase irks me. Not because I don't agree with it but because I think there are better ways to shoot down an argument.

Maybe you should check your privilege?

[Neo Art]

I often tell people I went to college on tumblr. It's less embarrassing than the truth.

Check your privilege, bro.

Dude, I'm a white, straight, able-bodied, judeo-christian male, aged 18-40. I don't have to check my privilege. The rest of the world does it for me.

[IshCong]

If you would've carefully read the OP, you would've seen that I said sexual orientation themed establishments are okay, but they shouldn't care if a crowd of another sexual orientation comes. Obviously bigots are not gonna go to such a place.

"Obviously"? Where did the gays get their invincible wall of bigots repellent?

Straights should be allowed in gay bars that much is true. But see, this is important. The owner banned heterosexual kissing. It is the act that is inappropriate in a GAY bar. If you're doing that kind of thing in a GAY bar, you're obviously trolling. So this "obviousness" about bigots not going to such a place is clearly wrong.

Or you're a heterosexual couple with homosexual friends who went out to a bar, especially if the majority of that particular group of friends on a given night is gay. Or you just stepped in the place to say "Hi" to someone. Or you're related to that person and kissed them on the cheek, which AFAICT would also be prohibited. Or you prefer the company of homosexuals despite being heterosexual, I've met people like that.

Simply kissing your SO does not automatically make you a bigot, nor should you assume that without any other evidence. When I read this my first thought was simply that a heterosexual couple with homosexual friends went out to a gay bar, and the former couple wound up kissing. Which was bad somehow.

[Horsefish]

Yeah, really. You should know beforehand it's a gay bar and doing anything of the sort is disrespectful.

What of my natural urges? It's still wrong. Gays view heterosexual acts icky just as we heterosexuals view gay acts icky.

I don't think gay men kissing is icky. I mean, full on going at it in a club corner? Slightly different kettle of fish (for both straight and gay), but kissing a bit? It's hardly icky.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That phrase irks me. Not because I don't agree with it but because I think there are better ways to shoot down an argument.

Maybe you should check your privilege?

I'm a woman, dude. What privilege?

[Blekksprutia]

I like how you skated over the rough patches there. How soon you seem to be forgetting that gays are an oppressed minority.

You can't put out a fire with more fire.

You can't save the planet from nuclear missiles by firing back with more nuclear missiles.

You can't fight discrimination with more discrimination.

Craaaap.
You're right. You're the first person who's done that on NS.

[Neo Art]

The thing is, bars are typically not actually infinite in size. A bar that is full of straight people is, de facto, not a gay bar, even if it's still named "The Manhole" or "Rods." It's a pretty sound business strategy for a gay bar to discourage straight people from coming there, because the whole way it attracts its core clientele is by advertising itself as a place where most of the patrons will be gay.

Hey I've been going to the Manhole for years now. I would have noticed if it were a gay bar. I mean, I met my friend James there, and he's a bodybuilder, he can't be gay.

[Frisivisia]

Maybe you should check your privilege?

I'm a woman, dude. What privilege?

There are disabled elderly female gay Inuits who I'm sure are being put down by your oppression.

[Ifreann]

Cheese? But I'm neither American nor continental.

Globalize yourself, Iffy.

I don't know is there's enough of me to go around. Maybe if I gorge on cheese...

---

Gay bars are great places to pick up women. *nods.

Not enough has been said about the localized crisis of gravity caused by high levels of gaydiation

People can't get down in gay bars?

---

This is young Biden.

Obama stole his youth.

I was beautiful, dammit. I'm making this my flag now.

No one will recognise you now.

[Neo Art]

That phrase irks me. Not because I don't agree with it but because I think there are better ways to shoot down an argument.

As a statement standing by itself it has as much relevance as it is relevant to the topic at hand. That said, there's a difference between stating a term, and discussing what said term means as a broader socio-political concept.

But once again, maybe I'm expecting a tad much from the crowd.

[IshCong]

Well, not really.

Yeah, really. You should know beforehand it's a gay bar and doing anything of the sort is disrespectful.

Really? You've never been to a gay bar with one of your friends and felt like kissing your SO randomly after a drink or two?

What of my natural urges? It's still wrong. Gays view heterosexual acts icky just as we heterosexuals view gay acts icky.

Some of us don't actually view heterosexual or homosexual acts as icky and just manage to accept people without discriminating.

[Frisivisia]

Yeah, really. You should know beforehand it's a gay bar and doing anything of the sort is disrespectful.

What of my natural urges? It's still wrong. Gays view heterosexual acts icky just as we heterosexuals view gay acts icky.

I don't think gay men kissing is icky. I mean, full on going at it in a club corner? Slightly different kettle of fish (for both straight and gay), but kissing a bit? It's hardly icky.

"Kettle of fish"? Is that what you kids are calling it?

[Frisivisia]

Globalize yourself, Iffy.

I don't know is there's enough of me to go around. Maybe if I gorge on cheese...

---

Not enough has been said about the localized crisis of gravity caused by high levels of gaydiation

People can't get down in gay bars?

---

I was beautiful, dammit. I'm making this my flag now.

No one will recognise you now.

They'll learn. Young Biden will be the new face, the best face.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm a woman, dude. What privilege?

There are disabled elderly female gay Inuits who I'm sure are being put down by your oppression.

I am shamed, right here, right now.

[The Serbian Empire]

The thing is, bars are typically not actually infinite in size. A bar that is full of straight people is, de facto, not a gay bar, even if it's still named "The Manhole" or "Rods." It's a pretty sound business strategy for a gay bar to discourage straight people from coming there, because the whole way it attracts its core clientele is by advertising itself as a place where most of the patrons will be gay.

Hey I've been going to the Manhole for years now. I would have noticed if it were a gay bar. I mean, I met my friend James there, and he's a bodybuilder, he can't be gay.

Hmmmm... there are gay men who don't sound or look like Carson Kressley.

[Olthar]

I like how you skated over the rough patches there. How soon you seem to be forgetting that gays are an oppressed minority.

You can't put out a fire with more fire.

You can't save the planet from nuclear missiles by firing back with more nuclear missiles.

You can't fight discrimination with more discrimination.

Actually, a rather effective way to fight forest fires is to burn down sections with controlled fires.

Most anti-missile defenses are based around firing missiles at the missiles to blow them up in the air where they're harmless.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh no, I am not assuming that straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other is a more valuable demographic. I am just thinking in terms of marginal profit per se. Of course, being a gay bar I would expect for it to be driven towards customers who are homosexual, but at the business level you also want to maximize profits, which this policy in the gay bar is not doing.

I am sincerely not looking at it in terms of demographics, I am looking at it as a financial transaction at this point. If I was the owner of said bar I would not place such a policy that is going to drive away money. Then again I think in maximum profits, he may think differently, which is okay too if he can make a profit with the current clientele he has or that he is projecting in the future.

You're still making the same mistake, just dressing it up to pretend you're not. Yes, clearly, doing something that drives away customers is a bad decision at a business level. I absolutely agree.

Unless, of course, you stand to lose more customers (or better paying ones) if you don't. Your whole assumption here is assuming that he will lose straight customers if he does this, but not lose gay customers if he doesn't. Why, again, would you assume that? Maybe this IS purely a financial decision, maybe his gay customers ARE bothered by this, and this is the best choice for him (sometimes it's not about making money, sometimes it's about reducing the amount you lose).

Or maybe he's just doing it out of principle and cares more for that then the financial gain. I don't see standing up for the comfort of your (traditionally oppressed) clientele to be a "stupid" move, even if it does cost him.

edit: and to add, of course, while his existing clientele might not object, it's entirely possible that there's a market out there who WOULD be going to his bar BUT FOR the concern, which he has removed. He may be attracting new business to supplement, and supplant, the business he lost.

I know the term gets used a lot, but this is really what's meant by "check your privilege". Stop assuming that just because you're white, or straight, or male, or Christian, or young, or cisgendered, or able-bodied, that your dollar is worth more than someone else's dollar. This is where the entitled thinking comes from, that he's "harming his business" by chasing away the straight people.

Once again, gay people have jobs too.

That is one of the choices I am seeing as viable (the whole attracting new customers bit).

And while you are making a good point about "privilege" I know a dollar is a dollar, it isn't like the value of a dollar has changed suddenly because of a certain demographic. And no, I was also thinking about gay people who have straight friends but because of this policy and the fact that their straight friends may not want to go to this bar and they enjoy being with them everytime they go to bars, they may instead pick another gay bar that does not have this policy. And some straight people may be cool with it and he won't lose as much either, that is a perfectly viable option as well.

And it's not stupid to stand up morally for a clientele, but financially, if it will cost the business, it is a pretty stupid move to make financially speaking, unless of course there is an influx of people who can replace the clientele that will be driven away by this, then there is no issue.

And yes, I know gay people have jobs too, no need to remind it.

[Frisivisia]

There are disabled elderly female gay Inuits who I'm sure are being put down by your oppression.

I am shamed, right here, right now.

Should have checked your privilege.

[Frisivisia]

Hey I've been going to the Manhole for years now. I would have noticed if it were a gay bar. I mean, I met my friend James there, and he's a bodybuilder, he can't be gay.

Hmmmm... there are gay men who don't sound or look like Carson Kressley.

I always thought it was a symptom of the gayness.