Gay bars: Discriminatory?

[Frisivisia]

That's what you're always saying.

This is young Biden.

Obama stole his youth.

I was beautiful, dammit. I'm making this my flag now.

[Planeia]

I don't see how discrimination against straight people is necessary. If it's because of the years of discrimination gay people have been getting, then that's like saying discrimination towards a white person is okay even if he's not racist, it's okay because white people have been known to be racist throughout history. That's your logic, or what it seems to be to me.

THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST BLACKS. THE MAJORITY OF BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT IN POVERTY OR IN JAILS. BECAUSE BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT EXIST.

MOVE ALONG CITIZEN. EVERYONE IS HAPPY AND EQUAL IN EQUALTOPIA.

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

[Horsefish]

Really? One of the big Gay Bars in Liverpool, Garlands, draws in a massive straight crowd.
It's a weekly event.

I keep getting told I should go...
Maybe losing myself in a sea of sexual ambivalence will do me a world of good.

Went to one in Manchester. 50p shots of sambuca and the place stayed open until 5 or 6, it's all a little hazy. The gays know how to party.

I've never had a problem with this myself, though I have heard of people getting turned away from some of the gay clubs for looking 'too straight'. It's not really on.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Globalize yourself, Iffy.

Who needs globes? I know all the geography I need to know: America, the Dirty Mexicans of South GAY-merica, Pussy-ass european commies, German Nazi Zombie Beer-makers, The Chinese people of Asia, The Terrorist Arabs of the Middle East, Africa... is somewhere on there... and poor..., Australia has that beer stuff and the crocodile hunter and it's on the bottom of the world. Done.

But, cheese... It's cheese.

[Galloism]

Globalize yourself, Iffy.

Who needs globes? I know all the geography I need to know: America, the Dirty Mexicans of South GAY-merica, Pussy-ass european commies, German Nazi Zombie Beer-makers, The Chinese people of Asia, The Terrorist Arabs of the Middle East, Africa... is somewhere on there... and poor..., Australia has that beer stuff and the crocodile hunter and it's on the bottom of the world. Done.

Crocodile hunter is dead dude. He got stabbed by an underwater pancake monster.

[Hurdegaryp]

Gay bars are great places to pick up women. *nods.

I keep getting told this, too.

But if that tactic fails and you're flexible enough, you can also opt for being picked up yourself. Pretty much a win/win scenario, if you ask me.

[Norstal]

Oh no, I am not assuming that straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other is a more valuable demographic. I am just thinking in terms of marginal profit per se. Of course, being a gay bar I would expect for it to be driven towards customers who are homosexual, but at the business level you also want to maximize profits, which this policy in the gay bar is not doing.

I am sincerely not looking at it in terms of demographics, I am looking at it as a financial transaction at this point. If I was the owner of said bar I would not place such a policy that is going to drive away money. Then again I think in maximum profits, he may think differently, which is okay too if he can make a profit with the current clientele he has or that he is projecting in the future.

This part of NA's post is very important:

It's only a stupid decision, at a business level, if you assume that "straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other" is a more valuable demographic to this bar than "gay people who want to have a safe space for them to socialize without being reminded of the fact that they're still an oppressed minority"

If you allow straights, you drive away gays looking for refuge. Which, you know, defeats the entire purpose of having a GAY bar.

[Frisivisia]

Who needs globes? I know all the geography I need to know: America, the Dirty Mexicans of South GAY-merica, Pussy-ass european commies, German Nazi Zombie Beer-makers, The Chinese people of Asia, The Terrorist Arabs of the Middle East, Africa... is somewhere on there... and poor..., Australia has that beer stuff and the crocodile hunter and it's on the bottom of the world. Done.

Crocodile hunter is dead dude. He got stabbed by an underwater pancake monster.

He shouldn't have lived in that commie nazi country. He didn't even have a gun to protect himself from the pancake monster.

[Olthar]

Is what I do.



The problem with being on the "have" side of the socio-political reality, as opposed to the "have not" side, is that you tend to think that you're the only important demographic in the room. Not a "fault" per se, but one we need to look at.

You're one of several people in this thread that has called this policy "stupid" or "wrong" or "driving away customers" which will "hurt the business".

Because "straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other" is somehow automatically viewed as a more valuable demographic than "gay people who want to have a safe space for them to socialize without being reminded of the fact that they're still an oppressed minority"

It's only a stupid decision, at a business level, if you assume that "straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other" is a more valuable demographic to this bar than "gay people who want to have a safe space for them to socialize without being reminded of the fact that they're still an oppressed minority"

Why would you assume that? Gay people have jobs too ya know.

Oh no, I am not assuming that straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other is a more valuable demographic. I am just thinking in terms of marginal profit per se. Of course, being a gay bar I would expect for it to be driven towards customers who are homosexual, but at the business level you also want to maximize profits, which this policy in the gay bar is not doing.

I am sincerely not looking at it in terms of demographics, I am looking at it as a financial transaction at this point. If I was the owner of said bar I would not place such a policy that is going to drive away money. Then again I think in maximum profits, he may think differently, which is okay too if he can make a profit with the current clientele he has or that he is projecting in the future.

"Never Mind receives a lot of emails from its gay guests concerning the high number of straight guests that visit the bar."
It seems like the primary demographic disapproved.

[Norstal]

THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST BLACKS. THE MAJORITY OF BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT IN POVERTY OR IN JAILS. BECAUSE BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT EXIST.

MOVE ALONG CITIZEN. EVERYONE IS HAPPY AND EQUAL IN EQUALTOPIA.

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

Ok. Then answer my last question, which you have conveniently avoided.

Where, if not for gay bars, can gay people safely mingle with other gays?

Or are you going to ignore that gays are still an oppressed minority viewed with derision?

[Myrensis]

Because, once again "discrimination = bad!" is how children think. And I'm not a child.

Discrimination in favor of a group in order to correct discrimination against them is not always a bad thing.

Minority scholarships exist because traditionally either due to overt discrimination, or other factors (education, economic) created by discrimination they have been deprived of access to higher education.

'BET' exists because the majority of television is aimed at the white majority, and strong black characters/journalists/etc are a rarity.

The same does not apply to a gay bar regarding allowing heterosexuals to display affection. It is still a 'safe' place for gays to do their thing, there's no quota, "Sorry, we only allow 6 displays of affection an hour, and the straights have used 5 of them.". Unless the idea is that heterosexuals kissing/hugging/grinding whatever is in itself somehow offensive or discriminatory towards gays, which as an argument is qualitatively no different from, "The very existence of gay marriage somehow degrades and devalues my straight marriage!"

[Frisivisia]

THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST BLACKS. THE MAJORITY OF BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT IN POVERTY OR IN JAILS. BECAUSE BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT EXIST.

MOVE ALONG CITIZEN. EVERYONE IS HAPPY AND EQUAL IN EQUALTOPIA.

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

I. Enjoy typing. Grammatically impossible. Sentences like. These ones. Because they. Make me. Feel. Like I'm. Saying. Something. Important.

[Neo Art]

Oh no, I am not assuming that straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other is a more valuable demographic. I am just thinking in terms of marginal profit per se. Of course, being a gay bar I would expect for it to be driven towards customers who are homosexual, but at the business level you also want to maximize profits, which this policy in the gay bar is not doing.

I am sincerely not looking at it in terms of demographics, I am looking at it as a financial transaction at this point. If I was the owner of said bar I would not place such a policy that is going to drive away money. Then again I think in maximum profits, he may think differently, which is okay too if he can make a profit with the current clientele he has or that he is projecting in the future.

You're still making the same mistake, just dressing it up to pretend you're not. Yes, clearly, doing something that drives away customers is a bad decision at a business level. I absolutely agree.

Unless, of course, you stand to lose more customers (or better paying ones) if you don't. Your whole assumption here is assuming that he will lose straight customers if he does this, but not lose gay customers if he doesn't. Why, again, would you assume that? Maybe this IS purely a financial decision, maybe his gay customers ARE bothered by this, and this is the best choice for him (sometimes it's not about making money, sometimes it's about reducing the amount you lose).

Or maybe he's just doing it out of principle and cares more for that then the financial gain. I don't see standing up for the comfort of your (traditionally oppressed) clientele to be a "stupid" move, even if it does cost him.

edit: and to add, of course, while his existing clientele might not object, it's entirely possible that there's a market out there who WOULD be going to his bar BUT FOR the concern, which he has removed. He may be attracting new business to supplement, and supplant, the business he lost.

I know the term gets used a lot, but this is really what's meant by "check your privilege". Stop assuming that just because you're white, or straight, or male, or Christian, or young, or cisgendered, or able-bodied, that your dollar is worth more than someone else's dollar. This is where the entitled thinking comes from, that he's "harming his business" by chasing away the straight people.

Once again, gay people have jobs too.

[Curiosityness]

the bar itself is not discriminatory but the fact that heterosexual couples cant do anything is a little bit ridiculous

[Planeia]

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

Ok. Then answer my last question, which you have conveniently avoided.

Where, if not for gay bars, can gay people safely mingle with other gays?

Or are you going to ignore that gays are still an oppressed minority viewed with derision?

If you would've carefully read the OP, you would've seen that I said sexual orientation themed establishments are okay, but they shouldn't care if a crowd of another sexual orientation comes. Obviously bigots are not gonna go to such a place.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

I. Enjoy typing. Grammatically impossible. Sentences like. These ones. Because they. Make me. Feel. Like I'm. Saying. Something. Important.

It's like the people that clap in an argument. There's a YT video about it.

[The Serbian Empire]

Crocodile hunter is dead dude. He got stabbed by an underwater pancake monster.

He shouldn't have lived in that commie nazi country. He didn't even have a gun to protect himself from the pancake monster.

Guns don't work underwater.

[Frisivisia]

I. Enjoy typing. Grammatically impossible. Sentences like. These ones. Because they. Make me. Feel. Like I'm. Saying. Something. Important.

It's like the people that clap in an argument. There's a YT video about it.

Or people that shout. As you've no doubt seen, I like to point and laugh.

[Frisivisia]

He shouldn't have lived in that commie nazi country. He didn't even have a gun to protect himself from the pancake monster.

Guns don't work underwater.

Pussy-ass commie nazi propaganda. Guns work everywhere.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Guns don't work underwater.

Pussy-ass commie nazi propaganda. Guns work everywhere.

Do they work inside of another gun?

[ALMF]

I'm not opposed to themed bars provided they do not discriminate based on arbitrary criteria.
Never Mind must be made to change the policy, or closed down.
The rationale for gay bars seems sound, in as far as gays are 10% of the population who desire another (5%?) the population at maximum, and thus have only 1/10 as many potential partners as straights.
This may necessitate that homosexuals have venues that are themed toward matching them up with partners.
I see it as functionally no different from a rock club or any other kind of themed bar.
Discrimination however is unacceptable.

Besides the arctic/biased statistics, I agree.

[Blekksprutia]

Here's what I read:
"Oh look at me, I'm straight, it's hard to be straight when there are people who aren't nearby, I don't like icky gays, we're special snowflakes, ya da da!"

[IshCong]

It. does not. fucking. justify. discrimination. like this.

Ok. Then answer my last question, which you have conveniently avoided.

Where, if not for gay bars, can gay people safely mingle with other gays?

Or are you going to ignore that gays are still an oppressed minority viewed with derision?

That homosexuals cannot mingle without facing discrimination in public is definitely wrong.
I don't see how resorting to something that amounts to "separate but equal" is somehow supposed to be a solution to that though. A blanket refusal to serve patrons based on their race, sex (where it doesn't matter, OBGYNs can refuse to treat men, obviously), or orientation is simply discriminatory and should be reversed. Ditto for policies that aim to do the exact same thing simply by placing discriminatory restrictions on people because of the same.

That being said, there is precisely zero problem with advertising your place as a place where homosexuals can gather, with catering to that clientele without discriminating against other orientations, and the like. Gay bars are not inherently wrong.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Oh no, I am not assuming that straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other is a more valuable demographic. I am just thinking in terms of marginal profit per se. Of course, being a gay bar I would expect for it to be driven towards customers who are homosexual, but at the business level you also want to maximize profits, which this policy in the gay bar is not doing.

I am sincerely not looking at it in terms of demographics, I am looking at it as a financial transaction at this point. If I was the owner of said bar I would not place such a policy that is going to drive away money. Then again I think in maximum profits, he may think differently, which is okay too if he can make a profit with the current clientele he has or that he is projecting in the future.

This part of NA's post is very important:

It's only a stupid decision, at a business level, if you assume that "straight people who want to go to a gay bar and make out with their significant other" is a more valuable demographic to this bar than "gay people who want to have a safe space for them to socialize without being reminded of the fact that they're still an oppressed minority"

If you allow straights, you drive away gays looking for refuge. Which, you know, defeats the entire purpose of having a GAY bar.

There was another case, a while back, of a gay bar which banned bachelorette parties, because they were effectively taking over the establishment. Gay men were leaving the bar because they had wanted a place to hang out, relax, maybe pick up dudes, and it was turning into a place where they were paying for the privilege of having drunken straight women wearing penis tiaras leer at them. That ban provoked the exact same reaction of "this is so unfair and oppressive to the straight people" and "that business will totally lose money."

Last I heard, that business is doing perfectly fine. Because gay men have money, and they choose to spend more of it at a bar where they don't get treated as entertainment for inebriated bridesmaids-to-be. Go figure!

[Galloism]

He shouldn't have lived in that commie nazi country. He didn't even have a gun to protect himself from the pancake monster.

Guns don't work underwater.

Um, some do... once anyway.

Some can fire multiple times with the proper setup.