NationStates

I'm assuming we're still PG-13 over here...

Nonetheless, as per usual, I'm sure we can engage in an educational, dignified, and appropriate conversation.

My first question is about education. Parents vs. the State...which do you support when it comes to sex education?

I don't support either specifically, simply those whose views most closely match my own. This is rarely the government, but in the case of parents with... er... severe 'think of the children' syndrome who don't believe any sexual discussion is appropriate for with anyone under 18 I'd side with the state. Fostering ignorance is akin to abuse and all that.

Jordaxia wrote:I don't support either specifically, simply those whose views most closely match my own. This is rarely the government, but in the case of parents with... er... severe 'think of the children' syndrome who don't believe any sexual discussion is appropriate for with anyone under 18 I'd side with the state. Fostering ignorance is akin to abuse and all that.

I think the state should provide non-ideological health based sex ed. The parents can push their abstinence/guilt agenda or what have you, but I think it's a fundamental right all children should have, to be educated in something so fundamental to the human experience. Leaving it entirely up to parents, in my opinion, is a stupid, dangerous, and unnecessary risk.

Neesika wrote:I think the state should provide non-ideological health based sex ed. The parents can push their abstinence/guilt agenda or what have you, but I think it's a fundamental right all children should have, to be educated in something so fundamental to the human experience. Leaving it entirely up to parents, in my opinion, is a stupid, dangerous, and unnecessary risk.

I'll agree with this. Ignorance is abound these days, and if parents can't provide the necessary education (which they don't) then yes, it should be up to the state.

*agrees with Neesika *

The state should teach the basic biology, explain that people have sex in many, many different ways and that many, many different preferences exists. It should also mention the laws of the land/state whatever - like age of consent, sodomy laws and so on.

Considering where I went to school, and the "community standards", I got a better factual education, with better and more age appropriate timing, from my parents than I did from the public schools. (10th grade biology was probably the closes I ever had - and it was opt out for students whos parents objected. To make it worse, the teacher was a fundy Xian.)

That being said, and considering the pregnancy rate at my high school (low in comparisson to others, but still inappropriately high), both the school and parents failed.

I went to an all-boys school with a slightly unorthodox view on teaching sex ed. Needless to say, I knew everything by the end of year seven.

Neesika wrote:

Jordaxia wrote:I don't support either specifically, simply those whose views most closely match my own. This is rarely the government, but in the case of parents with... er... severe 'think of the children' syndrome who don't believe any sexual discussion is appropriate for with anyone under 18 I'd side with the state. Fostering ignorance is akin to abuse and all that.

I think the state should provide non-ideological health based sex ed. The parents can push their abstinence/guilt agenda or what have you, but I think it's a fundamental right all children should have, to be educated in something so fundamental to the human experience. Leaving it entirely up to parents, in my opinion, is a stupid, dangerous, and unnecessary risk.

I don't entirely share your point of view on this issue, but I agree that Sex-ed should be a state issue because it's not specifically mentioned in the national constitution.

I think the parents should do it. A lot of schools these days teach abstinence only or aren't allowed to teach anything about birth control (like my high school). I didn't get my first proper (and I use this term loosely) sex ed class until senior year and that's just sad. A lot of the people in my class already had kids by then. There isn't much a sex ed class can do once the kids have already had sex. Parents are either too lazy, or think it's too hard to teach kids sex ed. Well guess what, if they don't who will? The highly censored school that teaches too little too late? When you have kids you accept the responsibility of raising them at least I damn well hope so. Part of raising them to grow up and be successful functioning adults is teaching them sex ed no matter how embarrassed you may be about it. No one said raising kids was easy, you have to do things that you may not want to do that are difficult. I don't think sex ed should be taken out of schools though. No matter what you do you still get your parents that don't properly raise their kids. The school should still offer sex ed classes but much earlier and much more directly. My own sex ed class felt like it was aimed at 12 year olds. It was all fluffy bunnies, coloring pages, word finds, and The Miracle of Life.

I also believe that students should have no-questions-asked access to contraceptives, even through the schools. Birth control pills, condoms, what have you. Free of charge.

The idea that 'fear of STIs/pregnancy' will stop kids...who have no fucking fear or concept of mortality...from having sex, is exceedingly foolish.

Btw when I said 'the state', I didn't mean 'the states, versus the federal gov't', though education in both the US and Canada tends to be a state/provincial head of power rather than a federal one. I just meant in general, the state should be the 'sexual education safety net'.

Atlantamuria wrote:I think the parents should do it. A lot of schools these days teach abstinence only or aren't allowed to teach anything about birth control (like my high school). I didn't get my first proper (and I use this term loosely) sex ed class until senior year and that's just sad. A lot of the people in my class already had kids by then. There isn't much a sex ed class can do once the kids have already had sex. Parents are either too lazy, or think it's too hard to teach kids sex ed. Well guess what, if they don't who will? The highly censored school that teaches too little too late? When you have kids you accept the responsibility of raising them at least I damn well hope so. Part of raising them to grow up and be successful functioning adults is teaching them sex ed no matter how embarrassed you may be about it. No one said raising kids was easy, you have to do things that you may not want to do that are difficult. I don't think sex ed should be taken out of schools though. No matter what you do you still get your parents that don't properly raise their kids. The school should still offer sex ed classes but much earlier and much more directly. My own sex ed class felt like it was aimed at 12 year olds. It was all fluffy bunnies, coloring pages, word finds, and The Miracle of Life.

I agree that sex-ed as it currently exists in many jurisdictions is less than useless. People need to get over their fear of children learning about sex and sexual health, so that education on the topic can stop being so crippled. Ideally, the parents could still be morons and the schools would pick up the slack.

Neesika wrote:I also believe that students should have no-questions-asked access to contraceptives, even through the schools. Birth control pills, condoms, what have you. Free of charge.

The idea that 'fear of STIs/pregnancy' will stop kids...who have no fucking fear or concept of mortality...from having sex, is exceedingly foolish.

I agree, maybe we wouldn't have the 6% of my class (over 1000 people) that has kids. Who knows how many of them have had abortions. Parents and the schools both just choose to look away.

I knew you'd be the first.

There really, really need to be better standards for sex ed classes in high schools. As in, set standards. None of this abstinence only stuff, I'm so tired of sex ed classes telling kids that they'll die if they have sex before marriage. My school had way, way too many pregnant teens as I was leaving, one of which I knew personally. She literally said 'We didn't use a condom because we were afraid it would break.'

Not everyone's a genius.

The school I went to taught girls about menstrual cycles when they were, like 15, and sex at 17-18. It was really a mess, but you can't trust parents to do it, who are too clueless/frightened/lazy/fundamentalist to talk to their kids. Many parents don't do it because they assume the school will! Someone needs to mandate a set program for all sex ed classes to avoid the ignorance that leads to unwanted pregnancy and STIs. Really, what we're doing right now isn't working. It's a mess.

Ring of Isengard wrote:I knew you'd be the first.

It was imperative. I have a reputation to uphold and all that.

Neesika wrote:

Ring of Isengard wrote:I knew you'd be the first.

It was imperative. I have a reputation to uphold and all that.

I understand, you've got to keep up your street cred.

Mor Rioghan wrote:There really, really need to be better standards for sex ed classes in high schools. As in, set standards. None of this abstinence only stuff, I'm so tired of sex ed classes telling kids that they'll die if they have sex before marriage. My school had way, way too many pregnant teens as I was leaving, one of which I knew personally. She literally said 'We didn't use a condom because we were afraid it would break.'

Not everyone's a genius.

The school I went to taught girls about menstrual cycles when they were, like 15, and sex at 17-18. It was really a mess, but you can't trust parents to do it, who are too clueless/frightened/lazy/fundamentalist to talk to their kids. Many parents don't do it because they assume the school will! Someone needs to mandate a set program for all sex ed classes to avoid the ignorance that leads to unwanted pregnancy and STIs. Really, what we're doing right now isn't working. It's a mess.

Too many fucking parents complaining about what is being taught, then not picking up the slack. Or politicians sticking their noses in, because they hate how sex ed makes it more difficult to groom little kids to diddle.

Yes, I went there.

Atlantamuria wrote:I think the parents should do it. A lot of schools these days teach abstinence only or aren't allowed to teach anything about birth control (like my high school). I didn't get my first proper (and I use this term loosely) sex ed class until senior year and that's just sad. A lot of the people in my class already had kids by then. There isn't much a sex ed class can do once the kids have already had sex. Parents are either too lazy, or think it's too hard to teach kids sex ed. Well guess what, if they don't who will? The highly censored school that teaches too little too late? When you have kids you accept the responsibility of raising them at least I damn well hope so. Part of raising them to grow up and be successful functioning adults is teaching them sex ed no matter how embarrassed you may be about it. No one said raising kids was easy, you have to do things that you may not want to do that are difficult. I don't think sex ed should be taken out of schools though. No matter what you do you still get your parents that don't properly raise their kids. The school should still offer sex ed classes but much earlier and much more directly. My own sex ed class felt like it was aimed at 12 year olds. It was all fluffy bunnies, coloring pages, word finds, and The Miracle of Life.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Part of the reason why sex-ed is so poorly taught in public schools is the amount of influence morons have over the system. It can be seen in many other subjects as well. Part of the reason for public schooling is to have widespread, consistent education and by allowing parents to pull kids from certain classes, or censor subjects we've defeated the whole point.

Neesika wrote:My first question is about education. Parents vs. the State...which do you support when it comes to sex education?

Both, for different things. Parents for the "soft" bit, The Almighty State for information about safer sex and suchlike.

Saige Dragon wrote:

Atlantamuria wrote:I think the parents should do it. A lot of schools these days teach abstinence only or aren't allowed to teach anything about birth control (like my high school). I didn't get my first proper (and I use this term loosely) sex ed class until senior year and that's just sad. A lot of the people in my class already had kids by then. There isn't much a sex ed class can do once the kids have already had sex. Parents are either too lazy, or think it's too hard to teach kids sex ed. Well guess what, if they don't who will? The highly censored school that teaches too little too late? When you have kids you accept the responsibility of raising them at least I damn well hope so. Part of raising them to grow up and be successful functioning adults is teaching them sex ed no matter how embarrassed you may be about it. No one said raising kids was easy, you have to do things that you may not want to do that are difficult. I don't think sex ed should be taken out of schools though. No matter what you do you still get your parents that don't properly raise their kids. The school should still offer sex ed classes but much earlier and much more directly. My own sex ed class felt like it was aimed at 12 year olds. It was all fluffy bunnies, coloring pages, word finds, and The Miracle of Life.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Part of the reason why sex-ed is so poorly taught in public schools is the amount of influence morons have over the system. It can be seen in many other subjects as well. Part of the reason for public schooling is to have widespread, consistent education and by allowing parents to pull kids from certain classes, or censor subjects we've defeated the whole point.

I was really more saying that the parents have the main responsibility but this isn't a perfect world because people are idiots so the slack should be caught by the schools.

Neesika wrote:

Jordaxia wrote:I don't support either specifically, simply those whose views most closely match my own. This is rarely the government, but in the case of parents with... er... severe 'think of the children' syndrome who don't believe any sexual discussion is appropriate for with anyone under 18 I'd side with the state. Fostering ignorance is akin to abuse and all that.

I think the state should provide non-ideological health based sex ed. The parents can push their abstinence/guilt agenda or what have you, but I think it's a fundamental right all children should have, to be educated in something so fundamental to the human experience. Leaving it entirely up to parents, in my opinion, is a stupid, dangerous, and unnecessary risk.

This is pretty much what I would say. I suppose parents who want to keep their children ignorant could pull them out of public schools and either home school them or put them into private schools, but I don't think there should be an "opt-out" option for classes taught in public schools.

Atlantamuria wrote:

Saige Dragon wrote:

Atlantamuria wrote:I think the parents should do it. A lot of schools these days teach abstinence only or aren't allowed to teach anything about birth control (like my high school). I didn't get my first proper (and I use this term loosely) sex ed class until senior year and that's just sad. A lot of the people in my class already had kids by then. There isn't much a sex ed class can do once the kids have already had sex. Parents are either too lazy, or think it's too hard to teach kids sex ed. Well guess what, if they don't who will? The highly censored school that teaches too little too late? When you have kids you accept the responsibility of raising them at least I damn well hope so. Part of raising them to grow up and be successful functioning adults is teaching them sex ed no matter how embarrassed you may be about it. No one said raising kids was easy, you have to do things that you may not want to do that are difficult. I don't think sex ed should be taken out of schools though. No matter what you do you still get your parents that don't properly raise their kids. The school should still offer sex ed classes but much earlier and much more directly. My own sex ed class felt like it was aimed at 12 year olds. It was all fluffy bunnies, coloring pages, word finds, and The Miracle of Life.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Part of the reason why sex-ed is so poorly taught in public schools is the amount of influence morons have over the system. It can be seen in many other subjects as well. Part of the reason for public schooling is to have widespread, consistent education and by allowing parents to pull kids from certain classes, or censor subjects we've defeated the whole point.

I was really more saying that the parents have the main responsibility but this isn't a perfect world because people are idiots so the slack should be caught by the schools.

Or we can make sex outside of marriage punishable by death! Yay Puritans!

Seriously though, it's true that this isn't a perfect world, and people need to wake up and realize that there are 10 YEAR OLDS out there having sex. Things are going crazy - parents aren't doing their jobs and schools are teaching sex ed too late. And what's with that Miracle of Life video? Is that meant to scare people into not having sex? I mean, really.

I'm not shy about it, and I hope my future kids aren't either because I'll make sure to teach them enough about sex and (most importantly) contraception that they'll be blushing before they even go into a sex ed class. I just don't trust the administration to do a job that should have been mine in the first place.

'Honey, I wasn't dumb. I knew all about contraceptives. That's why you're 12 and not 22.'

I think the bottom line is lack of sex ed is making a generation of ridiculous idiots. Luckily I was smart enough to look up info on my own because neither my parents or the school taught me anything.

Mor Rioghan wrote:'Honey, I wasn't dumb. I knew all about contraceptives. That's why you're 12 and not 22.'

You make me go "Ha ha!"

Neesika wrote:My first question is about education. Parents vs. the State...which do you support when it comes to sex education?

Parents should be the biggest teacher there is for kids. The onus of teaching should always fall on the parents first and the state second. Even if the state teaches math, the parents are there to overlook the teaching: that's one of the purpose of homework.

The parents should really approach the subject of sex wayearlier than the school is currently doing.