Best military option for a possible free Quebec?

[The Blaatschapen]

My question I'm putting forwards is if Quebec gained independence, what scenario do you view as the best option for a independent Quebec for a possible armed forces?

Allying with France.

The French North Atlantic Treaty Organiszation

[McCain 2018]

There is no 'best military option' for a free Quebec. The meddling, democracy-hating, French insurgency has managed to get away with its acts of terror and tyranny for too long. I say it is high-time we gave them the Baghdad Barbecue treatment.

[The Sovereign British Empire]

Quebec should never be allowed to be independent in my opinion, the dominion shall not shrink in size!

[United Marxist Nations]

"Free Quebec?" I'll take it.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Annexation of Canada by the USA, Quebec will contribute to the Federal American Army like everybody else.

[The North Polish Union]

Annexation of Canada by the USA, Quebec will contribute to the Federal American Army like everybody else.

The USA should not accept those French people.

[McCain 2018]

Annexation of Canada by the USA, Quebec will contribute to the Federal American Army like everybody else.

I like you.

[Grand Britannia]

Annexation of Canada by the USA, Quebec will contribute to the Federal American Army like everybody else.

The USA should not accept those French people.

You're implying we'd let them continue with their un-American lives.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Annexation of Canada by the USA, Quebec will contribute to the Federal American Army like everybody else.

The USA should not accept those French people.

They won't be French once we are done with them!

[Risottia]

Allying with France.

The French North Atlantic Treaty Organiszation

L'OTANF, bordel!

France: granting freedom from Anglophone tyrants since 1776.

[Slarvainian]

Interesting thread. An important element is missing though. What military material a new sovereign Québec would be able to keep? Remember in 1995 when they planned to move every F-18? For the federal governement, the army belongs to them even though Québec paid its part (about 20%). What would you do then? No ship, no plane, no tanks, Québec would have to buy everything again. It would inevitably means nothing more than option 1.

Some of the most extremist elements wanted to ground the F-18s and put the officers in charge under arrest, just to make sure they aren't stealing our share of the airforce. But I don't think they would do it as it would increase the tension. If Russia after 1991 could find some profitable arrangements with her former republics, I'm sure Canada could do the same (we never know though) The moderates had suggested to negociate with Ottawa using the federal debt as a way to obtain military equipement. You take our stuff, we aren't paying our share of the debt anymore.

Nothing. Quebeker terrorists kill like 10 people of which a couple weren't even Canadian over a span of a couple of years. And any uprising or coup would be easily crushed

Hey we're terrorists now, great. First, that was in the 60s. It was 5, not 10, and no foreigner got killed. It's always a good idea to inform yourself before making statements like this on a country that you obviously don't know anything about.

It is not nearly so simple. First off you have to clarify what Quebec is, just because it separates doesn't mean its taking all its current territory with it. You must also look at things such as economic and political ties to the rest of Canada, as they may hinder any defense plan Quebec tried to put in place.

The federal governement can not strip Québec from its land. It simply does not have that power, never did.

The military equipment does belong to the Canadian government. It is Federal property. As well as you infrastructure. That is also federal property. I can see Quebec gaining control of the military infrastructure such as bases and airstrips and any DND owned harbours. The military equipment can be easily moved and is property of the federal government. But with that saying if the military infrastructure was such as land bases, airstrips and harbours, it gives Quebec the ability to build on this infrastructure slowly. starting off with a small armed forces.

[Marcurix]

Interesting thread. An important element is missing though. What military material a new sovereign Québec would be able to keep? Remember in 1995 when they planned to move every F-18? For the federal governement, the army belongs to them even though Québec paid its part (about 20%). What would you do then? No ship, no plane, no tanks, Québec would have to buy everything again. It would inevitably means nothing more than option 1.

Some of the most extremist elements wanted to ground the F-18s and put the officers in charge under arrest, just to make sure they aren't stealing our share of the airforce. But I don't think they would do it as it would increase the tension. If Russia after 1991 could find some profitable arrangements with her former republics, I'm sure Canada could do the same (we never know though) The moderates had suggested to negociate with Ottawa using the federal debt as a way to obtain military equipement. You take our stuff, we aren't paying our share of the debt anymore.

Nothing. Quebeker terrorists kill like 10 people of which a couple weren't even Canadian over a span of a couple of years. And any uprising or coup would be easily crushed

Hey we're terrorists now, great. First, that was in the 60s. It was 5, not 10, and no foreigner got killed. It's always a good idea to inform yourself before making statements like this on a country that you obviously don't know anything about.

It is not nearly so simple. First off you have to clarify what Quebec is, just because it separates doesn't mean its taking all its current territory with it. You must also look at things such as economic and political ties to the rest of Canada, as they may hinder any defense plan Quebec tried to put in place.

The federal governement can not strip Québec from its land. It simply does not have that power, never did.

Oh yes it can. You forget Quebec was granted large sections of its north by said federal government, that north is largely populated by aboriginal tribes that have no wish to separate and are under federal jurisdiction. It was quite the issue in the last referendum on the subject.

[Saint-Thor]

The problem with that is that the Soviet Union dissolved. Quebec wants to leave Confederation, that itself remains intact. So the Canadian government has no obligation to give Quebec anything, unlike Russia. When you end the lease on an apartment building, you don't take the fire detector and closet door with you.

The name and the regime changed, but it was basically Russia, the core of USSR, losing the various components of its empire. Russia was pretty much in charge of the USSR. It was their stuff. They could have kept everything (like they did with thee nuclear arsenal for example) but they hopefully chose a more realistic approach.

Hey we're terrorists now, great. First, that was in the 60s. It was 5, not 10, and no foreigner got killed. It's always a good idea to inform yourself before making statements like this on a country that you obviously don't know anything about.

Quebec ain't a country. A nation perhaps, but not a country.

Well, I don't think he would know anything about Canada in general either.

The military equipment does belong to the Canadian government. It is Federal property. As well as you infrastructure. That is also federal property. I can see Quebec gaining control of the military infrastructure such as bases and airstrips and any DND owned harbours. The military equipment can be easily moved and is property of the federal government. But with that saying if the military infrastructure was such as land bases, airstrips and harbours, it gives Quebec the ability to build on this infrastructure slowly. starting off with a small armed forces.

They couldn't take everything they can or want. They'd have to negociate. Québec benefits from a lot of instrument that could play a huge role during negociation. The quicker they solve things like that, the sooner they can expect stability and cooperation.

The federal governement can not strip Québec from its land. It simply does not have that power, never did.

Oh yes it can. You forget Quebec was granted large sections of its north by said federal government, that north is largely populated by aboriginal tribes that have no wish to separate and are under federal jurisdiction. It was quite the issue in the last referendum on the subject.

This may come as a shock to you but no, they cannot. Oh sure they granted all that land to Québec, because back then, Northern Québec belonged to the federal governement. Not anymore. Once you give, you can't take it back. Now, the only political power that can divide a province is its provincial legislative assembly. Here an official publication on the Act respecting the exercise of the fundamental rights and prerogatives of the Québec people and the Québec State: Take a look at chapter III article 9: http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.q ... 0_2_A.html

9. The territory of Québec and its boundaries cannot be altered except with the consent of the National Assembly.
The Government must ensure that the territorial integrity of Québec is maintained and respected.
2000, c. 46, s. 9.

One might say that those laws wouldn't apply if one of the province secedes. Not exactly. You see, you have that principle in international law called uti possidetis juris which basically mean that you keep what you already have. This rule has been rigorously applied in all recent cases in which states have attained sovereignty. For example, when the republics of the former Soviet Union became sovereign states, they kept their territory; indeed, respect for established borders was one of the international community's main criteria for recognizing the new states.

Many federalists like to play the First nations card. It doesn't take long to make them realize this is not in 1995 anymore. The "aboriginal tribes" as you call them, are no fools. They have no sympathy for the federal governement. At least, not anymore. They are constrantly laughed at by Canada, ignored if not despised. Sure they voted "NO" in 1995, but after many interesting concessions made by Québec in 2002 (the Peace of the Braves) and recently Bill 42 giving more power to the Eeyou Istchee (reprensenting the Cree of Northern Québec) than any other First nations in Canada, they might change their mind. Canada has yet to sign a similar agreement to implement its obligations. The independentists would grant a very large degree of autonomy to their First nations. Since that Idle No more thing, I think that even the Mohawks had their confidence eroded by the general indifference.

[The Tectonic Plates]

Scenario 2.

Quebec isn't going to get it's independence violently, America's Hat, with some help from the rest of it's body, would crush any armed rebellion. Only way to get independence would be peaceful referendum, and if peaceful referendum is how it's done, neither America nor Canada will really go to war with it and a light force is all that's necessary.

[Shofercia]

I have an idea. First, we must replace Bettman with RoboBettman. Then, we must use RoboBettman to ensure that all Canadian teams lose so strategically, that a riot gets started. Once the riots get started in seven out of eight of Canada's major cities, we fuel said riots by making fun of something that's really, hard-core Canadian. Like the Moose. Or Maple Syrup. Once the riots are in full swing, and Canada's military is occupied, Quebec declares independence! Viva la Quebec!

[Saint-Thor]

I have an idea. First, we must replace Bettman with RoboBettman. Then, we must use RoboBettman to ensure that all Canadian teams lose so strategically, that a riot gets started. Once the riots get started in seven out of eight of Canada's major cities, we fuel said riots by making fun of something that's really, hard-core Canadian. Like the Moose. Or Maple Syrup. Once the riots are in full swing, and Canada's military is occupied, Quebec declares independence! Viva la Quebec!

Hmm, not sure, RoboBettman might be destroyed before your plan comes to fruition.

[Shofercia]

I have an idea. First, we must replace Bettman with RoboBettman. Then, we must use RoboBettman to ensure that all Canadian teams lose so strategically, that a riot gets started. Once the riots get started in seven out of eight of Canada's major cities, we fuel said riots by making fun of something that's really, hard-core Canadian. Like the Moose. Or Maple Syrup. Once the riots are in full swing, and Canada's military is occupied, Quebec declares independence! Viva la Quebec!

Hmm, not sure, RoboBettman might be destroyed before your plan comes to fruition.

I have RoboRobin, erm RoboDaly as backup

[Ainin]

The problem with that is that the Soviet Union dissolved. Quebec wants to leave Confederation, that itself remains intact. So the Canadian government has no obligation to give Quebec anything, unlike Russia. When you end the lease on an apartment building, you don't take the fire detector and closet door with you.

The name and the regime changed, but it was basically Russia, the core of USSR, losing the various components of its empire. Russia was pretty much in charge of the USSR. It was their stuff. They could have kept everything (like they did with thee nuclear arsenal for example) but they hopefully chose a more realistic approach.

That's kind of the problem. Quebec isn't in charge of Canada, and Canada won't dissolve if Quebec leaves. Canada has no obligation to give Quebec a single penny's worth of federal assets. Again, with the apartment thing. If you end your lease on an apartment, do you take the toilet with you?

Quebec ain't a country. A nation perhaps, but not a country.

Well, I don't think he would know anything about Canada in general either.

Saruhan is from Newfoundland.

[Eta Voina]

Ban of maple syrup

[Kanery]

I'm not a huge expert on Canada, so could somebody please explain to me why Quebec would want to be independent of Canada?

[Eta Voina]

I'm not a huge expert on Canada, so could somebody please explain to me why Quebec would want to be independent of Canada?

Re-read the OP please

[Ainin]

I'm not a huge expert on Canada, so could somebody please explain to me why Quebec would want to be independent of Canada?

Clicky

[Farnhamia]

I'm not a huge expert on Canada, so could somebody please explain to me why Quebec would want to be independent of Canada?

French Canadians have been annoyed about not being part of France since 1763.

[Dakini]

The name and the regime changed, but it was basically Russia, the core of USSR, losing the various components of its empire. Russia was pretty much in charge of the USSR. It was their stuff. They could have kept everything (like they did with thee nuclear arsenal for example) but they hopefully chose a more realistic approach.

That's kind of the problem. Quebec isn't in charge of Canada, and Canada won't dissolve if Quebec leaves. Canada has no obligation to give Quebec a single penny's worth of federal assets. Again, with the apartment thing. If you end your lease on an apartment, do you take the toilet with you?

This isn't an apartment; it's more like a divorce. If Quebec leaves, it gets its share of assets and it has to take its share of Canada's debt.

Also, contrary to what was indicated earlier, Quebec can be broken up into pieces. This is something that I think comes out of the Clarity Act, but it was also deemed to be the case by the Supreme Court of Canada (if Canada is divisible, so too is Quebec). So if Quebec succeeds in getting a clear majority (e.g. more than 51% of the votes.. I think it's 60% now) for succession then different parts of Quebec could leave or stay. Given that the Anglophones and Allophones are overwhelmingly against separation (still) this means that Montreal (which is very multicultural) and the Eastern Townships (Anglophone) would likely stay with Canada and all the other parts would pick and choose as they will.

Well, I don't think he would know anything about Canada in general either.

Saruhan is from Newfoundland.

...which has its own separatist sentiments interestingly enough.

[The Blaatschapen]

France: granting freedom from Anglophone tyrants since 1776.

They got late into that game.

Netherlands: granting freedom from Anglophone tyrants since 1688