Best military option for a possible free Quebec?

[Slarvainian]

I'm currently in the research stage of writing a short story of where in a alternate world, Quebec has gained independence from Canada. A few years later a new PM is elected in Canada who is greatly in favour of reunifying the country especially when the maritime provinces are considering joining with the states. While doing my research I found Department of National Defence documents from the late 90's detailing the possible scenarios of a potential Quebec armed forces. There were 4 scenarios described which I have quoted bellow and have been translated quite well by Google.

Scenario 1
A defense armed force

In this first scenario, Quebec ensure its defense and armed forces to concentrate most of its resources to the security of its territory and humanitarian UN missions. Participation in alliances would be maintained but limited to a political and diplomatic representation.

Membership in NATO and NORAD would overcome the constraints inherent in a defense policy which is not based on an armed force.

To ensure the management responsibilities related to homeland security that are not assumed by the police, this scenario proposes the creation of a National Guard 6,400 people including a land component and air and maritime auxiliary services.

In addition, in this scenario, the contribution of Quebec in international missions based on a body of white people 2,500 peacekeepers. Both entities will be fully operational with an annual budget of $ 840 million over the first five years and a workforce of 8,900 people (instead of the 17,700 people employed by the Department of National Defence on the territory of Quebec).

The National Guard under the Department of Public Safety as the body of White Helmets would be placed under the responsibility of the Department of International Affairs.

The human, material and financial resources could be reduced by half compared to the current situation.

Scenario 2:
A lightly armed force

In this scenario, a sovereign Quebec would ensure his defense with a lightly armed force. The resources devoted to this sector would be lower than those spent in Quebec by the Ministry of National Defence, which would make substantial savings.

At the end of the restructuring period, the number required would be 12,100 people, while the average annual budget is $ 1.3 billion, to $ 925 million in the fifth year (a third of what Quebecers are paying for the defense sector.

Ground and air resources currently deployed on the territory Quebecois should be redeveloped. The army of Quebec would have a land force of 4,900 people and an air service 1,100 people. This would be given a new oriented support ground forces and abandon its responsibility interception mission. Quebec does not endow to a Navy and Coast Guard to leave the task of ensuring maritime safety.

The armed forces are composed of permanet personnel and reservists could be attached to the Ministry of Public Safety, under the responsibility of a Secretary of State. This structure, lighter than the Ministry of Defence, would achieve significant savings.

Participation in military alliances would be maintained. Within NATO, Quebec would favor the political process and provide technical support to NORAD. Contribution to the UN would be supported by a body of 2,500 White Helmets under the Ministry of International Affairs. This body would be assisted by a contingent of 400 peacekeepers from the Earth's military force.

The human, material and financial resources could be reduced by at least one third compared to the current situation.

Scenario 3:
A military force restructured

In this scenario, a sovereign Quebec would ensure his defense with an armed force restructured, using and streamlining resources currently deployed on its territory in order to maintain the same number of people (17,700), while slightly reducing the financial resources required .

The average anneul budget would be $ 1.8 billion over five years, 10% less than the current expenditures of the Department of National Defence in Quebec (1993-94 amounted to $ 2 billion).

This restructuring would allow Quebec to realize cost, all missions. The armed forces continue to be made permanent and réservistes.Le military command and staff would be placed under the responsibility of the Ministry of Defence.

Resources restructured armed forces would be concentrated on land defense (6,900 people) and air (2,500 people). Coast Guard assume responsibility for ensuring the safety of the maritime area.

Participation in military alliances would be maintained. Quebec contribute to preserving capacity NORAD air intercept (F-18) adapted to the needs of a sovereign Quebec. Resources and staff of the Air Force would be increased as well.

Quebec would assist the activities of the NATO military authorities, without affecting troops, permanently, the Atlantic Alliance in peacetime.

A sovereign Quebec will actively contribute to the promotion of peace and international security, with the provision of a contingent of 2,400 UN peacekeepers and a civilian corps of 2,500 White Helmets.

Human resources required to implement this scenario would be a comparable level to the present situation.

Scenario 4:
Increased armed force

In this scenario, a sovereign Quebec would ensure his defense with increased strength, using all the resources deployed on its territory and gradually increasing the human, material and financial resources available to the Department of Defense.

At the end of the five-year period, the total number would reach 25,800 people, 8,100 more than at present. The financial resources allocated to defense would be $ 2.3 billion in the fifth year, while the annual average, every five years, would be $ 2.7 billion.

In addition to being made permanent and military reservists to have a Ministry of Defence and a unified command, the military would be based on a land force of 6,900 people, an air force of 3,800 people. Unlike other scenarios, Quebec would develop a marine equipped with ten ships.

Quebec could participate in the collective defense of North America (NORAD). In addition, it could provide military support to NATO by the deployment of a battalion group of fast reaction, but constantly maintain troops in peacetime outside its territory.

Quebec collaborate in efforts to promote peace and international security, by making available to the 3,700 UN peacekeepers and 3,000 White Helmets.

The analysis of the conditions for the implementation of this scéario indicates that the required human resources require hiring 8,100 people.

Source: http://archives.vigile.net/armee/etudes.html

In my opinion, scenario 2 would be the best option. Allowing Quebec to deal with its own domestic and national defence, and also be able to maintain membership with organizations like NATO. It also doesn't put to much financial strain on the new nation and also allows opportunity to grow its armed forces over time.

My question I'm putting forwards is if Quebec gained independence, what scenario do you view as the best option for a independent Quebec for a possible armed forces?

Note: This is not how Quebec will become free but if it did how would it's armed forces be formed.

[Denway]

#1

I'm going to say a coup de etat by nationalists.

Military wise. Most likely a Quebec state would be voted in by the ballot.

[Saruhan]

Nothing. Quebeker terrorists kill like 10 people of which a couple weren't even Canadian over a span of a couple of years. And any uprising or coup would be easily crushed

[Slarvainian]

This is not how Quebec will become free but if it did how would it's armed forces be formed.

[Denway]

This is not how Quebec will become free but if it did how would it's armed forces be formed.

Unless Canada becomes hostile to them, then #2. I don't see the Quebecois, unlike the French, taking an active role in international affairs and then having the need to build up their military.

[United Furry Alliance]

I'd say Quebec would go with either 1 or 3 depending on how pissed off Canada is and the how the world views the situation.

[Grand Britannia]

First one if Canada accepts their independence. Last one if not.

None if the U.S decides that "lol you r staying Canadian".

[Anachronous Rex]

Well they should obviously form an alliance with the Iroquois Nation, the Metis Confederacy, the CSA, and Deseret.

[Pope Joan]

Light arms, quick response force, an Arctic navy, and a defense treaty with Russia giving them access to Canada's North Coast.

[United Kingdom of Muffins]

First one if Canada accepts their independence. Last one if not.

None if the U.S decides that "lol you r staying Canadian".

In my opinion the 4 equal options are
a. Stay part of Canada
b. Rejoin France
c. Shut up
d. Be turned into a nuclear waste dump

[Marcurix]

It is not nearly so simple. First off you have to clarify what Quebec is, just because it separates doesn't mean its taking all its current territory with it. You must also look at things such as economic and political ties to the rest of Canada, as they may hinder any defense plan Quebec tried to put in place.

[Diopolis]

Well they should obviously form an alliance with the Iroquois Nation, the Metis Confederacy, the CSA, and Deseret.

The kingdom of hawaii will provide for their defensive needs. *nods*

[Dakini]

Light arms, quick response force, an Arctic navy, and a defense treaty with Russia giving them access to Canada's North Coast.

...Quebec makes up part of Canada's north coast.

If they leave, they get that part. They don't get the territories though because that's not theirs to claim so they wouldn't share a border with Russia. There would probably be some issues over Labrador since Quebec seems to stake some claim to that (the French maps of Canada always have it hashed out like it's neither part of Quebec nor part of Newfoundland).

[Dakini]

It is not nearly so simple. First off you have to clarify what Quebec is, just because it separates doesn't mean its taking all its current territory with it. You must also look at things such as economic and political ties to the rest of Canada, as they may hinder any defense plan Quebec tried to put in place.

This too. If memory serves, it looks like Quebec separating means that the area around Quebec City goes pretty much since everyone else doesn't tend to want to separate.

[Arcturus Novus]

How about a peaceful route instead? Like, oh I don't know, a referendum? Like the Scots are doing?

[Dakini]

How about a peaceful route instead? Like, oh I don't know, a referendum? Like the Scots are doing?

That is how Quebec would leave if it does. They haven't had a referendum in quite a while though and the separatist sentiment has died down a lot since the last one.

[Ostroeuropa]

keep the armed forces united is probably a good option.
Canada only really acts in NATO and UN peacekeeping.
And if Canada or Quebec were invaded by someone, it's an easy case to make that it's a pressing national security matter for both.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Weaponised poutine.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Weaponised poutine.

And lumberjack commandos wielding beaver nunchunks.

[Surfistan]

A few catapults and 400 crossbowmen will keep those damn English at bay, the nobility should also raise their own levies from the peasantry and must buy suits of armour to defend the rightfull king of Quebec.

[Saint-Thor]

Interesting thread. An important element is missing though. What military material a new sovereign Québec would be able to keep? Remember in 1995 when they planned to move every F-18? For the federal governement, the army belongs to them even though Québec paid its part (about 20%). What would you do then? No ship, no plane, no tanks, Québec would have to buy everything again. It would inevitably means nothing more than option 1.

Some of the most extremist elements wanted to ground the F-18s and put the officers in charge under arrest, just to make sure they aren't stealing our share of the airforce. But I don't think they would do it as it would increase the tension. If Russia after 1991 could find some profitable arrangements with her former republics, I'm sure Canada could do the same (we never know though) The moderates had suggested to negociate with Ottawa using the federal debt as a way to obtain military equipement. You take our stuff, we aren't paying our share of the debt anymore.

Nothing. Quebeker terrorists kill like 10 people of which a couple weren't even Canadian over a span of a couple of years. And any uprising or coup would be easily crushed

Hey we're terrorists now, great. First, that was in the 60s. It was 5, not 10, and no foreigner got killed. It's always a good idea to inform yourself before making statements like this on a country that you obviously don't know anything about.

It is not nearly so simple. First off you have to clarify what Quebec is, just because it separates doesn't mean its taking all its current territory with it. You must also look at things such as economic and political ties to the rest of Canada, as they may hinder any defense plan Quebec tried to put in place.

The federal governement can not strip Québec from its land. It simply does not have that power, never did.

[Ainin]

Interesting thread. An important element is missing though. What military material a new sovereign Québec would be able to keep? Remember in 1995 when they planned to move every F-18? For the federal governement, the army belongs to them even though Québec paid its part (about 20%). What would you do then? No ship, no plane, no tanks, Québec would have to buy everything again. It would inevitably means nothing more than option 1.

Some of the most extremist elements wanted to ground the F-18s and put the officers in charge under arrest, just to make sure they aren't stealing our share of the airforce. But I don't think they would do it as it would increase the tension. If Russia after 1991 could find some profitable arrangements with her former republics, I'm sure Canada could do the same (we never know though) The moderates had suggested to negociate with Ottawa using the federal debt as a way to obtain military equipement. You take our stuff, we aren't paying our share of the debt anymore.

The problem with that is that the Soviet Union dissolved. Quebec wants to leave Confederation, that itself remains intact. So the Canadian government has no obligation to give Quebec anything, unlike Russia. When you end the lease on an apartment building, you don't take the fire detector and closet door with you.

Hey we're terrorists now, great. First, that was in the 60s. It was 5, not 10, and no foreigner got killed. It's always a good idea to inform yourself before making statements like this on a country that you obviously don't know anything about.

Quebec ain't a country. A nation perhaps, but not a country.

[Phocidaea]

Scenario 5: Surrender. A Frenchman by any other name.

[The North Polish Union]

Quebec is a haven for terrorists and nationalists and the French-speaking population should finally be assimilated into the majority.

The only fun thing to do with Québécois people is to constantly remind them of the Plains of Abraham.

[Risottia]

My question I'm putting forwards is if Quebec gained independence, what scenario do you view as the best option for a independent Quebec for a possible armed forces?

Allying with France.