NYT: Jeep Cherokee, culturally insenstive??

[Sociobiology]

No my point is you have to be looking for something to complain about, if you have a problem with a a company that named their vehicles after anything that could be associated with the western US 40 years ago, I would not be surprised if there are more people complaining that they only named if after one tribe and not other tribes.

It is not like it is the only car named after a native american tribe, Apache, Dakota, Winnebago, Pontiac...
or after ethnic groups, Touareg, Mongol...

And all of those are examples of cultural insensitivity. Using the name of an ethnic/cultural group without concern for their feelings on the usage is the definition of cultural insensitivity. So, it's not a matter of looking for something tl complain about, it's a matter of knowing what the words mean.

which car companies are not exactly known for, having named cars after prostitutes, pedophiles, bodily functions, masturbation, insults...
And again my point is it as named forty years ago, at that time cultural sensitivity was not even a meaningful phrase. This is looking for something to complain about.

[Every Name is Taken on Here]

'Cultural sensitivity' is a disease that's breaking up economies, political entities and cultures themselves. No, I do not think it's bad that they've named a car after a tribe - the members of which now have English as their first language, tend to live in comfortable suburban homes, have electricity and running water and televisions and internet, and work a normal job.

I agree.

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

And all of those are examples of cultural insensitivity. Using the name of an ethnic/cultural group without concern for their feelings on the usage is the definition of cultural insensitivity. So, it's not a matter of looking for something tl complain about, it's a matter of knowing what the words mean.

which car companies are not exactly known for, having named cars after prostitutes, pedophiles, bodily functions, masturbation, insults...
And again my point is it as named forty years ago, at that time cultural sensitivity was not even a meaningful phrase. This is looking for something to complain about.

Who's complaining? The OP asked a question, namely "Is Jeep's usage of the name 'Cherokee' culturally insensitivity?" The answer to that question is yes.

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

'Cultural sensitivity' is a disease that's breaking up economies, political entities and cultures themselves. No, I do not think it's bad that they've named a car after a tribe - the members of which now have English as their first language, tend to live in comfortable suburban homes, have electricity and running water and televisions and internet, and work a normal job.

I agree.

So, I'm sure you can explain how the underlined is true...

[Northern Dominus]

Now, if Jeep were to make a new SUV and call it the Ojibwa or the Anishinaabe, would that be a bit different in your case, just out of curiosity?

I would disapprove greatly even if the tribal leaders were consulted and gave it their approval.

Even if Jeep went to great lengths to ensure the vehicle would embody as many positive traits as they could IE it was built in as eco-neutral of a way as possible, was hardy and able to tackle a wide variety of terrain, sported designs and colors that were informed by a tribal shaman etc. etc.?

And all of those are examples of cultural insensitivity. Using the name of an ethnic/cultural group without concern for their feelings on the usage is the definition of cultural insensitivity. So, it's not a matter of looking for something tl complain about, it's a matter of knowing what the words mean.

which car companies are not exactly known for, having named cars after prostitutes, pedophiles, bodily functions, masturbation, insults...
And again my point is it as named forty years ago, at that time cultural sensitivity was not even a meaningful phrase. This is looking for something to complain about.

Which again is a fair point. The article rants about the Cherokee yet somehow fails to mention other companies doing the same thing to tribes around the world, like Volkswagen and their Touareg...

'Cultural sensitivity' is a disease that's breaking up economies, political entities and cultures themselves. No, I do not think it's bad that they've named a car after a tribe - the members of which now have English as their first language, tend to live in comfortable suburban homes, have electricity and running water and televisions and internet, and work a normal job.

I agree.

Because no Cherokees live on a reservation where resources are scarce and crime is rampant right?

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

I would disapprove greatly even if the tribal leaders were consulted and gave it their approval.

Even if Jeep went to great lengths to ensure the vehicle would embody as many positive traits as they could IE it was built in as eco-neutral of a way as possible, was hardy and able to tackle a wide variety of terrain, sported designs and colors that were informed by a tribal shaman etc. etc.?

Well, that could work.

[Sociobiology]

which car companies are not exactly known for, having named cars after prostitutes, pedophiles, bodily functions, masturbation, insults...
And again my point is it as named forty years ago, at that time cultural sensitivity was not even a meaningful phrase. This is looking for something to complain about.

Which again is a fair point. The article rants about the Cherokee yet somehow fails to mention other companies doing the same thing to tribes around the world, like Volkswagen and their Touareg...

one of these days I can talk about the names for various animal species native to the Americas.
Like the

niggerhead clam

, which ,I shit you not, is the actual name for one of the Mississippi clam species harvested to nearly to extinction, and named after the high quality pale green pearls with one black end that they regularly produce,that bears the same name in Italy were such pearls are a rare occurrence in the Italian native clams.

complaining about cultural sensitivity today is one thing complaining about it in the past is like complaining that water is wet.

[Ethel mermania]

cultrually insesitive? no.

if were called "redskins" i would agree it was insesituve. cherokee is a tribe name, the car is named in honor of the tribe.

interesting for this coversation the "grand cherokee" is the top of the jeep lineup. the car named after the white boyz, "the wrangler", is at the bottom.

[Northern Dominus]

Even if Jeep went to great lengths to ensure the vehicle would embody as many positive traits as they could IE it was built in as eco-neutral of a way as possible, was hardy and able to tackle a wide variety of terrain, sported designs and colors that were informed by a tribal shaman etc. etc.?

Well, that could work.

Which is my contention with using tribal names. If you're going to do that and evoque the image of the tribe, at least have a vehicle that backs up the traits. Which is why this new Cherokee is a bit of an insult, it's a porky bastard that is a bit better than your typical soft-roader, but not that much, certainly not more capable than an equivalent Land Rover. The least they could have done is infuse it with some Wrangler DNA to make it better off-road.

Which is why I hope they resurrect the Comanche name for the first US tiltrotor attack aircraft. Only such a fast, deadly and versatile weapon would be worthy of such a name.

Which again is a fair point. The article rants about the Cherokee yet somehow fails to mention other companies doing the same thing to tribes around the world, like Volkswagen and their Touareg...

one of these days I can talk about the names for various animal species native to the Americas.
Like the

niggerhead clam

, which ,I shit you not, is the actual name for one of the Mississippi clam species harvested to nearly to extinction, and named after the high quality pale green pearls with one black end that they regularly produce,that bears the same name in Italy were such pearls are a rare occurrence in the Italian native clams.

It's amazing what us white folks thought was ok over the years isn't it?

[Sociobiology]

one of these days I can talk about the names for various animal species native to the Americas.
Like the

niggerhead clam

, which ,I shit you not, is the actual name for one of the Mississippi clam species harvested to nearly to extinction, and named after the high quality pale green pearls with one black end that they regularly produce,that bears the same name in Italy were such pearls are a rare occurrence in the Italian native clams.

It's amazing what us white folks thought was ok over the years isn't it?

Oh its not just white people, it just we have more English records of such things from white people.
cultural insensitivity is to history what wet is to water.

[Northern Dominus]

cultrually insesitive? no.

if were called "redskins" i would agree it was insesituve. cherokee is a tribe name, the car is named in honor of the tribe.

interesting for this coversation the "grand cherokee" is the top of the jeep lineup. the car named after the white boyz, "the wrangler", is at the bottom.

And yet the porky fat-bastard Cherokee is far less capable off-road than the Wrangler...

[Ethel mermania]

cultrually insesitive? no.

if were called "redskins" i would agree it was insesituve. cherokee is a tribe name, the car is named in honor of the tribe.

interesting for this coversation the "grand cherokee" is the top of the jeep lineup. the car named after the white boyz, "the wrangler", is at the bottom.

And yet the porky fat-bastard Cherokee is far less capable off-road than the Wrangler...

which vehicle would you rather drive 100 miles in?

the indian wins, it is much more civilized.

[Northern Dominus]

And yet the porky fat-bastard Cherokee is far less capable off-road than the Wrangler...

which vehicle would you rather drive 100 miles in?

the indian wins, it is much more civilized.

Depends, what terrain does the 100 miles cover?

[Ethel mermania]

which vehicle would you rather drive 100 miles in?

the indian wins, it is much more civilized.

Depends, what terrain does the 100 miles cover?

anything but the rubicon

[Costa Fuar]

As a Cherokee Native myself, I don't find anything wrong with it. If anything, Its an honor to have such a great vehicle named after my tribe. A lot of my family drive these as well.

[Northern Dominus]

Depends, what terrain does the 100 miles cover?

anything but the rubicon

Still the Wrangler. It's more capable off road, it's tougher, and I won't be mistaken for a soccer mom or some suburban twerp in it.

[Ethel mermania]

anything but the rubicon

Still the Wrangler. It's more capable off road, it's tougher, and I won't be mistaken for a soccer mom or some suburban twerp in it.

your kidneys are not very fond of you are they?

[Northern Dominus]

Still the Wrangler. It's more capable off road, it's tougher, and I won't be mistaken for a soccer mom or some suburban twerp in it.

your kidneys are not very fond of you are they?

My kidneys are well attached and not at all abused by holding it in for too long thank you.

[Ethel mermania]

your kidneys are not very fond of you are they?

My kidneys are well attached and not at all abused by holding it in for too long thank you.

keep shaken em up in the wrangler and they woln't be,

personal experience is a cruel teacher, but the wrangler is molre fun, the cherolee is more refined.

[New Maldorainia]

As a Cherokee Native myself, I don't find anything wrong with it. If anything, Its an honor to have such a great vehicle named after my tribe. A lot of my family drive these as well.

So, you enjoy the name, that is interesting.

[Northern Dominus]

My kidneys are well attached and not at all abused by holding it in for too long thank you.

keep shaken em up in the wrangler and they woln't be,

personal experience is a cruel teacher, but the wrangler is molre fun, the cherolee is more refined.

Fun trumps refinement any day in my book.
Refinement is for dull people

[Forsakia]

Does that also make it culturally insensitive for us to call Irish made whiskey Irish? Or a French kiss a French kiss?

Using a derogatory term for something would be culturally insensitive, yes (example: Washington Redskins. God I hate them), but using a proper name? Not so much.

This is actually getting close to the crux of the issue. Irish Whiskey made by Irish is a badge of cultural 'ownership' which actively honours the cultural history of the product in question. French kissing is a bit more iffy but it does acknowledge a supposed cultural association. The importance of cultural association and commercial products can be seen in the French actively protecting use of the name 'Champagne'.

Jeep using the name Cherokee does nothing to honour the cultural history of the vehicle because Jeep has no cultural connection to the people in question. If they had at least consulted then a connection might have been established, but until it does the use of the name is exploitive. It might be minor on the scale of all issues to worry about but if the French can protect the name Champagne then why shouldn't first nations have the same right to their own names too?

We'll have to find a new word for lesbians I suppose.

[Geilinor]

Also I should add that GM had a car brand called Pontiac, named after a chief Pontiac of the Ottawa tribe, and no one ever asked if that was culturally insensitive, even in modern times.

Someone should have, because it was. Assuming, of course, that GM didn't ask Ottawa tribal leaders if it was okay for them to do so.

Doubt anyone thought of it in the 70's.

Exactly. The use of it was culturally insensitive.

Why didn't you criticize the Grand Cherokee before? Jeep hasn't decided to bring Cherokee back after getting rid of it because it was insensitive. It's been around continuously since 1993. Also, the Volkswagen Touaraeg.

[Geilinor]

I am sure after using Grand Cherokee for so long without a peep, Chrysler never thought anyone would bring this issue up, which I do not blame them for.

I am primarily referring to the initial use.

It's okay if "grand" is in the name, but not okay if "grand" isn't used? Don't dodge the question.

[Geilinor]

Look, to be fair at least Jeep isn't delving into bad 50s stereotypes. To name a car or anything a "redskin" these days would be met with a lot of back-blast and vitriol, or any other derogatory name as well. I agree it's not exactly forward thinking of them to just resurrect a name they've used for awhile, but at least they're not having an actor ride on horseback or using the image of the tribe to promote the vehicle in question, and maybe with enough scrutiny Jeep could be compelled to seek forgiveness and future permission from the tribe and donate to one of their charities.

Really all I'm looking for is acknowledgment of it being culturally insensitive. The usage isn't demeaning or derogatory, so no real harm is done by it. It is, however, a symptom of the disregard for foreign cultures.

The Cherokee are American citizens, you know. They aren't foreign anymore. They could try to sue Chrysler if they were actually upset about it, but it isn't like they'd get monetary damages for it. Or write a strongly worded letter.