Unilateral declaration of Palestinian statehood?

[Dododecapod]

Near as I can tell, you're whining about the Israelis not doing stuff. You haven't addressed the point: why should they? What benefit do they get from it? If you can't answer that, you have no concept that can ever work.

Then you can't tell much. I was countering, again, the assertion that Palestinians have to make concessions for peace, AGAIN. I know Israel won't do anything, I was making the point that THEY had to take action for peace. Perhaps you have heard of my friend "hypothetical situation."

Sure. But he has no place in a discussion of a real world problem. And you're completely wrong.

Like it or not, the Israelis don't have the power to make peace, even if they wanted to. All they can do is set things up so they eventually win the war - and they have.

To make peace at this point, you would have to A: Stop HAMAS (and to a lesser extent Hezbollah and al Aqsa) from attacking Israel from Palestine and B: Convince Israel that this has been done. A: would be difficult, but not impossible provided the Palestinians took the attempt seriously, as a group, not just governmental figures. B: would then be relatively easy - If no attacks originate from Palestine for a period of time, and anyone who attempts to do so is arrested and tried, you have a clear position.

Once this is done, you put pressure on Israel to allow interaction between the two economies. Like any two neighbours, each will have something the other wants, even if it's just cheap labour. In doing this, you make the Palestinians of value to the Israelis - at this point for the first time, Israel actually has some reason to change it's policies. And with a good enough reason, they will.

I don't think it will happen. Palestine is going to walk it's stiff-necked, stupid pride all the way to cultural extinction, Israel will wind up with the entire area, and in the end, no one will care.

[The_pantless_hero]

Near as I can tell, you're whining about the Israelis not doing stuff. You haven't addressed the point: why should they? What benefit do they get from it? If you can't answer that, you have no concept that can ever work.

Then you can't tell much. I was countering, again, the assertion that Palestinians have to make concessions for peace, AGAIN. I know Israel won't do anything, I was making the point that THEY had to take action for peace. Perhaps you have heard of my friend "hypothetical situation."

Sure. But he has no place in a discussion of a real world problem. And you're completely wrong.

Like it or not, the Israelis don't have the power to make peace, even if they wanted to. All they can do is set things up so they eventually win the war - and they have.

Wrong. Israel pulls all the strings. They are the ones blockading the West Bank and part of the reason Egypt is blockading the West Bank. They are the ones building in Gaza. They are the ones with the tanks, bombs, and planes. How the fuck does Israel not have the power to make peace?

To make peace at this point, you would have to A: Stop HAMAS (and to a lesser extent Hezbollah and al Aqsa) from attacking Israel from Palestine

Completely irrelevant. Israel holds the strings. Israel decides on what attacks from Hamas does to the freedom of Palestine.

Convince Israel that this has been done.

No. Convince Israel to open up the blockade and stop building in Gaza. Those are conditions of peace.

I don't think it will happen. Palestine is going to walk it's stiff-necked, stupid pride all the way to cultural extinction, Israel will wind up with the entire area, and in the end, no one will care.

PALESTINE. HOLDS. NO. STRINGS. It has nothing left to give up. The only "concession" Palestine has to make is stop terrorist attacks from terrorist organizations, half of which are fighting Hamas as well. That's not a fucking concession, that's bullshit. I have an idea, maybe Israel (WHO HOLDS ALL THE GOD DAMN STRINGS) make some concessions which would remove the disenfranchisement from Palestine and discourage popular support of terrorism.

You don't happen to be Jewish do you.

[Dododecapod]

Near as I can tell, you're whining about the Israelis not doing stuff. You haven't addressed the point: why should they? What benefit do they get from it? If you can't answer that, you have no concept that can ever work.

Then you can't tell much. I was countering, again, the assertion that Palestinians have to make concessions for peace, AGAIN. I know Israel won't do anything, I was making the point that THEY had to take action for peace. Perhaps you have heard of my friend "hypothetical situation."

Sure. But he has no place in a discussion of a real world problem. And you're completely wrong.

Like it or not, the Israelis don't have the power to make peace, even if they wanted to. All they can do is set things up so they eventually win the war - and they have.

Wrong. Israel pulls all the strings. They are the ones blockading the West Bank and part of the reason Egypt is blockading the West Bank. They are the ones building in Gaza. They are the ones with the tanks, bombs, and planes. How the fuck does Israel not have the power to make peace?

To make peace at this point, you would have to A: Stop HAMAS (and to a lesser extent Hezbollah and al Aqsa) from attacking Israel from Palestine

Completely irrelevant. Israel holds the strings. Israel decides on what attacks from Hamas does to the freedom of Palestine.

Convince Israel that this has been done.

No. Convince Israel to open up the blockade and stop building in Gaza. Those are conditions of peace.

I don't think it will happen. Palestine is going to walk it's stiff-necked, stupid pride all the way to cultural extinction, Israel will wind up with the entire area, and in the end, no one will care.

PALESTINE. HOLDS. NO. STRINGS. It has nothing left to give up. The only "concession" Palestine has to make is stop terrorist attacks from terrorist organizations, half of which are fighting Hamas as well. That's not a fucking concession, that's bullshit. I have an idea, maybe Israel (WHO HOLDS ALL THE GOD DAMN STRINGS) make some concessions which would remove the disenfranchisement from Palestine and discourage popular support of terrorism.

You don't happen to be Jewish do you.

Not that it should matter, but no. I consider myself an Atheist.

You are right to a certain extent - the Israelis could make peace. Genocide of the Palestinians is a possibility.

Otherwise, frankly, you're talking nonsense.

Israel CANNOT make peace otherwise. They could do EVERYTHING you ask, and it would not make peace. Chop down the settlements, open the borders. No Peace. Give the Palestinians the 1967 borders. No Peace. Give them the fucking 1948 borders! STILL NO PEACE.

You see, you've entirely lost sight of WHOM is attacking WHOM here. The entire history of the Palestinian/Israeli relationship has been paved with Israeli blood. You can't see it because there's even MORE Palestinian blood over the top, from when Israel struck BACK. But it's there.

Who started shooting back in the '40s is debatable, and at this point, pretty much irrelevant anyway. What is relevant, and abundently clear from the historical record, has been that ever since, the Palestinians have been hosting and supporting organizations that have been actively trying to murder as many Israelis as they can get their filthy hands on. Some were governments; some were government supported; some were just grassroots movements. But they kept on attacking Israel, with bombs and rockets and car bombs and suiciders, machineguns, assault rifles, pistols, thrown rocks, sticks, whatever they could use. And they have never stopped.

Israel, for all it's power, for all it's technology, can bring no peace save that of the grave. The Palestinians, for all your BS about them holding "no strings", can.