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SCOTUS SSM rulings: DOMA overturned, Prop 8 gone

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:13 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Then why continue to worship God?

Because I recognize that there is a higher power than myself, or the president, or any human.


Why not the Devil, seeing as how you figure you'll be sent to his domain anyhow?
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 202544
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:13 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:X
Which means we don't need to take you seriously. Got it.


Again, we're being rolled.


Gren, I'm aware.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Corporate Police State

Postby Valcouria » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:13 pm

Liriena wrote:
Choronzon wrote:It must be great to follow a religion where you can violate a great deal of the core commands and still be good as long as you say sorry to a man wearing a white collar.

Talk about an easy gig.

But if you dare be a good, decent guy without brown-nosing the sky fairy...oh, you stupid motherfucker...you're gonna get burned!

Yeah, easy gig.

Screw personal responsibility.

I have already stated my belief that I am bound for purgatory...your comments are superfluous and unnecessary.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13979
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Then why continue to worship God?

Because I recognize that there is a higher power than myself, or the president, or any human.

Well I don't.

Neither does the law.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 202544
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Liriena wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Again, I take this as a compliment from you.

"A mí me rebota y a vos the explota." :roll:


Hehe, this made me laugh.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Corporate Police State

Postby Valcouria » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Bralia wrote:
Valcouria wrote:I am here to show that there are people like me who, in the face of pressure, will not bow to popular pressure of the left.

But is that really considered productive for you? Standing your ground against the fury of the left isn't exactly going to further your cause . . .

I keep my integrity...which is something I value over being 'popular' or 'correct' to the left anyway.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:15 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Liriena wrote:But if you dare be a good, decent guy without brown-nosing the sky fairy...oh, you stupid motherfucker...you're gonna get burned!

Yeah, easy gig.

Screw personal responsibility.

I have already stated my belief that I am bound for purgatory...your comments are superfluous and unnecessary.


The comment was not directed at you so...yeah. Take that bullshit elsewhere.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Again, we're being rolled.


Gren, I'm aware.


I'm still arguing...just in case he's actually serious.
You never know with some people. I've lived in Argentina long enough to know that people can have the most blatantly incoherent and immoral beliefs without suffering any sort of brain-frying cognitive dissonance.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:16 pm

Liriena wrote:
Valcouria wrote:I have already stated my belief that I am bound for purgatory...your comments are superfluous and unnecessary.


The comment was not directed at you so...yeah. Take that bullshit elsewhere.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Gren, I'm aware.


I'm still arguing...just in case he's actually serious.
You never know with some people. I've lived in Argentina long enough to know that people can have the most blatantly incoherent and immoral beliefs without suffering any sort of brain-frying cognitive dissonance.


I'm doing it to show the lurkers that its bad.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 202544
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:16 pm

Liriena wrote:
Valcouria wrote:I have already stated my belief that I am bound for purgatory...your comments are superfluous and unnecessary.


The comment was not directed at you so...yeah. Take that bullshit elsewhere.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Gren, I'm aware.


I'm still arguing...just in case he's actually serious.
You never know with some people. I've lived in Argentina long enough to know that people can have the most blatantly incoherent and immoral beliefs without suffering any sort of brain-frying cognitive dissonance.


Understandable. I've seen this in Spain too. No place is free of it.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:16 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Liriena wrote:"A mí me rebota y a vos the explota." :roll:


Hehe, this made me laugh.

Arguing when we were children was so...easy...yet so tedious. :P

Valcouria wrote:
Bralia wrote:But is that really considered productive for you? Standing your ground against the fury of the left isn't exactly going to further your cause . . .

I keep my integrity...which is something I value over being 'popular' or 'correct' to the left anyway.


What integrity? You've pretty much admitted that you don't follow the rules of your own religion, that you believe in a government that does things that your own religion deems immoral.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:18 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Liriena wrote:
The comment was not directed at you so...yeah. Take that bullshit elsewhere.



I'm still arguing...just in case he's actually serious.
You never know with some people. I've lived in Argentina long enough to know that people can have the most blatantly incoherent and immoral beliefs without suffering any sort of brain-frying cognitive dissonance.


Understandable. I've seen this in Spain too. No place is free of it.


If a multimillionaire who owns five-star hotels can honestly claim to be a humble provincial middle-class woman who opposes the privileges of the urban middle class...then anyone can sincerely believe anything.
Last edited by Liriena on Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Corporate Police State

Postby Valcouria » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:18 pm

Ainin wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Because I recognize that there is a higher power than myself, or the president, or any human.

Well I don't.

Neither does the law.

Well, it should...after all, the concept of law comes from divine or divinely-inspired sources (depending on whether or not one counts ancient Babylonian rulers as 'gods', as they referred to themselves).
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 202544
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:18 pm

Liriena wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Hehe, this made me laugh.

Arguing when we were children was so...easy...yet so tedious. :P

Valcouria wrote:I keep my integrity...which is something I value over being 'popular' or 'correct' to the left anyway.


What integrity? You've pretty much admitted that you don't follow the rules of your own religion, that you believe in a government that does things that your own religion deems immoral.


"No me importa!"
"Come torta!"
"Tu mama la gorda!"

Yes, simple yet, tedious. :p
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Corporate Police State

Postby Valcouria » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:19 pm

Liriena wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Hehe, this made me laugh.

Arguing when we were children was so...easy...yet so tedious. :P

Valcouria wrote:I keep my integrity...which is something I value over being 'popular' or 'correct' to the left anyway.


What integrity? You've pretty much admitted that you don't follow the rules of your own religion, that you believe in a government that does things that your own religion deems immoral.

The integrity of keeping my beliefs pure and untainted by left-wing influence; if there is anything I pride myself in, it is this.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Death Metal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13542
Founded: Dec 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Death Metal » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:19 pm

Mkuki wrote:
Death Metal wrote:
I'm not sure, but I won't be surprised if Texas legalizes it before Florida.

Really? Why?


Well, Texas is starting to turn blue. Florida is so gerrymandered to hell that it's never going to be blue on the state government level, because even though the blue cities are growing faster than the red ones, the establishment basically remaps the districts with impunity so that they'll remain in control.

Plus being a corrupt male WASP is kind of a prerequisite to being Governor. We have a criminal in our governor's mansion right now, everyone knew it during he election, but he still won.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

User avatar
Vettrera
Senator
 
Posts: 4272
Founded: Dec 17, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Vettrera » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:20 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Liriena wrote:
I'd guess around a hundred, and twice as many Lord's Prayers. Plus an hour or two on your knees before the particularly scary cross in the church's side-chamber.

Sounds about right...maybe double...it would certainly be superior to learning about the disintegration of marriage, anyway.

I think marriage just got a hell of a lot better.
||International Achievements||
"In Search of That Which Cannot Be Seen"

User avatar
Bralia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31245
Founded: Mar 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bralia » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:20 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Bralia wrote:But is that really considered productive for you? Standing your ground against the fury of the left isn't exactly going to further your cause . . .

I keep my integrity...which is something I value over being 'popular' or 'correct' to the left anyway.

But what is your integrity going to gain for you? Couldn't your integrity be put to better use among your allies, wherever they may be?
Romantic slut. Self-deprecating egotist. Benevolent communist.

User avatar
Torcularis Septentrionalis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9398
Founded: May 05, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:20 pm

Vettrera wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Sounds about right...maybe double...it would certainly be superior to learning about the disintegration of marriage, anyway.

I think marriage just got a hell of a lot better.

indeed.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



20 year old female. Camgirl/student. Call me Torc/TS/Alix

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:20 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Ainin wrote:Well I don't.

Neither does the law.

Well, it should...after all, the concept of law comes from divine or divinely-inspired sources (depending on whether or not one counts ancient Babylonian rulers as 'gods', as they referred to themselves).

Nope.

Go back to school.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 202544
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Liriena wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Understandable. I've seen this in Spain too. No place is free of it.


If a multimillionaire who owns five-star hotels can honestly claim to be a humble provincial middle-class woman who opposes the privileges of the urban middle class...then anyone can sincerely believe anything.


I don't argue that. Anyone can believe anything, but online? More often than not, it's someone bored trying to get a rise out of others. But, carry on. Perhaps you end up teaching someone something worthwhile. What do I know?
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Because I recognize that there is a higher power than myself, or the president, or any human.


Why not the Devil, seeing as how you figure you'll be sent to his domain anyhow?


Hell, there's got to be some religion that worships a deity that endorses the shit you believe in. If not Devil-worship (and to the Satanists reading this, I recognize a difference between the Satan in Levayan Satanism and the Devil of Christianity), why not one of them?
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
Vettrera
Senator
 
Posts: 4272
Founded: Dec 17, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Vettrera » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Liriena wrote:Arguing when we were children was so...easy...yet so tedious. :P



What integrity? You've pretty much admitted that you don't follow the rules of your own religion, that you believe in a government that does things that your own religion deems immoral.

The integrity of keeping my beliefs pure and untainted by left-wing influence; if there is anything I pride myself in, it is this.

So you basically have your own personal sect of Christianity that follows bits and pieces of God's word, choosing which biblical rules to follow & which to ignore. Therefore, you can still call yourself "pure" :roll:
||International Achievements||
"In Search of That Which Cannot Be Seen"

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Liriena wrote:Arguing when we were children was so...easy...yet so tedious. :P



What integrity? You've pretty much admitted that you don't follow the rules of your own religion, that you believe in a government that does things that your own religion deems immoral.


"No me importa!"
"Come torta!"
"Tu mama la gorda!"

Yes, simple yet, tedious. :p


"Cuchillito que no corta!" :P
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
AiliailiA
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27722
Founded: Jul 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby AiliailiA » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Menassa wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Why? I'll tell you why. I fight for the status quo (and sometimes the status quo ante). I want to see the world as it was in the 1920s...which, to me, was the best time in world history; prosperity abounded, everyone was content, the market was free to do as it liked, and morality was strictly enforced. I want that again...not the immoral, vice-filled, shameless, pseudo-socialistic world that we live in today.

So you chose the roaring 20s?

I don't like the Sodom the world has become, I'm moving to Gomorrah.


I laughed.

Val would be stuck between the Great War and the Great Depression too. Possibly blind or missing a limb, and soon to be queuing for soup.
My name is voiced AIL-EE-AIL-EE-AH. My time zone: UTC.

Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
: eugenics :
What are the colons meant to convey here?
In my experience Colons usually convey shit

NSG junkie. Getting good shit for free, why would I give it up?

User avatar
Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Corporate Police State

Postby Valcouria » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:22 pm

Vettrera wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Sounds about right...maybe double...it would certainly be superior to learning about the disintegration of marriage, anyway.

I think marriage just got a hell of a lot better.

And I think you are o so very wrong...but then, you think I am wrong. An impasse.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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