US Gun Control (Yes, again).

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Do you dispute the fact that

1) Guns are not banned in America
2) Gun crimes are the highest in the United States among developed countries in both numbers and proportion of total crimes

???

Because these 2 things are common knowledge that need no citation I think. Unless I am wrong?

I dispute those things being a fact, yes. Some guns are banned in America. Some guns are banned in France. Name 1 country that has totally banned all guns. I also dispute your definition of 'developed countries', 'proportion of total crimes' (non-violent crimes included? No? Still BS). So yes, SOURCE!

And he actually thinks that representative democracy is the will of the people. He needs to get his facts straight.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Violent_crime_related_to_guns

''...Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it; however, most countries similar to the United States have a more secure social network. Higher gun-related death rates can be found in developing countries and countries with political instability.[28][32][33] However, developed countries with strict gun laws have essentially eliminated gun violence.[34][35][36][37]''

There you go...

1) Gun crimes in the USA are ridiculous

2) Gun bans can work... they have worked in developed countries with ''strict gun laws'' where gun violence is ''essentially eliminated.''


I don't think there is much of a point citing how guns are not banned in the USA.

Wikipedia is not a valid source.

[Jassysworth 1]

Do you dispute the fact that

1) Guns are not banned in America
2) Gun crimes are the highest in the United States among developed countries in both numbers and proportion of total crimes

???

Because these 2 things are common knowledge that need no citation I think. Unless I am wrong?

I dispute those things being a fact, yes. Some guns are banned in America. Some guns are banned in France. Name 1 country that has totally banned all guns. I also dispute your definition of 'developed countries', 'proportion of total crimes' (non-violent crimes included? No? Still BS). So yes, SOURCE!

It doesn't have to be completely banned... either completely banned or regulated to the point where the vast vast vast majority of people don't have guns (ex France).

Read the above post...

[Jassysworth 1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Violent_crime_related_to_guns

''...Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it; however, most countries similar to the United States have a more secure social network. Higher gun-related death rates can be found in developing countries and countries with political instability.[28][32][33] However, developed countries with strict gun laws have essentially eliminated gun violence.[34][35][36][37]''

There you go...

1) Gun crimes in the USA are ridiculous

2) Gun bans can work... they have worked in developed countries with ''strict gun laws'' where gun violence is ''essentially eliminated.''


I don't think there is much of a point citing how guns are not banned in the USA.

Wikipedia is not a valid source.

Yes it is... and the paragraph has a ton of citations.

This is not an academic forum....

[DuThaal Craftworld]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Violent_crime_related_to_guns

''...Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it; however, most countries similar to the United States have a more secure social network. Higher gun-related death rates can be found in developing countries and countries with political instability.[28][32][33] However, developed countries with strict gun laws have essentially eliminated gun violence.[34][35][36][37]''

There you go...

1) Gun crimes in the USA are ridiculous

2) Gun bans can work... they have worked in developed countries with ''strict gun laws'' where gun violence is ''essentially eliminated.''


I don't think there is much of a point citing how guns are not banned in the USA.

Now how is wikipedia defining economically and politically similar? What about similar in population? Similar in demographics? How does the gun crime rate against other violent crimes?
Also, it's WIKIPEDIA. Anybody can edit.
EDIT:

I dispute those things being a fact, yes. Some guns are banned in America. Some guns are banned in France. Name 1 country that has totally banned all guns. I also dispute your definition of 'developed countries', 'proportion of total crimes' (non-violent crimes included? No? Still BS). So yes, SOURCE!

It doesn't have to be completely banned... either completely banned or regulated to the point where the vast vast vast majority of people don't have guns (ex France).

Read the above post...

What majority? What demographics?

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Wikipedia is not a valid source.

Yes it is... and the paragraph has a ton of citations.

This is not an academic forum....

No it is not. If you want anybody here to take you seriously, find a real source and not a random paragraph taken straight from Wikipedia.

[Chemung]

That wikipedia article is supported by valid sources, I checked.


This list from wikipedia has slightly less reputable sources, but I would still consider valid. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_o ... by_country

[Jassysworth 1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Violent_crime_related_to_guns

''...Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it; however, most countries similar to the United States have a more secure social network. Higher gun-related death rates can be found in developing countries and countries with political instability.[28][32][33] However, developed countries with strict gun laws have essentially eliminated gun violence.[34][35][36][37]''

There you go...

1) Gun crimes in the USA are ridiculous

2) Gun bans can work... they have worked in developed countries with ''strict gun laws'' where gun violence is ''essentially eliminated.''


I don't think there is much of a point citing how guns are not banned in the USA.

Now how is wikipedia defining economically and politically similar? What about similar in population? Similar in demographics? How does the gun crime rate against other violent crimes?
Also, it's WIKIPEDIA. Anybody can edit.

Economically and politically similar means what you think it means. It's simple really... comparable standards of living, functional democratic systems, no political instability etc

Clearly, Britain and Germany would count... Russia and Vietnam wouldn't.

If you go to the page on crime in the USA it will tell you that there is a huge proportion of gun crimes in America that's unheard of anywhere else in the developped world. It's not surprising really...

Ban guns for a very long time in a developped country = gun crime becomes ''essentially eliminated''

Keep the guns un-banned... Well, you get America.

[DuThaal Craftworld]

That wikipedia article is supported by valid sources, I checked.


This list from wikipedia has slightly less reputable sources, but I would still consider valid. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_o ... by_country

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Now how is wikipedia defining economically and politically similar? What about similar in population? Similar in demographics? How does the gun crime rate against other violent crimes?
Also, it's WIKIPEDIA. Anybody can edit.

Economically and politically similar means what you think it means. It's simple really... comparable standards of living, functional democratic systems, no political instability etc

If you go to the page on crime in the USA it will tell you that there is a huge proportion of gun crimes in America that's unheard of anywhere else in the developped world. It's not surprising really...

Ban guns for a very long time in a developped country = gun crime becomes ''essentially eliminated''

Keep the guns un-banned... Well, you get America.

Link please. Also, what I think it means is likely different from what you think it means. What are you defining 'functioning democratic systems' as? What are you defining 'political instability' as? What is included in 'etc'? What is the 'huge proportions of gun crimes in america that's unheard of anywhere else in the developped world'? What are you defining 'developped' as?

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

That wikipedia article is supported by valid sources, I checked.


This list from wikipedia has slightly less reputable sources, but I would still consider valid. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_o ... by_country

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Not to mention that fact that America is the third largest country in the world by land and among the largest in terms of population. Of course it would have more gun crime than a tiny country like, say, Luxembourg.

[Jassysworth 1]

That wikipedia article is supported by valid sources, I checked.


This list from wikipedia has slightly less reputable sources, but I would still consider valid. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_o ... by_country

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Dude I learned this stuff like in high school....

America = largest number of gun crimes, larges proportion of gun crimes in the developed world (proportion meaning gun crimes as a percentage of total crimes)

Guns are nowhere near to completely banned in the USA.



Again, let's not waste time with a game of citation and googling. Why don't you tell me, which of these facts do you disagree with? I mean, the layman on the street can tell you these facts.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Dude I learned this stuff like in high school....

America = largest number of gun crimes, larges proportion of gun crimes in the developed world (proportion meaning gun crimes as a percentage of total crimes)

Guns are nowhere near to completely banned in the USA.



Again, let's not waste time with a game of citation and googling. Why don't you tell me, which of these facts do you disagree with? I mean, the layman on the street can tell you these facts.

Most of the developed world has less than 1/10th the population of the US. Of course Amerika would have more crime than the rest of the developed world if it has a large population!

[Chemung]

O.K. here is a better source that the wikipedia article cites. It is much more in depth than I care to do so at the moment. For simplicity sake, it is easier to post a wikipedia article and evaluate the accuracy of the sources then to post the sources themselves because they tend to bemuch more in depth.
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/publicat ... -2007.html

[Jassysworth 1]

That wikipedia article is supported by valid sources, I checked.


This list from wikipedia has slightly less reputable sources, but I would still consider valid. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_o ... by_country

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Economically and politically similar means what you think it means. It's simple really... comparable standards of living, functional democratic systems, no political instability etc

If you go to the page on crime in the USA it will tell you that there is a huge proportion of gun crimes in America that's unheard of anywhere else in the developped world. It's not surprising really...

Ban guns for a very long time in a developped country = gun crime becomes ''essentially eliminated''

Keep the guns un-banned... Well, you get America.

Link please. Also, what I think it means is likely different from what you think it means. What are you defining 'functioning democratic systems' as? What are you defining 'political instability' as? What is included in 'etc'? What is the 'huge proportions of gun crimes in america that's unheard of anywhere else in the developped world'? What are you defining 'developped' as?

I don't know how it's defined but since there's no elaboration, it's clearly defined in the most common sensical way possible.

So here are some of the countries that count as ''developped'': Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Japan

Here are some that don't: Vietnam, Russia, India, Nicaragua, Zimbabwe

Basically, any place that's either 1) an authoritarian regime/only quasi-democratic, 2) has sub-par living standards or has both 1 and 2 would not be ''politically'' or ''economically'' similar to the USA.

Just use the ''Does the Country Suck Balls Test.'' If a country passes the test (it sucks balls in some way... it's not democratic, it's a shit place to live in, it's not industrialized or whatever in a way that really stands out)... then it's not like the USA in the sense of the article.

Not complicated...

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Link please. Also, what I think it means is likely different from what you think it means. What are you defining 'functioning democratic systems' as? What are you defining 'political instability' as? What is included in 'etc'? What is the 'huge proportions of gun crimes in america that's unheard of anywhere else in the developped world'? What are you defining 'developped' as?

I don't know how it's defined but since there's no elaboration, it's clearly defined in the most common sensical way possible.

So here are some of the countries that count as ''developped'': Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Japan

Here are some that don't: Vietnam, Russia, India, Nicaragua, Zimbabwe

Basically, any place that's either 1) an authoritarian regime/only quasi-democratic, 2) has sub-par living standards or has both 1 and 2 would not be ''politically'' or ''economically'' similar to the USA.

Just use the ''Does the Country Suck Balls Test.'' If a country passes the test (it sucks balls in some way... it's not democratic, it's a shit place to live in, it's not industrialized or whatever in a way that really stands out)... then it's not like the USA in the sense of the article.

Not complicated...

Implying that all non democratic countries are shitty and undeveloped.

[Divair]

I don't know how it's defined but since there's no elaboration, it's clearly defined in the most common sensical way possible.

So here are some of the countries that count as ''developped'': Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Japan

Here are some that don't: Vietnam, Russia, India, Nicaragua, Zimbabwe

Basically, any place that's either 1) an authoritarian regime/only quasi-democratic, 2) has sub-par living standards or has both 1 and 2 would not be ''politically'' or ''economically'' similar to the USA.

Just use the ''Does the Country Suck Balls Test.'' If a country passes the test (it sucks balls in some way... it's not democratic, it's a shit place to live in, it's not industrialized or whatever in a way that really stands out)... then it's not like the USA in the sense of the article.

Not complicated...

Implying that all non democratic countries are shitty and undeveloped.

Name one modern non-democratic country that isn't.


Exactly.

[Jassysworth 1]

Dude I learned this stuff like in high school....

America = largest number of gun crimes, larges proportion of gun crimes in the developed world (proportion meaning gun crimes as a percentage of total crimes)

Guns are nowhere near to completely banned in the USA.



Again, let's not waste time with a game of citation and googling. Why don't you tell me, which of these facts do you disagree with? I mean, the layman on the street can tell you these facts.

Most of the developed world has less than 1/10th the population of the US. Of course Amerika would have more crime than the rest of the developed world if it has a large population!

From the same wikipedia page...

''In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified firearms.''

Find me a SINGLE country in which is 1) developed, 2) has a gun ban or a near complete gun ban.... AND has this embarrassing statistic (over 80% of homicides in 2005 or any year happen involving firearms). You won't find any.

CLEARLY... America has the highest proportion of gun crimes.

Tell me a single other developed country that has over 80% of their homicides done with GUNS. You won't find a single one.

[Republica Newland]

Until the gun control crowd accepts the fact that one has to possess basic knowledge about a certain subject in order to debate it, there will be no reasonable discussion. DeGette and others like her come to mind. We don't require you people to be walking gun encyclopedias, but this is just simply ridiculous. It's like I tried to debate abortion without knowing how childbirth looks like.

These are not obscure technicalities I am talking about here but rather the very basics. Failure to understand trivial concepts like magazines and that they can be reloaded or the difference between a gun that goes "pow" instead of "pow pow pow" when you pull the trigger instantly disqualifies the individual in question from any sort of serious discussion.

[DuThaal Craftworld]

I realize that wikipedia has sources; I just want to know about those sources.

Dude I learned this stuff like in high school....

America = largest number of gun crimes, larges proportion of gun crimes in the developed world (proportion meaning gun crimes as a percentage of total crimes)

Guns are nowhere near to completely banned in the USA.



Again, let's not waste time with a game of citation and googling. Why don't you tell me, which of these facts do you disagree with? I mean, the layman on the street can tell you these facts.

The fact where America has a 'huge proportion' of gun crimes. What is the proportion to? Also, the layman is good for gaining a grasp of emotions and feelings. But the intelligentsia- that's where we get a grasp of the facts. The truth. That's what we want, is it not?

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Most of the developed world has less than 1/10th the population of the US. Of course Amerika would have more crime than the rest of the developed world if it has a large population!

From the same wikipedia page...

''In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified firearms.''

Find me a SINGLE country in which is 1) developed, 2) has a gun ban or a near complete gun ban.... AND has this embarrassing statistic (over 80% of homicides in 2005 or any year happen involving firearms). You won't find any.

CLEARLY... America has the highest proportion of gun crimes.

Tell me a single other developed country that has over 80% of their homicides done with GUNS. You won't find a single one.

Find me a single actual source for this nonsense. Find a single reputatable source(Wikipedia is NOT reputable) then we might actually believe this.

[Chemung]

Implying that all non democratic countries are shitty and undeveloped.

Name one modern non-democratic country that isn't.


Exactly.

China, Cuba (debatable), Belarus...

[Jassysworth 1]

From the same wikipedia page...

''In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified firearms.''

Find me a SINGLE country in which is 1) developed, 2) has a gun ban or a near complete gun ban.... AND has this embarrassing statistic (over 80% of homicides in 2005 or any year happen involving firearms). You won't find any.

CLEARLY... America has the highest proportion of gun crimes.

Tell me a single other developed country that has over 80% of their homicides done with GUNS. You won't find a single one.

Find me a single actual source for this nonsense. Find a single reputatable source(Wikipedia is NOT reputable) then we might actually believe this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violen ... ted_States

''The incidence of homicides committed with a firearm in the US is much greater than some other advanced countries. In the United States in 2009 United Nations statistics record 3.0 intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants; for comparison, the figure for the United Kingdom, with where handguns are prohibited was 0.07 per 100,000, about 40 times lower, and for Germany 0.2.[51] Gun Homicides in Switzerland however are similarly low, at 0.52 in 2010[52] even though they rank third in the world for highest number of guns per citizen.[52]''

Why? You don't like the truth that wikipedia is spewing out about the nature of gun violence in the USA?

[Republica Newland]

Name one modern non-democratic country that isn't.


Exactly.

China, Cuba (debatable), Belarus...

Have you been drinking?

[DuThaal Craftworld]

Name one modern non-democratic country that isn't.


Exactly.

China, Cuba (debatable), Belarus...

Technically (read; officially) China is a democracy. But so is North Korea, so…

Find me a single actual source for this nonsense. Find a single reputatable source(Wikipedia is NOT reputable) then we might actually believe this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violen ... ted_States

''The incidence of homicides committed with a firearm in the US is much greater than some other advanced countries. In the United States in 2009 United Nations statistics record 3.0 intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants; for comparison, the figure for the United Kingdom, with where handguns are prohibited was 0.07 per 100,000, about 40 times lower, and for Germany 0.2.[51] Gun Homicides in Switzerland however are similarly low, at 0.52 in 2010[52] even though they rank third in the world for highest number of guns per citizen.[52]''

Why? You don't like the truth that wikipedia is spewing out about the nature of gun violence in the USA?

Wikipedia: Layman. Good for emotions. Needed; intelligentsia

[Chemung]

O.K. here is a better source that the wikipedia article cites. It is much more in depth than I care to do so at the moment. For simplicity sake, it is easier to post a wikipedia article and evaluate the accuracy of the sources then to post the sources themselves because they tend to bemuch more in depth.
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/publicat ... -2007.html