little boy raped with pencil, builds character

[Resora]

So might-is-right, then? Hope you won't mind the red revolutions we're going to start seeing in the next few decades as unsustainable wealth inequality and environmental degradation prick the public consciousness.


No, it's not.

Yes it is. To say that Democracy is subjugated to morality is to say "You can't vote "Yes" to this because it is immoral."

Democracy is amoral. Justice, on the other hand, is anything but.

[IshCong]

I've always had the position that bullying should not be policed unless repeated and out of control.

This however, is gangrape, and I hope the offenders gets tried as an adult.

Later that year, one of the accused students pleaded guilty to sexual contact without consent; the other two pleaded guilty to third-degree assault. They received varied sentences that included probation, community service and restitution of about $2,500 apiece.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

I've always had the position that bullying should not be policed unless repeated and out of control.

This however, is gangrape, and I hope the offenders gets tried as an adult.

Later that year, one of the accused students pleaded guilty to sexual contact without consent; the other two pleaded guilty to third-degree assault. They received varied sentences that included probation, community service and restitution of about $2,500 apiece.

That(the punishment)'s just.....too loose. Probabtion, community service and restitution clearly isn't enough.

[Wisconsin9]

Good God. The fact that rape is culturally ACCEPTABLE in the USA, shows us that they need massive reform, in ALL LEVELS, to improve their education, to end imperialism, et cetera. Even the African countries and the Middle East is more liberal in that matter than the USA.

One, a lot of Americans (hopefully the majority) who know about this think it's horrible. Two, how the fuck does imperialism have anything to do with this? And three... no, they're really not. At least here we don't put rape victims in prison.

[IshCong]

That(the punishment)'s just.....too loose. Probabtion, community service and restitution clearly isn't enough.

Combine plea deals with their status as minors and possibly local courts...
You don't have to convince me it is a bit incredibly weak.

---

Good God. The fact that rape is culturally ACCEPTABLE in the USA, shows us that they need massive reform, in ALL LEVELS, to improve their education, to end imperialism, et cetera. Even the African countries and the Middle East is more liberal in that matter than the USA.

One, a lot of Americans (hopefully the majority) who know about this think it's horrible. Two, how the fuck does imperialism have anything to do with this? And three... no, they're really not. At least here we don't put rape victims in prison.

Concerning your first point, all the Americans in this thread do, by virtue of that fact that everyone in this thread does.

[AiliailiA]

It seems that when reports are made the buck stops with the Principal. That's too often where it stops for good.
We could probably detect cultures of abuse school-by-school if they were required to forward every report of abuse to a state or federal authority that isn't beholden to the reputation of just one school. Where there are lots of similar reports (even if each is not to the "report to the police directly" level of suspicion) it's much more likely there is actual abuse going on there.

That would also give a good indication of when police aren't investigating or pursuing serious reports in that geographical area. If the rest of the community is tolerant of abuse it's not unlikely that the police are more tolerant there too.

In a town as small as Norwood, I'd think it is pretty much a guarantee that the police have direct connections to the school, the school board, and the parents of the children there, if they aren't parents themselves. Impartiality and objective reasoning is comprised from the very beginning.

Thus, I can understand the desire to require reports to be sent to a higher level or at least some other impartial organization. Can't imagine people would appreciate the additional bureaucratic oversight, but tough.

At some point the police have to be involved, but it would help if they knew that the reports were already out of that local community somewhere. They'd be aware that collusion with the principal to cover up actual abuse would put themselves at risk of investigation.

Frankly I'd abolish the county level of police force altogether. Just have state and federal police ... not just about this topic though.

[Detectatia]

Good God. The fact that rape is culturally ACCEPTABLE in the USA, shows us that they need massive reform, in ALL LEVELS, to improve their education, to end imperialism, et cetera. Even the African countries and the Middle East is more liberal in that matter than the USA.

It's pretty safe to say that Norwood isn't exactly the norm. Not that it hasn't happened other places as well, but it isn't the norm overall.
And it's also pretty safe to say that other things not dissimilar from this happen in other places across the world. I'm pretty sure we had one person from the UK state as much earlier in the thread referencing UK cities/towns.

That.

I question the overall paradigm shift that seems to be happening within society, but that is society at large throughout the world, not the USA in particular. And further, as IshCong said, it'd be irresponsible, very irresponsible, to point to the USA and say "Look, the USA thinks rape is okay!" It not only needlessly antagonizing a far-from-monolithic country, but also indirectly prevents reflection on one's own culture.

I'm not saying Canada is particularly bad, but when you look to the USA and criticize it as a whole and declare it to be absolutely wrong, it, whether rightly or wrongly, validates anything that ISN'T the USA. Which is definitely wrong and irresponsible. And, again, you're just needlessly trying to insult an entire country that isn't a monolith and isn't just a bad, evil place. All that does is just create rifts and, on a more basic level, is just rude to those the criticism doesn't apply to.

[The Treorai]

Yes it is. To say that Democracy is subjugated to morality is to say "You can't vote "Yes" to this because it is immoral."

Democracy is amoral. Justice, on the other hand, is anything but.

Justice is based on law. Law is based on Democracy. Democracy is amoral.

Therefore, when passing law, it is understood that no law can cater to one sure set of morals, but instead what protects man from man, or man from government. Once you begin to make laws based on Morals, you begin to have a Theocracy.

Justice, or more specifically The Justice System is based off of these amoral laws. When making a ruling, one can't discriminate based on personal, or greater morals, as to do so would be to betray the laws The Justice System was made to protect.

However all of this is avoiding the original question. How exactly does Capitalism encourage Teen-aged gang-sodomy-rape?

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

That(the punishment)'s just.....too loose. Probabtion, community service and restitution clearly isn't enough.

Combine plea deals with their status as minors and possibly local courts...
You don't have to convince me it is a bit incredibly weak.

*sigh*
Maybe I'm just too harsh when it comes to suggesting punishments. After all, I was thinking that 5 years in jail or $10,000 apiece in retribution would do.

[Novia Soviet Socialist Republic]

Another reason why I prefer living at the other side of the Atlantic. There's no word to describe what this is.

[Luziyca]

Good God. The fact that rape is culturally ACCEPTABLE in the USA, shows us that they need massive reform, in ALL LEVELS, to improve their education, to end imperialism, et cetera.

Definitely. Their public education system, in particular certain regions, is seriously fucked up. What would have happened if similar thing occurred in Saskatoon, Luzy?

Even the African countries and the Middle East is more liberal in that matter than the USA.

Well, I am not sure about that, but US is definitely on the bottom of the list when it comes to this.

If it happened in Saskatoon, there'd be quick persecution of the offenders, the victim would be taken seriously, but not a lot would support it.

[The Treorai]

Another reason why I prefer living at the other side of the Atlantic. There's no word to describe what this is.

Why does everyone continue to blame this collectively on America?

[Resora]

Democracy is amoral. Justice, on the other hand, is anything but.

Justice is based on law. Law is based on Democracy. Democracy is amoral.

Therefore, when passing law, it is understood that no law can cater to one sure set of morals, but instead what protects man from man, or man from government. Once you begin to make laws based on Morals, you begin to have a Theocracy.

Justice, or more specifically The Justice System is based off of these amoral laws. When making a ruling, one can't discriminate based on personal, or greater morals, as to do so would be to betray the laws The Justice System was made to protect.

The fuck are you talking about? Every law is based on morality, the harm principle in particular. The "justice system" is nothing more than an arm of the state, which enforces the morality that guides its actions. There is no such thing as an amoral state. If it was truly amoral, it would impose no behavior on people, which would mean it's not a state and doesn't exist. The fact that laws are applied equally doesn't affect that in the least.

However all of this is avoiding the original question. How exactly does Capitalism encourage Teen-aged gang-sodomy-rape?

Never said it did. I said capitalism, and the disregard for other human beings that is central to the system, encourages victim blaming by placing the fault for any wrong on the victim.

[IshCong]

Combine plea deals with their status as minors and possibly local courts...
You don't have to convince me it is a bit incredibly weak.

*sigh*
Maybe I'm just too harsh when it comes to suggesting punishments. After all, I was thinking that 5 years in jail or $10,000 apiece in retribution would do.

I'm not entirely sure what I'd suggest. Jail time for minors strikes me as likely to be counter-productive more than anything else, but simple monetary payments aren't even going to affect them, really.
Maybe mandatory therapy sessions and oversight or something. In addition to what the court actually ordered.

I'm still considering how I feel about punishing parents for the crimes of their children.

[AiliailiA]

Good God. The fact that rape is culturally ACCEPTABLE in the USA, shows us that they need massive reform, in ALL LEVELS, to improve their education

Canadian aren't you? Human Rights Commission ftw.

... , to end imperialism, et cetera. Even the African countries and the Middle East is more liberal in that matter than the USA.

aaand ... no. Low levels of rape reporting doesn't necessarily mean low levels of rape.

[Novia Soviet Socialist Republic]

Another reason why I prefer living at the other side of the Atlantic. There's no word to describe what this is.

Why does everyone continue to blame this collectively on America?

I'm not blaming America. I'm just implying that a lot of this shit goes off in America and I would prefer not to be near it.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

Definitely. Their public education system, in particular certain regions, is seriously fucked up. What would have happened if similar thing occurred in Saskatoon, Luzy?


Well, I am not sure about that, but US is definitely on the bottom of the list when it comes to this.

If it happened in Saskatoon, there'd be quick persecution of the offenders, the victim would be taken seriously, but not a lot would support it.

Why not a lot? Is it because of (Insert a joke about people in Saskatchewan being farmers )?

If this happened in Toronto, It would probably be on the news headline on all major newspapers in the city and they would get persecuted quickly. Reminds me back to last time when a high school drama teacher working in TDSB placed some sexually inappropriate topics out of options for a drama presentation......

[IshCong]

Good God. The fact that rape is culturally ACCEPTABLE in the USA, shows us that they need massive reform, in ALL LEVELS, to improve their education

Canadian aren't you? Human Rights Commission ftw.

... , to end imperialism, et cetera. Even the African countries and the Middle East is more liberal in that matter than the USA.

aaand ... no. Low levels of rape reporting doesn't necessarily mean low levels of rape.

Not that there aren't worse things than simply having deceptively low incidences of reported rapes.

[The Treorai]

Justice is based on law. Law is based on Democracy. Democracy is amoral.

Therefore, when passing law, it is understood that no law can cater to one sure set of morals, but instead what protects man from man, or man from government. Once you begin to make laws based on Morals, you begin to have a Theocracy.

Justice, or more specifically The Justice System is based off of these amoral laws. When making a ruling, one can't discriminate based on personal, or greater morals, as to do so would be to betray the laws The Justice System was made to protect.

The fuck are you talking about? Every law is based on morality, the harm principle in particular. The "justice system" is nothing more than an arm of the state, which enforces the morality that guides its actions. There is no such thing as an amoral state. If it was truly amoral, it would impose no behavior on people, which would mean it's not a state and doesn't exist. The fact that laws are applied equally doesn't affect that in the least.

However all of this is avoiding the original question. How exactly does Capitalism encourage Teen-aged gang-sodomy-rape?

Never said it did. I said capitalism, and the disregard for other human beings that is central to the system, encourages victim blaming by placing the fault for any wrong on the victim.

Glad to see that you haven't been reading any of the posts that I have been making at all. This is going no where. I'm done walking in circles trying to talk with you.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

*sigh*
Maybe I'm just too harsh when it comes to suggesting punishments. After all, I was thinking that 5 years in jail or $10,000 apiece in retribution would do.

I'm not entirely sure what I'd suggest. Jail time for minors strikes me as likely to be counter-productive more than anything else, but simple monetary payments aren't even going to affect them, really.
Maybe mandatory therapy sessions and oversight or something. In addition to what the court actually ordered.

I'm still considering how I feel about punished parents for the crimes of their children.

1. Why counter-productive for jail time for minors?
2. Exactly. Unless one can file for multi-million dollar compensation on this case(which I believe is justifiable), it won't affect them much.

[Luziyca]

If it happened in Saskatoon, there'd be quick persecution of the offenders, the victim would be taken seriously, but not a lot would support it.

Why not a lot? Is it because of (Insert a joke about people in Saskatchewan being farmers )?

If this happened in Toronto, It would probably be on the news headline on all major newspapers in the city and they would get persecuted quickly. Reminds me back to last time when a high school drama teacher working in TDSB placed some sexually inappropriate topics out of options for a drama presentation......

Because rape is malum in se: wrong in itself. It'd likely be covered by the local news, maybe if one is lucky, exposed to the national news.

[IshCong]

I'm not entirely sure what I'd suggest. Jail time for minors strikes me as likely to be counter-productive more than anything else, but simple monetary payments aren't even going to affect them, really.
Maybe mandatory therapy sessions and oversight or something. In addition to what the court actually ordered.

I'm still considering how I feel about punished parents for the crimes of their children.

1. Why counter-productive for jail time for minors?
2. Exactly. Unless one can file for multi-million dollar compensation on this case(which I believe is justifiable), it won't affect them much.

I feel that the current prison system contributes to high recidivism rates. Placing a minor who already demonstrates behavior that I think is likely representative of major psychological issues among other criminals and treating them as a criminal, etc, is...less than likely to improve them as a human being who cares about others.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

Why not a lot? Is it because of (Insert a joke about people in Saskatchewan being farmers )?

If this happened in Toronto, It would probably be on the news headline on all major newspapers in the city and they would get persecuted quickly. Reminds me back to last time when a high school drama teacher working in TDSB placed some sexually inappropriate topics out of options for a drama presentation......

Because rape is malum in se: wrong in itself. It'd likely be covered by the local news, maybe if one is lucky, exposed to the national news.

And possibly international. I remember reading a news article about this back in Sydney several years ago(I lived Down under back then).....

[Resora]

The fuck are you talking about? Every law is based on morality, the harm principle in particular. The "justice system" is nothing more than an arm of the state, which enforces the morality that guides its actions. There is no such thing as an amoral state. If it was truly amoral, it would impose no behavior on people, which would mean it's not a state and doesn't exist. The fact that laws are applied equally doesn't affect that in the least.


Never said it did. I said capitalism, and the disregard for other human beings that is central to the system, encourages victim blaming by placing the fault for any wrong on the victim.

Glad to see that you haven't been reading any of the posts that I have been making at all. This is going no where. I'm done walking in circles trying to talk with you.

I've been reading them quite thoroughly. Any coercive action by a state means the ruling class, that determines what the state can and cannot do, believes things should be one way and not another. That's morality. The state is a moral institution, even if states in the abstract are amoral, because everything it does is informed by human beings. What is just or not depends solely on the values of the individuals judging the object in question, which means justice is informed by morality. All an "unjust government" is, is a government that is guided by moral views that are rejected by the people it governs.

It's pretty straightforward.

[AiliailiA]

persecution

persecuted .

I think both of you mean "prosecuted". Persecution is something between shunning and unjust oppression.