Value of virginity and slut-shaming

[Condunum]

Here, let me give you the argument she is failing to give out of aggravation. I assume that is your issue at this moment, Nana.

Slut, like any other word, holds no intrinsic value. Literally none. It does, however have definitions, and when coupled with other words, the context of the phrase or sentence determines what the word means. "She's a slut!" Is rather clear, in that it's evident that slut is an adjective to describe this woman. Slut is a negative adjective in this sense, as it's intent is to degrade the image of the woman it's being shouted at. It is, in this case, slut-shaming, because the entire purpose of the word is to warp outside opinions of this woman.

Yes I agree intent and context matters

And that's the thing, some words in society carry intent from the start. Slut is one of those words. As it is now, slut is used almost exclusively as a derogatory term for a woman who you hold a negative opinion of, much like man whore, or bitch, or hoe. The sheer implications the word carries with it's own definitions are enough to be considered slutshamming when used on it's own.

[The Rich Port]

"Shy" could mean a number of things.

Are you afraid of rejection? Are you scared of talking to them? Are you afraid of public conversation in general?

Don't say all.

Darnit. "All" was going to be my answer.

Although my "in general" conversation skills have gotten better as of late, so just the first two.

If it really is "all", the only person who can help you is yourself and/or a therapist.

If you can't overcome "shyness", it's probably a bigger problem.

Even if it isn't, maybe you can get some pointers from your psychologist.

... Has nobody taught you how to talk to women?

[Galloism]

Slut shaming is broad. The other one is harassment, also included in slut shaming. I don't understand the need for distinctions here. Whether or not it causes someone to kill themselves, it is still reprehensible. Do you understandable that?

Intent matters is the point. One is malicious one is ignorance. Those two things are not the same.

I wanted to point something out. Here on nationstates, we point out ignorance every damn day.

Ignorance should be challenged just as much as maliciousness.

The malicious make up the banner of oppression, the ignorant follow it. We must strike at the heart of both problems, but in different ways.

[Grenartia]

My mother was at least intelligent enough to realize that I was not her property. Her outlook was more or less that she was my guide, and not my owner. If I have kids, if I'm even half the parent she was, I'll consider my parenthood a success.



Thing is, theft and vandalism inherently infringe on other people's rights without informed consent, and are thus immoral. Not so with casual sex. Try again.



1. I've done all the introspection I need.
2. Ad hominem. If you can't defend your position, and have to resort to insulting me, perhaps you should reconsider your position.

I said you were tough and had a big penis...these arent insults.
You seem confused.

They are personal comments, obviously stated in a sarcastic manner.

[Condunum]

Slut shaming is broad. The other one is harassment, also included in slut shaming. I don't understand the need for distinctions here. Whether or not it causes someone to kill themselves, it is still reprehensible. Do you understandable that?

Intent matters is the point. One is malicious one is ignorance. Those two things are not the same.

There comes a point when you have to step back from the semantic argument and consider the application of the term. In this case, there is only one widely regarded intent, to paint a picture of someone in a negative light.

[Euroslavia]

Its the attitude of people like you that caused me to assault my mom's asshole mother and stepfather, because that attitude caused them to justify making my life a fucking hell on earth for me. Because of that attitude, I considered committing fucking suicide by train just to make sure I retained at least ONE FUCKING BIT of my self-determination.

So, FUCK. YOUR. BULLSHIT.

Need a tissue?
Perhaps you might ought to sit down and try some more introspection.
Moving post though, very moving.
I bet youre really tough and have a large penis too.

Both of you need to cool it. This is an incredibly heated topic and conversation has escalated by both of you to the point where it's reaching the line. Don't cross it.

[Napkiraly]

I don't personally care if a woman decides to devalue herself

1. Why are you only dealing with women? Are men allowed to sleep around but not women?
2. How does it devalue them?

[Living Freedom Land]

... Has nobody taught you how to talk to women?

Well this one guy told me to walk up to them and just say, "hey you're pretty do you want to go get coffee?"

I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than that.

[Disserbia]

So what you're saying is intent doesn't matter because se used a certain word. Yeah, no.

Her intent is clear, by your own words.

She intended to guilt or shame you into changing your behavior by calling you a "stupid American slut" mostly because she did not like your clothing choice or that you had a boyfriend, by your own words. That's pretty textbook slut shaming.

Here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming

It's exactly the definition.

She could care less how I dress or who or if I'm dating as long as I behave in church. It's not that hard a concept to grasp

[Condunum]

Indeed. However, that's not an assertion that can be made right from the start.

To discredit an opinion on morality, you must first show faults in reasoning. Example:

Joe believes that it is moral for him to hurt others, but does not like when others hurt him. His morality is on the basis that he as a being does not like to be hurt. That is sound, as it is a biological predisposition that causes Joe to dislike pain. However, his morality is inconsistent, in that he does not place the same levels of value on others. It's up to us, the opponent, to explain why this is wrong. In this case, Joe is wrong, because harming others is harmful to the survival of the species, the fluidity of society and the emotional stability of others. The reason why this is immoral is because it doesn't follow the actual purpose of morality, to consider our impact on others.

Follow?

Yeah, I follow.

Alright, good. I didn't doubt you did, but I figured this was a good chance to at least allow some lurkers to learn the difference between dismissal and refutation.

[Galloism]

... Has nobody taught you how to talk to women?

Well this one guy told me to walk up to them and just say, "hey you're pretty do you want to go get coffee?"

I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than that.

Not really. Start with that, then, if she accepts, have a conversation like you're talking to a person.

[Napkiraly]

... Has nobody taught you how to talk to women?

Well this one guy told me to walk up to them and just say, "hey you're pretty do you want to go get coffee?"

I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than that.

Depends on the girl and the setting.

[Disserbia]

Intent matters is the point. One is malicious one is ignorance. Those two things are not the same.

There comes a point when you have to step back from the semantic argument and consider the application of the term. In this case, there is only one widely regarded intent, to paint a picture of someone in a negative light.

Which I explained was not what my grandmother was doing.

[The Rich Port]

I don't personally care if a woman decides to devalue herself, but I don't find the traits of promiscuity and arbitrariness as attractive. I also don't think such a display of unfaithfulness is appealing. So yes, I do value virginity. It shows control, too.

Control control control.

I'm all for self-control, but that's about as far as it should get, IMO.

Besides, this is one area where loosing control can actually be good for you.

[Condunum]

There comes a point when you have to step back from the semantic argument and consider the application of the term. In this case, there is only one widely regarded intent, to paint a picture of someone in a negative light.

Which I explained was not what my grandmother was doing.

Regardless of your grandmother's intentions, the implications of the word are what matters, regardless of where those implications come from.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't personally care if a woman decides to devalue herself, but I don't find the traits of promiscuity and arbitrariness as attractive. I also don't think such a display of unfaithfulness is appealing. So yes, I do value virginity. It shows control, too.

Control control control.

I'm all for self-control, but that's about as far as it should get, IMO.

Besides, this is one area where loosing control can actually be good for you.

It can. A lot.

[Galloism]

Her intent is clear, by your own words.

She intended to guilt or shame you into changing your behavior by calling you a "stupid American slut" mostly because she did not like your clothing choice or that you had a boyfriend, by your own words. That's pretty textbook slut shaming.

Here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming

It's exactly the definition.

She could care less how I dress or who or if I'm dating as long as I behave in church. It's not that hard a concept to grasp

Which is slut shaming for the duration in which she was trying to guilt or shame you into changing your behavior.

Sad part is, she could have approached it in a better way without slut shaming you, but she didn't, by your own admission.

[Disserbia]

Intent matters is the point. One is malicious one is ignorance. Those two things are not the same.

I wanted to point something out. Here on nationstates, we point out ignorance every damn day.

Ignorance should be challenged just as much as maliciousness.

The malicious make up the banner of oppression, the ignorant follow it. We must strike at the heart of both problems, but in different ways.

I never said that ignorance shouldn't be challenged I said there was a difference between the two.

[Freelanderness]

... Has nobody taught you how to talk to women?

Well this one guy told me to walk up to them and just say, "hey you're pretty do you want to go get coffee?"

I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than that.

skip the "you're pretty", go with a compliment less generic. eg: did they do their hair nice? say you like their hair. Are they carrying a textboook? make a comment about whatever they're studying.

then invite them to coffee.

tying back to thread, this is a good approach because often society only values women as sex objects (virginity is part of this) and so if someone comes by and appreciates something about you that isn't sexual, it seems out of the ordinary, and you're more inclined to be open to them.

[Living Freedom Land]

Well this one guy told me to walk up to them and just say, "hey you're pretty do you want to go get coffee?"

I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than that.

Not really. Start with that, then, if she accepts, have a conversation like you're talking to a person.

Okay.

Do you have a list of what NOT to do?

[Galloism]

There comes a point when you have to step back from the semantic argument and consider the application of the term. In this case, there is only one widely regarded intent, to paint a picture of someone in a negative light.

Which I explained was not what my grandmother was doing.

Stupid American slut is no longer a negative description of a person.

Got it.

[Galloism]

Not really. Start with that, then, if she accepts, have a conversation like you're talking to a person.

Okay.

Do you have a list of what NOT to do?

No, but I have a secret.

All women are different.

[Disserbia]

She could care less how I dress or who or if I'm dating as long as I behave in church. It's not that hard a concept to grasp

Which is slut shaming for the duration in which she was trying to guilt or shame you into changing your behavior.

Sad part is, she could have approached it in a better way without slut shaming you, but she didn't, by your own admission.

So basically because she used the word slut it's slut shamming. Lol no.

[Condunum]

Which I explained was not what my grandmother was doing.

Stupid American slut is no longer a negative description of a person.

Got it.

I could understand if he were to say that his grandmother is senile. If she's lucid, what she said is still carrying the weight of negative opinion.

[The Rich Port]

... Has nobody taught you how to talk to women?

Well this one guy told me to walk up to them and just say, "hey you're pretty do you want to go get coffee?"

I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than that.

Yes and no.

Maybe women sometimes just want sex too.

To be fair to you, I also find the world of "dating" mystifying to this day.

The girls I considered "girlfriends" I never went out to do romantic comedy shit like going to coffee places and whatnot.

We just... Were friends, and then we realized we found each other beautiful.

Beautiful enough to fuck.

You just... Talk to them.