Value of virginity and slut-shaming

[The Truth and Light]

In my opinion, when you consider the origins of the concept of virginity, it's very clear that it was used to objectify women. Like in medieval Europe, for example, where a woman's marriageability was tied to her subservience, her family's wealth, and her virginity.

As a concept I think it's outdated. Way outdated. I also think it's reminiscent of a toxic attitude towards sex; that there is a right way to have sex and that it affects one's quality as a human being. This is very in-conducive for a healthy narrative about sex, in my opinion.

I wonder if sexism is all you have in that head of yours or if it is just you being in character.

We are in a topic about slut-shaming. I'm not about to start talking about some other shit.

[Freelanderness]

I also don't understand this concept of virginity, as there is absolutely no way to prove it at all, even with a female. The hymen is not what you think it is.

The hymen isn't even relevant, like, at all.

like it actually is, because like people literally check whether it's intact to gauge whether a woman is like, ruined or not.

[Murray land]

If man bangs eight chicks in a night he is labeled a legend.

Not in my books

Although a man (or woman) who does it is fine and dandy, bragging about it makes him or her sound like a dick.

and well of course it does ,if your a girl though ewwwww

[Freelanderness]

In my opinion, when you consider the origins of the concept of virginity, it's very clear that it was used to objectify women. Like in medieval Europe, for example, where a woman's marriageability was tied to her subservience, her family's wealth, and her virginity.

As a concept I think it's outdated. Way outdated. I also think it's reminiscent of a toxic attitude towards sex; that there is a right way to have sex and that it affects one's quality as a human being. This is very in-conducive for a healthy narrative about sex, in my opinion.

I wonder if sexism is all you have in that head of yours or if it is just you being in character.

look up the *actual* definition of sexism plox +therkyew

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I wonder if sexism is all you have in that head of yours or if it is just you being in character.

We are in a topic about slut-shaming. I'm not about to start talking about some other shit.

Yet, your post suggest otherwise. Congratulations, you won the Nobel Prize for Obtuse Commentaries.

[Freelanderness]

We are in a topic about slut-shaming. I'm not about to start talking about some other shit.

Yet, your post suggest otherwise. Congratulations, you won the Nobel Prize for Obtuse Commentaries.

Jesus christ, he literally addressed the prompt to a T. I'm sorry that you weren't aware of the historical implications of slut-shaming and virginity, but now you are so you have no excuse.

[The Truth and Light]

Yet, your post suggest otherwise. Congratulations, you won the Nobel Prize for Obtuse Commentaries.

Jesus christ, he literally addressed the prompt to a T. I'm sorry that you weren't aware of the historical implications of slut-shaming and virginity, but now you are so you have no excuse.

Thank you Freebie, you said it better than I could have.

[Individuality-ness]

The hymen isn't even relevant, like, at all.

like it actually is, because like people literally check whether it's intact to gauge whether a woman is like, ruined or not.

Wedding sheets. They used to check wedding sheets for blood after the first night.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The hymen isn't even relevant, like, at all.

like it actually is, because like people literally check whether it's intact to gauge whether a woman is like, ruined or not.

Which I actually think it's stupid. I mean, anyone who knows about medicine would know that the hymen had a function (or has). And that some virgin (in the context of sexual relations) women do not have it at all, therefore it is simply irrelevant.

[Freelanderness]

like it actually is, because like people literally check whether it's intact to gauge whether a woman is like, ruined or not.

Wedding sheets. They used to check wedding sheets for blood after the first night.

*shudders* I know. I read the chronicles of a death foretold and they had that part... makes me wonder how they ever convinced their wives to have sex again.

[Rocopurr]

We are in a topic about slut-shaming. I'm not about to start talking about some other shit.

Yet, your post suggest otherwise. Congratulations, you won the Nobel Prize for Obtuse Commentaries.

Regardless of his post history this thread is about virginity and slut-shaming, two topics that can be linked with sexism.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yet, your post suggest otherwise. Congratulations, you won the Nobel Prize for Obtuse Commentaries.

Jesus christ, he literally addressed the prompt to a T. I'm sorry that you weren't aware of the historical implications of slut-shaming and virginity, but now you are so you have no excuse.

I was aware of the cultural meaning back then WAY before he even told me (when I was about, what? 17? Yes, reading about history does some good; I even majored in History). Mind if you stop assuming nobody but he (or you for that matter) knows nothing but bullshit? Thank you.

[Individuality-ness]

Wedding sheets. They used to check wedding sheets for blood after the first night.

*shudders* I know. I read the chronicles of a death foretold and they had that part... makes me wonder how they ever convinced their wives to have sex again.

Well, after the first time it doesn't hurt so much (from reading books about the subject). I guess if they failed they poured blood on it?

[Murray land]

Here is the thing though. I will draw from expereince my ex when we started dating was a virgin, I changed that. A few weeks later a relationship started to go bad. Here was the problem. If I had dumped her I would have been labeled scum and un dateable by chicks. So in other words I had to make her dump me which she did. My point you can't take a girls virginity and part ways unscathed Guys can be shamed in a way to.

[Freelanderness]

like it actually is, because like people literally check whether it's intact to gauge whether a woman is like, ruined or not.

Which I actually think it's stupid. I mean, anyone who knows about medicine would know that the hymen had a function (or has). And that some virgin (in the context of sexual relations) women do not have it at all, therefore it is simply irrelevant.

To you, but this thread is bigger than you.

[Arcturus Novus]

In my opinion, when you consider the origins of the concept of virginity, it's very clear that it was used to objectify women. Like in medieval Europe, for example, where a woman's marriageability was tied to her subservience, her family's wealth, and her virginity.

As a concept I think it's outdated. Way outdated. I also think it's reminiscent of a toxic attitude towards sex; that there is a right way to have sex and that it affects one's quality as a human being. This is very in-conducive for a healthy narrative about sex, in my opinion.

This. Like, there is nothing in this statement that I wasn't about to say.

[Freelanderness]

Jesus christ, he literally addressed the prompt to a T. I'm sorry that you weren't aware of the historical implications of slut-shaming and virginity, but now you are so you have no excuse.

I was aware of the cultural meaning back then WAY before he even told me. Mind if you stop assuming nobody but he (or you for that matter) knows nothing but bullshit? Thank you.

Maybe you could like take that into consideration then, cause it sure isn't evident through your posts and centuries of oppression, kind've a big deal you know?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I was aware of the cultural meaning back then WAY before he even told me. Mind if you stop assuming nobody but he (or you for that matter) knows nothing but bullshit? Thank you.

Maybe you could like take that into consideration then, cause it sure isn't evident through your posts and centuries of oppression, kind've a big deal you know?

And personal valuation over oneself's virginity is oppressive how, if I may ask? Especially being a man? "Oh no! I am being oppressed because I am a virgin and have chosen to stay that way out of personal valuation of it!" please.

I mean, you have to come up with a better argument than "History indicates that..." because historical perceptions about virginity have changed over the centuries as people have moved from agrarian societies to industrialized ones. Hence, oppression is not even a relevance in the context of anything modern or even for most of the Western World when it comes to self-valuation about oneself's virginity.

Now, in some cases (like in the middle east) I won't deny you this may or may not happen due to their classicism, but it doesn't mean it does happen in societies where we have managed to get past that.

[Cashewbutter]

If there's no right or wrong way to have sex (assuming, of course, that all participants are able to consent, and do so) then wouldn't it follow that waiting until marriage is also a valid choice?

I don't think bashing the concept of virginity is in line with the goal of fostering openness and personal choice. Different people have different value systems, and the entire idea is that individuals do what they want with their own bodies according to their own beliefs and values. Replacing one set of rigid rules about sex ("if you're not a virgin when you're married, something is wrong with you and you should be ashamed") with a different set of rigid rules about sex ("if you are a virgin by choice, something is wrong with you and you should be ashamed") doesn't really help. It only flips the problem around and it's highly hypocritical.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If there's no right or wrong way to have sex (assuming, of course, that all participants are able to consent, and do so) then wouldn't it follow that waiting until marriage is also a valid choice?

I don't think bashing the concept of virginity is in line with the goal of fostering openness and personal choice. Different people have different value systems, and the entire idea is that individuals do what they want with their own bodies according to their own beliefs and values. Replacing one set of rigid rules about sex ("if you're not a virgin when you're married, something is wrong with you and you should be ashamed") with a different set of rigid rules about sex ("if you are a virgin by choice, something is wrong with you and you should be ashamed") doesn't really help. It only flips the problem around and it's highly hypocritical.

This, pretty much I can agree 100% with everything you have said.

[The Truth and Light]

In my opinion, when you consider the origins of the concept of virginity, it's very clear that it was used to objectify women. Like in medieval Europe, for example, where a woman's marriageability was tied to her subservience, her family's wealth, and her virginity.

As a concept I think it's outdated. Way outdated. I also think it's reminiscent of a toxic attitude towards sex; that there is a right way to have sex and that it affects one's quality as a human being. This is very in-conducive for a healthy narrative about sex, in my opinion.

This. Like, there is nothing in this statement that I wasn't about to say.

Wow I was effective. Yay!

[Murray land]

If there's no right or wrong way to have sex (assuming, of course, that all participants are able to consent, and do so) then wouldn't it follow that waiting until marriage is also a valid choice?

I don't think bashing the concept of virginity is in line with the goal of fostering openness and personal choice. Different people have different value systems, and the entire idea is that individuals do what they want with their own bodies according to their own beliefs and values. Replacing one set of rigid rules about sex ("if you're not a virgin when you're married, something is wrong with you and you should be ashamed") with a different set of rigid rules about sex ("if you are a virgin by choice, something is wrong with you and you should be ashamed") doesn't really help. It only flips the problem around and it's highly hypocritical.

I agree if there was a way to close a thread because a post was that good this would be it.

[Freelanderness]

Maybe you could like take that into consideration then, cause it sure isn't evident through your posts and centuries of oppression, kind've a big deal you know?

And personal valuation over oneself's virginity is oppressive how, if I may ask? Especially being a man? "Oh no! I am being oppressed because I am a virgin and have chosen to stay that way out of personal valuation of it!" please.

I mean, you have to come up with a better argument than "History indicates that..." because historical perceptions about virginity have changed over the centuries as people have moved from agrarian societies to industrialized ones. Hence, oppression is not even a relevance in the context of anything modern or even for most of the Western World when it comes to self-valuation about oneself's virginity.

Now, in some cases (like in the middle east) I won't deny you this may or may not happen due to their classicism, but it doesn't mean it does happen in societies where we have managed to get past that.

You're fucking kidding me right? You don't think that girls don't get BULLIED TO DEATH because they lost their virginity? To this day? In the US? Wow that takes a new level of obliviousness.

I don't give a shit whether you value your virginity or not. I don't give a shit about your wiggly bits, believe it or not. What I disagree with is trying to force this on others, and shame them for not having the same value system.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You're fucking kidding me right? You don't think that girls don't get BULLIED TO DEATH because they lost their virginity? To this day? In the US? Wow that takes a new level of obliviousness.

I don't give a shit whether you value your virginity or not. I don't give a shit about your wiggly bits, believe it or not. What I disagree with is trying to force this on others, and shame them for not having the same value system.

1 - Which is retarded, and I think we are more civilized than that. While I know it does happen, I don't think that is right either. People also get bullied because they are virgins and others around them are not y'know? It's not just your side either, so stop making it sound so one-sided, because both sides attack each other, which again, is stupid, as we are clearly past a stage where this shouldn't even matter, it's a personal choice, not a fucking contest of who's got the greater morals around.

2 - I could care less whether you care less. And while I agree in not trying to force this on others as well, saying it is oppressive to remain virgin out of one's personal choice is a ton of bullshit as well, and people on the opposite side should also take your word for it and not push their belief that virginity is irrelevant to those of us who don't think that way and shame us for it. Because yes, believe it or not, I was virgin-shamed by my own brothers (because I am a guy and somehow I am supposed to take sleeping around like a god damned duty), it wasn't funny.

[Dakini]

like it actually is, because like people literally check whether it's intact to gauge whether a woman is like, ruined or not.

Wedding sheets. They used to check wedding sheets for blood after the first night.

Actually, sometimes they also just checked the woman.

iirc, Princess Diana went through this whole "check if she's a virgin" thing before she got hitched to Charles.