Value of virginity and slut-shaming

[Ethel mermania]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

thank god for women who sleep around, who else would i have hung out with in skewl?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Oooh, now I want eggs. Maybe I can get my nana to make me eggs with my steak...

... I have free-range eggs. All the way from Minooka?

That's a bit of a walk for eggs.

[Dyakovo]

O.o
You're a glutten for punishment, aren't you?

You have no idea...

I think I'm getting an idea...

---

What did I just walk into?

The best porno you've ever seen.

Or the worst... All a matter of perspective I imagine...

---

Ah, I'm familiar with the "self control" argument. It takes the valid concept of exercising restraint in avoiding dangerous high-risk sexual behavior (Note that "casual" does not necessarily imply "dangerous" or "high risk". I'm speaking with respect to using protection, due diligence, etc.) and extrapolates it to imply all casual sex or fornication is bad, hazardous, or "meaningless" (I'll get to that "meaningless" bullshit in a short bit).

This bullshit characterization of casual sex, fornication, or other forms of sex outside a traditionally "committed" situation (often defined by a normative standard) as "meaningless sex" is getting really annoying. In my view, the only thing needed for sex to be "meaningful" is a combination of interest, joy, and respect.

To me, chastity includes absolute total abstinence, "abstinence before marriage" and other arbitrary forms of abstinence, antisexualism, and other forms of prudishness (in certain contexts). While not acts of chastity in themselves, I also regard certain notions about sex, such as the view of sex as a chore or as a bargaining chip, as "chaste ideas."

1 - The "self control" argument has some validity though.
If a person wants to exercise self-control over his or her desires there is nothing wrong with that. You must learn how to make a better argument other than tearing down people for what they believe, just saying.

1: Not the way you're using it. Unless, of course, you can prove that people lose all self-control once they have sex.

---

To sum up: Virgins R boring

Which...come to think of it is true, most likely.

Nope. How much or how little sex you've had has nothing to do with if you're boring or interesting.

Though it may have some effect on how boring or interesting you are in bed...

[Northern Dominus]

... I have free-range eggs. All the way from Minooka?

That's a bit of a walk for eggs.

But they're sooo gooood... fine, I'll make a damn omelet.

[Czechanada]

Okay, yes, I made a blanket statement and posted before thinking about it. I apologize.

To go back to Ayreonia's original point and my (rather silly) bit, if we're using the word "virgin" to define a human being who makes a big deal about not having sex, then I stand by the notion that they are boring. The individuals that Ayreonia noted that are virgins but don't make a big deal of it most likely do not because they're too busy doing other things IE having a life.

A "virgin" (again defining a person who goes out of their way to note that they haven't had any sort of sexual contact or up to X point) on the other hand is a boring person. Because if they're making a point of that then they probably don't have much else going on in their life to occupy them.

And, let's be honest here, the sex drives sometimes encourages people to do silly or insane things. Even if they don't play out, that drive usually ends in a good story and a bonding experience for more than one person regardless of the coitus or lack thereof as a result. Therefore they have that experience and story to tell and are therefore most likely perceived as more interesting. To wit, bragging about one's sexual exploits in an unsolicited fashion is just as annoying and off-putting as bragging about one's lack of sexual experience, but in the end experience and daring make for a more interesting person.

I don't think stories come into it. Sexuality is simply so ingrained into our society that people who don't partake are often thought to ignore other aspects of social interaction, too. And sadly, it's often true. Many virgins I know are awkward around other people, which is more than often the cause of their virginity. Hence the notion that virgins are boring.

It's not always the case, though. Some are just plain hopeless when dealing with the opposite sex, but are otherwise fun people.

Wrong. Sexuality is not ingrained in our society. Sexual repression is.

[Ethel mermania]

That's a bit of a walk for eggs.

But they're sooo gooood... fine, I'll make a damn omelet.

swiss cheese, bacon and mushrooms?

[Northern Dominus]

But they're sooo gooood... fine, I'll make a damn omelet.

swiss cheese, bacon and mushrooms?

Not for you, you get dry white toast.

[Coccygia]

Sluts shmutts. Just as long as they don't have kids that I have to pay taxes to put in jail when they grow up. Another reason this abstinence-only crap is crap.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

1 - The "self control" argument has some validity though.
If a person wants to exercise self-control over his or her desires there is nothing wrong with that. You must learn how to make a better argument other than tearing down people for what they believe, just saying.

1: Not the way you're using it. Unless, of course, you can prove that people lose all self-control once they have sex.

No, actually, that is not accurate either.

You see, although I, in real life can be as charming as possible with women and I have a lot of fun with them, I am still a virgin. Why? Because I prefer that degree of self control (and no, I do not brag about it, I instead brag about my computer skills and how awesome it is to do exercise with everyone ).

You won't lose all self-control once you have sex, that's just an extrapolation of my point. If self-control in sexual manners to such a degree is fine for a person, that's okay. The problem is, like others have said, when such people become dicks about it. OR, when the opposite is true: when people who have had sex become dicks about someone being a virgin (which is more accurately the experiences I've had personally).

[Soldati Senza Confini]

(note: this isn't directed at you, Soldati, you've just brought up points I want to rant on)

1 - The "self control" argument has some validity though.
If a person wants to exercise self-control over his or her desires there is nothing wrong with that. You must learn how to make a better argument other than tearing down people for what they believe, just saying.

Correction: it would have validity if sex were a negative thing, or at least had tangible negative consequences. Exercising self-control is good and even admirable (at least I think it is) when it comes to actually unhealthy habits like eating wrong, smoking or drinking. I just can't see the value of not having sex, since it's universally agreed that sex is good for you.

2 - Your view is not a universal view, as seen by the fact that many people see sex outside of a relationship as a bad thing (I myself see it as a personal detriment), and what you are describing would be an ideal situation, sadly this isn't the case many times, and other people attach an emotional value to sex, not just a self-gratifying one. You may view sex as a self-gratifying activity, and it is, but value standards are different for different people.

Ah, but if sex outside of a relationship actually were a bad thing, it'd mean that sex itself is inherently bad. Which it isn't. Is eating tacos outside of a relationship bad? It's the same difference.

And who's saying that self-gratifying sex and emotional sex cannot coexist outside of a marriage? Having sex with someone means attraction and acceptance. How is that not emotionally gratifying? It doesn't have to be "OMG we're so in love" sex. Being too cutesy kills desire, at least for me.

3 - Sex as a chore or as a bargaining chip are not "chaste ideas", they are manipulative ideas, but not chaste. Although total abstinence, antisexualism, and other forms of prudishness are quite not your cup of tea, it doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong either, as attested by the fact that many people also find value in it, and are more content they followed their own personal value than letting it go because of someone else.

Also, as a side note, it is quite funny how the same people who say "live and let live" also come criticizing others about their own views. In a way, I am guilty of this, but at least I am not denying it. Others, on the other hand, pretend to be quite the heroes of equality and freedom of choice but instead come across as quite absolutist about what is right and what is wrong.

For me, it's just because I'm fed the fuck up with virgins who think virginity is an ideal state of being and that it should be protected at all cost, because having sex means caving in to base instincts and moral degradation. Fuck no. That's just a story virgins tell themselves because they feel bad since they aren't getting any. And any person who tries to elevate themself above others is a terrible human being and should be ashamed of themself. Ay emm aitch oh.

I'll have nobody judging me for having sex. Nobody.

Just some points you have brought on to light, and I would like to refine on some given your rant. Don't take it personal, as it is not meant to be.

1 - Which is why it is a personal thing. It isn't an absolute. When I started the discussion, I would have preferred to be understood as "personally, I value my virginity" because that is all I, or anyone else, can talk about, their own limited value towards their own virginity or lack thereof. It doesn't have to be an absolutist argument.

2 - I did not mean to say that it has to be "outside of marriage" as I even think that is a stupid concept (I was born OUTSIDE of marriage, so I can't really speak about that). Sex in itself isn't bad, however, having sex and then having regrets means you were not ready, which means it was bad, at least in your own personal view of it.

I am also not saying sex outside of marriage is inherently bad, but that many people view sex in different ways, and the best way to deal with it is to respect other perspectives. Which means, as much as others have a right to have sex, other people have as much right to abstain from it for purely personal reasons such as self-control or other reasons that may or may not be agreeable to you but which are still valid within the moral values of said people, even if these values are not shared by you.

3 - As for this one specific point, I am also fed up with the people who bash on me for actually being a virgin out of choice. Trust me I could have had sex LONG ago (I have the looks, the (now) personality, and if both of those don't work I have money to go hire a sex servant, I don't have to be with someone either for sex as I can afford it if I so wanted to), the problem is that I find it within my own personal values to remain as such until I find someone I am comfortable with and I want to take the relationship to another level. That's a personal value I place on sex and virginity and it is not inherently bad, as I would also not mind if my girlfriend is not a virgin (as in fact I am pursuing someone who is a single mother actually), but it is a personal choice I chose to make.

I chose to live with the criticism I mean, I got irate when people asked "are you a virgin?" and when I said yes the very next questions out of their mouths were:

Are you gay?
Are you asexual?
Don't you like women?
Why are you still a virgin? That's weird

Also exclamations such as:

Just get over it, sex is great.

Or, the typical one: pushing for me to go sleep with someone, even a prostitute. All of this from whom? From the same people who enjoy sex and don't want to be criticized about it. Then again, I come from Latin American culture, so for people in my culture, it is normal for boys and girls to lose their virginity when they are teens, so in a way I was seen as the weird one or somehow the one who has to be gotten to get laid somehow.

[Living Freedom Land]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

thank god for women who sleep around, who else would i have hung out with in skewl?

The girls I hung out with.

Come to think of it, I actually didn't hang out with girls much in high school.

[The Grey Wolf]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

thank god for women who sleep around, who else would i have hung out with in skewl?

The girls I hung out with.

Come to think of it, I actually didn't hang out with girls much in high school.

I never met a boy who did. Most girls, even the floozy ones, thought I was "weird." No women hanged around with me,

[DrakoBlaria]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

thank god for women who sleep around, who else would i have hung out with in skewl?

What if I told you that these already happens? Crazy right?

[DrakoBlaria]

The girls I hung out with.

Come to think of it, I actually didn't hang out with girls much in high school.

I never met a boy who did. Most girls, even the floozy ones, thought I was "weird." No women hanged around with me,

Well that is odd

[Mozzissey]

Virginity is dead.

I mean, at one point you can see it's purpose back in ancient times, it kept down on the instances of STDs and STIs. But thanks to education today and forms of birth control/safer sex, virginity isn't all that needed I guess. Now, cases for STDs have increased significantly since those times, but so has population, but we are also more educated on these matters (well, most intelligent people are. The commoner... Maybe not so much)

[DrakoBlaria]

Virginity is dead.

I mean, at one point you can see it's purpose back in ancient times, it kept down on the instances of STDs and STIs. But thanks to education today and forms of birth control/safer sex, virginity isn't all that needed I guess. Now, cases for STDs have increased significantly since those times, but so has population, but we are also more educated on these matters (well, most intelligent people are. The commoner... Maybe not so much)

Yeah, but the point is how something is socially aproved. And the last thing that people though in "ancient times" (which just happen to be till 60 years ago, apparently) was STDs.

[The Grey Wolf]

I never met a boy who did. Most girls, even the floozy ones, thought I was "weird." No women hanged around with me,

Well that is odd

You'll have to excuse me, my sarcasm detector is recharging.

[Saiwania]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

I can't find anyone who would be willing to have sex with me, oh well- I guess I should feel ashamed.

[Transhuman Proteus]

The thing is, you're conflating "abstaining from sex, talking about abstaining from sex, and considering abstaining from sex a good and important thing that you do" with "constantly being a dick about abstaining from sex." The Dalai Lama does all of the former. He's still pretty obviously an interesting person.

Or, to use a more personal example - a couple who are good friends of mine both were so hardcore into chastity that their first kiss was on their wedding day. They're lovely, kind, charming people, who both wore "purity rings" before marriage and would happily answer questions about the rings and what they symbolized for them, and who have spoken both before and after getting married about how that decision to abstain was the right one for them. They also have cool careers, fun hobbies, impressive accomplishments, and full, vivid personalities, neither because or in spite of being virgins until marriage. It's not a thing that makes them better than anyone else (nor would they say it was). It's also not a thing that makes them worse than anyone else. It's just a thing about them, no different in terms of their value as human beings than if they both chose not to cut their hair or they both chose not to eat pork or something.

I think I cleared it up earlier, but yes you're right. My umbrage and the target of that (again silly) quip was the "out and loud" virgins who bludgeon people with it out of the gate rather than integrate into the flow of normal conversation, or it's one of the top three things mentioned after "tell me about yourself" is asked of them. If it's important to them that's all well and dandy but they're not doing anyone any favors by earbashing everyone within megaphone distance about how they're virginal and therefore a better human being because of it.

Yes the Dali Lama does it, but more often than not it's due to him being prodded about it, like your friends. And both examples still don't resort to braying about their lack of sexual experience as something universal to everyone.

So essentially - the evangelical virgin. Who is a lot like the evangelical teetotaler, or the evangelical ladies man* or evangelical vegetarian or the... etc

They place themselves upon a pedestal and like trying to convert people to their own philosophy, generally while being superior and judgmental. A conversation on the virtues to a particular approach to something is fine, but a persistent attempt that seems like they're trying to "convert/guilt the heathens" is not.

Which doesn't so much mean they're boring to me, but rather they're annoying.

* I can find people who go on constantly about how much sex they have, while judging those who don't have the same desire for it and trying to get everyone to agree it's the most awesome thing ever and "Johnny/Sarah you're such losers if you don't come out and get laid with me tonight" to be just as tiring and disagreeable.

Correction: it would have validity if sex were a negative thing, or at least had tangible negative consequences. Exercising self-control is good and even admirable (at least I think it is) when it comes to actually unhealthy habits like eating wrong, smoking or drinking. I just can't see the value of not having sex, since it's universally agreed that sex is good for you.

Who says if a person has decided to "exercise self control" that the things they aren't going for are things they view as negative? It could simply be that they prefer to hold out for the best experiences, or things on their terms etc over doing as much of something as they can or just because the opportunity is available.

I know, speaking for myself, I'd prefer to have no sex then sex that was no good or sex with someone I didn't feel like having sex with, just for the sake of having sex. I was a virgin until I was ready, and I was ready when I found someone I actually wanted to have sex with - which is no slight on my couple of high school loves, we messed around and had great fun, but sex simply wasn't a stage we went for, so we didn't - not because we held onto some purity silliness or were waiting for marriage (definitely not the last one, since none of us were the marrying type). Likewise for times before I had sex when it could of happened. It simply wasn't something I felt a want for with them at that time.

Ah, but if sex outside of a relationship actually were a bad thing, it'd mean that sex itself is inherently bad. Which it isn't. Is eating tacos outside of a relationship bad? It's the same difference.

I don't think it does mean "it's inherently bad" - different strokes, different folks. If they say it's bad "for everyone", you might have a point. If they, personally, just are more comfortable with sex within the confines of a relationship and don't like the idea of sex outside of one, or casual sexual relationships, then there is really nothing wrong with that. There's types of relationships I don't think would be good for me and I have no desire for, but somebody does it and is happy? That's great.

And who's saying that self-gratifying sex and emotional sex cannot coexist outside of a marriage? Having sex with someone means attraction and acceptance. How is that not emotionally gratifying? It doesn't have to be "OMG we're so in love" sex. Being too cutesy kills desire, at least for me.

You really can't take an absolutist approach in this. Self-gratifying sex and emotional sex can coexist outside of a marriage - for lots of people. Not everyone. Which is fine.

Some people simply like physical intimacy with individuals they feel they have reached a certain level of emotional and mental intimacy with. That level differs for everyone, and some people aren't as concerned about it at all. Which is all good.

For me, it's just because I'm fed the fuck up with virgins who think virginity is an ideal state of being and that it should be protected at all cost, because having sex means caving in to base instincts and moral degradation. Fuck no. That's just a story virgins tell themselves because they feel bad since they aren't getting any. And any person who tries to elevate themself above others is a terrible human being and should be ashamed of themself. Ay emm aitch oh.

I'll have nobody judging me for having sex. Nobody.

I think it is fair to be annoyed when people get all preachy and judgey about something like that - it is wrong. But you're sounding a little judgey yourself, I've got to say. I hope you get as annoyed at people who judge others for not having sex, and you'd have got as annoyed at people who might have judged you when you a virgin.

Which again highlights the point that "virginity" and "chastity are concepts which are highly misogynist to begin with and patently primitive overall.

Exactly.

It's such a nebulous, unnecessary concept I'm unsure how the argument turned inevitably to "we shouldn't shame virgins either".

No, we shouldn't, but I doubt people have reasonable or good reasons for valuing it enough not to "waste" it. The concept isn't even well-defined. We don't even know what we would be shaming them about.

There is nothing to shame them about. When it happens, which is a bit, it can be for any number of reasons - "you haven't had sex yet? Frigid/loser/unpopular/not a man/cock tease/gay/weird/such a baby/etc*"

Seems to be people who do it contribute value to having had sex at least once (much like some people contribute value to having never had sex), and failing to have done so says something negative about the person. Which is, needless to say, frickin' stupid.

I'm still confused on why virginity is a good thing to preserve, like a credit rating.

I don't personally think it is a thing we should consider to be of symbolic significance or cultural significance, because it isn't something that should affect how one views another person. If it is to have any value, it should be entirely personal, and that value can be for whatever reason - if it is what a person is happy and comfortable with, it is good.

People simply shouldn't feel like they have to have sex. I can think of plenty of reasons why someone might decide to not to have sex (or hold off). Like, one of the bigger reasons I can think of - just waiting till they are ready and comfortable with it - be their first time in a completely casual bout, in a prolonged relationship, or anything in between. After the "first time" we're not expected to jump into bed with everyone we can when ever we can (but it is cool if you like that and get to have that), no reason prior to one's "first time" you should be expected to take the first chance you get, with whoever you can get.

Then there people who'd like to have sex, but haven't had the chance. And by the same token no one should feel like they shouldn't have sex, or want to have.

The thing worth preserving is respect for people's sexual choices and freedom - whether that means they are a virgin for whatever reason or not.

[Condunum]

The girls I hung out with.

Come to think of it, I actually didn't hang out with girls much in high school.

I never met a boy who did. Most girls, even the floozy ones, thought I was "weird." No women hanged around with me,

I knew a few who did. Generally, that type was the ones who didn't care for relationships, and all they wanted to do was talk about whatever game or book they loved that week.

[Ayreonia]

Who says if a person has decided to "exercise self control" that the things they aren't going for are things they view as negative? It could simply be that they prefer to hold out for the best experiences, or things on their terms etc over doing as much of something as they can or just because the opportunity is available.

I know, speaking for myself, I'd prefer to have no sex then sex that was no good or sex with someone I didn't feel like having sex with, just for the sake of having sex. I was a virgin until I was ready, and I was ready when I found someone I actually wanted to have sex with - which is no slight on my couple of high school loves, we messed around and had great fun, but sex simply wasn't a stage we went for, so we didn't - not because we held onto some purity silliness or were waiting for marriage (definitely not the last one, since none of us were the marrying type). Likewise for times before I had sex when it could of happened. It simply wasn't something I felt a want for with them at that time.

I don't believe in self-control for the sake of self-control. It's not a value in itself, no more than virginity or nonvirginity are. Self-control is a means to an end.

How can you know the sex is not good if you don't do it? Might be it's great, and you bond with the person you slept with. You're missing opportunities. I do get your point, however. People have different levels of sexual drive. Far be it from me to judge.

I don't think it does mean "it's inherently bad" - different strokes, different folks. If they say it's bad "for everyone", you might have a point. If they, personally, just are more comfortable with sex within the confines of a relationship and don't like the idea of sex outside of one, or casual sexual relationships, then there is really nothing wrong with that. There's types of relationships I don't think would be good for me and I have no desire for, but somebody does it and is happy? That's great.

If you read back a few pages, you'll see that the "sex is inherently bad" argument has been used. Yeah, you might be comfortable or uncomfortable with having sex with this person or that, but that does not mean that sex itself is bad, ever. Don't like tacos? That doesn't mean tacos are bad and immoral.

You really can't take an absolutist approach in this. Self-gratifying sex and emotional sex can coexist outside of a marriage - for lots of people. Not everyone. Which is fine.

Some people simply like physical intimacy with individuals they feel they have reached a certain level of emotional and mental intimacy with. That level differs for everyone, and some people aren't as concerned about it at all. Which is all good.

Can't really disagree on this.

I think it is fair to be annoyed when people get all preachy and judgey about something like that - it is wrong. But you're sounding a little judgey yourself, I've got to say. I hope you get as annoyed at people who judge others for not having sex, and you'd have got as annoyed at people who might have judged you when you a virgin.

I was bullied by my peers when I was little. Let's just say that I don't sit back and watch when I see it happen.

[Ethel mermania]

The girls I hung out with.

Come to think of it, I actually didn't hang out with girls much in high school.

I never met a boy who did. Most girls, even the floozy ones, thought I was "weird." No women hanged around with me,

there were girls in the crew i hung out with. same as college. i wasnt the only boy in either group

[Ethel mermania]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

thank god for women who sleep around, who else would i have hung out with in skewl?

What if I told you that these already happens? Crazy right?

as per this thread, i wouldnt believe it.

[Northern Dominus]

i think we need to start virgin shaming and slut complimenting.

I can't find anyone who would be willing to have sex with me, oh well- I guess I should feel ashamed.

There's always the Craigslist personals...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Who says if a person has decided to "exercise self control" that the things they aren't going for are things they view as negative? It could simply be that they prefer to hold out for the best experiences, or things on their terms etc over doing as much of something as they can or just because the opportunity is available.

I know, speaking for myself, I'd prefer to have no sex then sex that was no good or sex with someone I didn't feel like having sex with, just for the sake of having sex. I was a virgin until I was ready, and I was ready when I found someone I actually wanted to have sex with - which is no slight on my couple of high school loves, we messed around and had great fun, but sex simply wasn't a stage we went for, so we didn't - not because we held onto some purity silliness or were waiting for marriage (definitely not the last one, since none of us were the marrying type). Likewise for times before I had sex when it could of happened. It simply wasn't something I felt a want for with them at that time.

I don't believe in self-control for the sake of self-control. It's not a value in itself, no more than virginity or nonvirginity are. Self-control is a means to an end.

How can you know the sex is not good if you don't do it? Might be it's great, and you bond with the person you slept with. You're missing opportunities. I do get your point, however. People have different levels of sexual drive. Far be it from me to judge.

I don't think it does mean "it's inherently bad" - different strokes, different folks. If they say it's bad "for everyone", you might have a point. If they, personally, just are more comfortable with sex within the confines of a relationship and don't like the idea of sex outside of one, or casual sexual relationships, then there is really nothing wrong with that. There's types of relationships I don't think would be good for me and I have no desire for, but somebody does it and is happy? That's great.

If you read back a few pages, you'll see that the "sex is inherently bad" argument has been used. Yeah, you might be comfortable or uncomfortable with having sex with this person or that, but that does not mean that sex itself is bad, ever. Don't like tacos? That doesn't mean tacos are bad and immoral.

You really can't take an absolutist approach in this. Self-gratifying sex and emotional sex can coexist outside of a marriage - for lots of people. Not everyone. Which is fine.

Some people simply like physical intimacy with individuals they feel they have reached a certain level of emotional and mental intimacy with. That level differs for everyone, and some people aren't as concerned about it at all. Which is all good.

Can't really disagree on this.

I think it is fair to be annoyed when people get all preachy and judgey about something like that - it is wrong. But you're sounding a little judgey yourself, I've got to say. I hope you get as annoyed at people who judge others for not having sex, and you'd have got as annoyed at people who might have judged you when you a virgin.

I was bullied by my peers when I was little. Let's just say that I don't sit back and watch when I see it happen.

Self control sometimes is a value for people. The problem I see here is that somehow you think a "value" has to be something shared by the community in which you live in. You don't get to choose who has placed a value over what. Values are entirely personal and something you don't value may be something others value (I value self-control, because that's what's kept me from kicking other people's asses when they have insulted me, and that's also what's kept me with a clean criminal record, good standing with my peers, good standing with women, etc.) so to me self-control is a value, I value it because it helps in life.

It doesn't mean I expect for everyone else to have the same degree of self-control I do, but I, personally, like to have self-control over my actions, because fuck having to meet other people on their terms, I will do what I please and if anyone is willing to debate such a stupid point over, then the answer is it still the same: my body, my rules. It does, however go back around: my choice to remain a virgin is as valid as your choice to sleep around casually. They are not wrong, it's simply different views; however, if you are a dick about me being a virgin I have all the right to be a dick about being a virgin back.

And sex in and of itself is never bad, ever. The problem is some of us add a value that is different from your own. I want, for instance, to be in a good, long-term relationship before having sex with somebody. It isn't wrong, it isn't what you may or may not do, it simply is what I have decided because I choose who to sleep with, nobody else gets to choose who I get to sleep with or when. This is, at least, what many people think.

As for the bullying, I was also bullied when I was little. I break it off among children, but I was bullied by both my peers and my brothers for it. I am more laid back and I tend not to engage in stupid fights over something idiotic like that, but if someone is acting like a fool in real life, I don't hesitate to express my disapproval, but I have never fought anyone over about it.