Value of virginity and slut-shaming

[Nailed to the Perch]

That's... not how I wanted to come across. I have friends who are similarly aged but still virgins and I enjoy spending time with them immensely. They don't rub their virginity in my face, I don't rub my sex life in theirs (unless they ask). We get along fine. However, if any of them tried to tell me they're better people than me because I'm no virgin, I wouldn't react positively. I'd probably punch them.

You have a...

Yeah, no. Being a virgin is perfectly fine. Not being a virgin is also perfectly fine. It's not an improvement to move from "if you have sex you're icky" to "if you don't have sex you're boring."

Like I was say...

Nope. How much or how little sex you've had has nothing to do with if you're boring or interesting.

Okay, yes, I made a blanket statement and posted before thinking about it. I apologize.

To go back to Ayreonia's original point and my (rather silly) bit, if we're using the word "virgin" to define a human being who makes a big deal about not having sex, then I stand by the notion that they are boring. The individuals that Ayreonia noted that are virgins but don't make a big deal of it most likely do not because they're too busy doing other things IE having a life.

A "virgin" (again defining a person who goes out of their way to note that they haven't had any sort of sexual contact or up to X point) on the other hand is a boring person. Because if they're making a point of that then they probably don't have much else going on in their life to occupy them.

And, let's be honest here, the sex drives sometimes encourages people to do silly or insane things. Even if they don't play out, that drive usually ends in a good story and a bonding experience for more than one person regardless of the coitus or lack thereof as a result. Therefore they have that experience and story to tell and are therefore most likely perceived as more interesting. To wit, bragging about one's sexual exploits in an unsolicited fashion is just as annoying and off-putting as bragging about one's lack of sexual experience, but in the end experience and daring make for a more interesting person.

While this position is less offensive, I still disagree entirely. It is entirely possible for abstaining from sex to be a big deal for someone and something they discuss openly without that meaning they don't "have a life." I mean, I don't think the Dalai Lama has any shortage of interesting stories to tell.

[Northern Dominus]

You have a...

Like I was say...

Okay, yes, I made a blanket statement and posted before thinking about it. I apologize.

To go back to Ayreonia's original point and my (rather silly) bit, if we're using the word "virgin" to define a human being who makes a big deal about not having sex, then I stand by the notion that they are boring. The individuals that Ayreonia noted that are virgins but don't make a big deal of it most likely do not because they're too busy doing other things IE having a life.

A "virgin" (again defining a person who goes out of their way to note that they haven't had any sort of sexual contact or up to X point) on the other hand is a boring person. Because if they're making a point of that then they probably don't have much else going on in their life to occupy them.

And, let's be honest here, the sex drives sometimes encourages people to do silly or insane things. Even if they don't play out, that drive usually ends in a good story and a bonding experience for more than one person regardless of the coitus or lack thereof as a result. Therefore they have that experience and story to tell and are therefore most likely perceived as more interesting. To wit, bragging about one's sexual exploits in an unsolicited fashion is just as annoying and off-putting as bragging about one's lack of sexual experience, but in the end experience and daring make for a more interesting person.

While this position is less offensive, I still disagree entirely. It is entirely possible for abstaining from sex to be a big deal for someone and something they discuss openly without that meaning they don't "have a life." I mean, I don't think the Dalai Lama has any shortage of interesting stories to tell.

And do you know why the Dali Lama has interesting stories to tell? It's because he thinks about deep things other than his virginity, he travels the world and does interesting things and meets interesting people, and interesting people come and see him. His celibacy is pretty much a far tertiary part of his public persona, if at all.

To borrow a turn of phrase the "out and proud" virgins who love to bray about it on blogs or on youtube or in person are boring because... I mean what the hell can you do with being a virgin really? Go XYZ place and nag everybody about being a virgin? Sooner or later the story becomes the same and rather dull.

[Choronzon]

While this position is less offensive, I still disagree entirely. It is entirely possible for abstaining from sex to be a big deal for someone and something they discuss openly without that meaning they don't "have a life." I mean, I don't think the Dalai Lama has any shortage of interesting stories to tell.

And do you know why the Dali Lama has interesting stories to tell? It's because he thinks about deep things other than his virginity, he travels the world and does interesting things and meets interesting people, and interesting people come and see him. His celibacy is pretty much a far tertiary part of his public persona, if at all.

To borrow a turn of phrase the "out and proud" virgins who love to bray about it on blogs or on youtube or in person are boring because... I mean what the hell can you do with being a virgin really? Go XYZ place and nag everybody about being a virgin? Sooner or later the story becomes the same and rather dull.

You know, I actually met one of these people in real life. Someone who wasted no time bringing up his virginity at gatherings and parties, even to complete strangers.

It was incredibly irritating.

[Condunum]

The only thing I've see it change is familiarity with sex. If that's your definition of how enjoyable a person is... Well, I wont say anything.

...sigh, see above. Yes I made a generalization. As for personal enjoyment... I'll just leave that rimshot hanging

And that's exactly why I didn't finish the statement

[Condunum]

And do you know why the Dali Lama has interesting stories to tell? It's because he thinks about deep things other than his virginity, he travels the world and does interesting things and meets interesting people, and interesting people come and see him. His celibacy is pretty much a far tertiary part of his public persona, if at all.

To borrow a turn of phrase the "out and proud" virgins who love to bray about it on blogs or on youtube or in person are boring because... I mean what the hell can you do with being a virgin really? Go XYZ place and nag everybody about being a virgin? Sooner or later the story becomes the same and rather dull.

You know, I actually met one of these people in real life. Someone who wasted no time bringing up his virginity at gatherings and parties, even to complete strangers.

It was incredibly irritating.

Usually those people couple their virginity with "XXX STR8 3DG3 HARDCOR33333"

[Ayreonia]

Okay, yes, I made a blanket statement and posted before thinking about it. I apologize.

To go back to Ayreonia's original point and my (rather silly) bit, if we're using the word "virgin" to define a human being who makes a big deal about not having sex, then I stand by the notion that they are boring. The individuals that Ayreonia noted that are virgins but don't make a big deal of it most likely do not because they're too busy doing other things IE having a life.

A "virgin" (again defining a person who goes out of their way to note that they haven't had any sort of sexual contact or up to X point) on the other hand is a boring person. Because if they're making a point of that then they probably don't have much else going on in their life to occupy them.

And, let's be honest here, the sex drives sometimes encourages people to do silly or insane things. Even if they don't play out, that drive usually ends in a good story and a bonding experience for more than one person regardless of the coitus or lack thereof as a result. Therefore they have that experience and story to tell and are therefore most likely perceived as more interesting. To wit, bragging about one's sexual exploits in an unsolicited fashion is just as annoying and off-putting as bragging about one's lack of sexual experience, but in the end experience and daring make for a more interesting person.

I don't think stories come into it. Sexuality is simply so ingrained into our society that people who don't partake are often thought to ignore other aspects of social interaction, too. And sadly, it's often true. Many virgins I know are awkward around other people, which is more than often the cause of their virginity. Hence the notion that virgins are boring.

It's not always the case, though. Some are just plain hopeless when dealing with the opposite sex, but are otherwise fun people.

[Choronzon]

You know, I actually met one of these people in real life. Someone who wasted no time bringing up his virginity at gatherings and parties, even to complete strangers.

It was incredibly irritating.

Usually those people couple their virginity with "XXX STR8 3DG3 HARDCOR33333"

He chain smoked, so that whole straightedge thing wouldn't have really worked.

He also liked As I Lay Dying, so you knew there was something wrong with him.

[Condunum]

Usually those people couple their virginity with "XXX STR8 3DG3 HARDCOR33333"

He chain smoked, so that whole straightedge thing wouldn't have really worked.

He also liked As I Lay Dying, so you knew there was something wrong with him.

...
To be fair, I have one of their earlier albums, it's okay. They aren't anything special. Now, Amon Amarth... But that's for another time in another place.
I also happen to like All That Remains.

[Rocopurr]

I don't think stories come into it. Sexuality is simply so ingrained into our society that people who don't partake are often thought to ignore other aspects of social interaction, too. And sadly, it's often true. Many virgins I know are awkward around other people, which is more than often the cause of their virginity.

Little Tommy isn't a virgin because he's five but instead because he's awkward, right? :P

Usually those people couple their virginity with "XXX STR8 3DG3 HARDCOR33333"

My eyes are bleeding.

[Northern Dominus]

And do you know why the Dali Lama has interesting stories to tell? It's because he thinks about deep things other than his virginity, he travels the world and does interesting things and meets interesting people, and interesting people come and see him. His celibacy is pretty much a far tertiary part of his public persona, if at all.

To borrow a turn of phrase the "out and proud" virgins who love to bray about it on blogs or on youtube or in person are boring because... I mean what the hell can you do with being a virgin really? Go XYZ place and nag everybody about being a virgin? Sooner or later the story becomes the same and rather dull.

You know, I actually met one of these people in real life. Someone who wasted no time bringing up his virginity at gatherings and parties, even to complete strangers.

It was incredibly irritating.

Isn't it just? Blog posts are bad enough but when some dork comes right out of the gate with that... I mean is it any wonder?

You know, I actually met one of these people in real life. Someone who wasted no time bringing up his virginity at gatherings and parties, even to complete strangers.

It was incredibly irritating.

Usually those people couple their virginity with "XXX STR8 3DG3 HARDCOR33333"

Yeah well those people would usually be annoying prats regardless of which ideology they bastardized . I know a few straightedge folks and believe me, they're anything but celibate...and one's a rather attractive woman with incredible body art so I maybe giving up the drink is not a bad idea...

Okay, yes, I made a blanket statement and posted before thinking about it. I apologize.

To go back to Ayreonia's original point and my (rather silly) bit, if we're using the word "virgin" to define a human being who makes a big deal about not having sex, then I stand by the notion that they are boring. The individuals that Ayreonia noted that are virgins but don't make a big deal of it most likely do not because they're too busy doing other things IE having a life.

A "virgin" (again defining a person who goes out of their way to note that they haven't had any sort of sexual contact or up to X point) on the other hand is a boring person. Because if they're making a point of that then they probably don't have much else going on in their life to occupy them.

And, let's be honest here, the sex drives sometimes encourages people to do silly or insane things. Even if they don't play out, that drive usually ends in a good story and a bonding experience for more than one person regardless of the coitus or lack thereof as a result. Therefore they have that experience and story to tell and are therefore most likely perceived as more interesting. To wit, bragging about one's sexual exploits in an unsolicited fashion is just as annoying and off-putting as bragging about one's lack of sexual experience, but in the end experience and daring make for a more interesting person.

I don't think stories come into it. Sexuality is simply so ingrained into our society that people who don't partake are often thought to ignore other aspects of social interaction, too. And sadly, it's often true. Many virgins I know are awkward around other people, which is more than often the cause of their virginity.

BUt see, that's something else entirely. Virginity due to awkwardness is relatable and rather human, and odds are most people would be willing to work with a shy awkward individual if they got past that shell to find the human underneath, help them find their confidence.

The "virgin" in question is the kind that Choro described, the "out and loud" version that bludgeons everyone around them with it rather than either going with the flow of conversation or having a good story to tell.

[Choronzon]

. Now, Amon Amarth...

The only acceptable way to end this sentence is "...is probably one of the greatest metal acts ever."

[Condunum]

. Now, Amon Amarth...

The only acceptable way to end this sentence is "...is probably one of the greatest metal acts ever."

There isn't a single brain cell in my head that doesn't associate Viking Metal with amazing.

[Choronzon]

The only acceptable way to end this sentence is "...is probably one of the greatest metal acts ever."

There isn't a single brain cell in my head that doesn't associate Viking Metal with amazing.

Amon Amarth is one of those bands that can get away with murder, as far as I'm concerned. If any other band pulled all the chessey shit they almost routinely pull I would be outraged. But its Amon Amarth doing it, so its awesome.

And thats where I'll leave this threadjack.

[Nailed to the Perch]

While this position is less offensive, I still disagree entirely. It is entirely possible for abstaining from sex to be a big deal for someone and something they discuss openly without that meaning they don't "have a life." I mean, I don't think the Dalai Lama has any shortage of interesting stories to tell.

And do you know why the Dali Lama has interesting stories to tell? It's because he thinks about deep things other than his virginity, he travels the world and does interesting things and meets interesting people, and interesting people come and see him. His celibacy is pretty much a far tertiary part of his public persona, if at all.

To borrow a turn of phrase the "out and proud" virgins who love to bray about it on blogs or on youtube or in person are boring because... I mean what the hell can you do with being a virgin really? Go XYZ place and nag everybody about being a virgin? Sooner or later the story becomes the same and rather dull.

The thing is, you're conflating "abstaining from sex, talking about abstaining from sex, and considering abstaining from sex a good and important thing that you do" with "constantly being a dick about abstaining from sex." The Dalai Lama does all of the former. He's still pretty obviously an interesting person.

Or, to use a more personal example - a couple who are good friends of mine both were so hardcore into chastity that their first kiss was on their wedding day. They're lovely, kind, charming people, who both wore "purity rings" before marriage and would happily answer questions about the rings and what they symbolized for them, and who have spoken both before and after getting married about how that decision to abstain was the right one for them. They also have cool careers, fun hobbies, impressive accomplishments, and full, vivid personalities, neither because or in spite of being virgins until marriage. It's not a thing that makes them better than anyone else (nor would they say it was). It's also not a thing that makes them worse than anyone else. It's just a thing about them, no different in terms of their value as human beings than if they both chose not to cut their hair or they both chose not to eat pork or something.

Which, then, leaves you not with "virgins are boring" but rather "people who nag everyone else about the same topic over and over are boring." Which is obviously true, but has nothing at all to do with what that topic happens to be. If all anyone could talk about was how they think haircuts are the WORST and they would NEVER cut their hair, that person would be pretty dull, but that wouldn't magically render all Sikhs boring by association. Virgins aren't boring. Boring people (who may or may not be virgins) are boring.

[Ayreonia]

I don't think stories come into it. Sexuality is simply so ingrained into our society that people who don't partake are often thought to ignore other aspects of social interaction, too. And sadly, it's often true. Many virgins I know are awkward around other people, which is more than often the cause of their virginity.

Little Tommy isn't a virgin because he's five but instead because he's awkward, right?

Little Tommy would probably be acting pretty awkwardly if he was trying to get laid.

BUt see, that's something else entirely. Virginity due to awkwardness is relatable and rather human, and odds are most people would be willing to work with a shy awkward individual if they got past that shell to find the human underneath, help them find their confidence.

The "virgin" in question is the kind that Choro described, the "out and loud" version that bludgeons everyone around them with it rather than either going with the flow of conversation or having a good story to tell.

Well, yeah, but my point was more like "virgins aren't boring people because they're virgins, but boring people are virgins because they're boring."

[Northern Dominus]

And do you know why the Dali Lama has interesting stories to tell? It's because he thinks about deep things other than his virginity, he travels the world and does interesting things and meets interesting people, and interesting people come and see him. His celibacy is pretty much a far tertiary part of his public persona, if at all.

To borrow a turn of phrase the "out and proud" virgins who love to bray about it on blogs or on youtube or in person are boring because... I mean what the hell can you do with being a virgin really? Go XYZ place and nag everybody about being a virgin? Sooner or later the story becomes the same and rather dull.

The thing is, you're conflating "abstaining from sex, talking about abstaining from sex, and considering abstaining from sex a good and important thing that you do" with "constantly being a dick about abstaining from sex." The Dalai Lama does all of the former. He's still pretty obviously an interesting person.

Or, to use a more personal example - a couple who are good friends of mine both were so hardcore into chastity that their first kiss was on their wedding day. They're lovely, kind, charming people, who both wore "purity rings" before marriage and would happily answer questions about the rings and what they symbolized for them, and who have spoken both before and after getting married about how that decision to abstain was the right one for them. They also have cool careers, fun hobbies, impressive accomplishments, and full, vivid personalities, neither because or in spite of being virgins until marriage. It's not a thing that makes them better than anyone else (nor would they say it was). It's also not a thing that makes them worse than anyone else. It's just a thing about them, no different in terms of their value as human beings than if they both chose not to cut their hair or they both chose not to eat pork or something.

I think I cleared it up earlier, but yes you're right. My umbrage and the target of that (again silly) quip was the "out and loud" virgins who bludgeon people with it out of the gate rather than integrate into the flow of normal conversation, or it's one of the top three things mentioned after "tell me about yourself" is asked of them. If it's important to them that's all well and dandy but they're not doing anyone any favors by earbashing everyone within megaphone distance about how they're virginal and therefore a better human being because of it.

Yes the Dali Lama does it, but more often than not it's due to him being prodded about it, like your friends. And both examples still don't resort to braying about their lack of sexual experience as something universal to everyone.

[Union of Confederate Socialist Republics]

What's wrong with having sex before marriage in the first place?

[The Rich Port]

What's wrong with having sex before marriage in the first place?

A question asked since the beginning that nobody has adequately answered.

[Ayreonia]

What's wrong with having sex before marriage in the first place?

That's what we're trying to find out.

[Rocopurr]

What's wrong with having sex before marriage in the first place?

The answer is simple: There is nothing wrong with that.

[Individuality-ness]

What's wrong with having sex before marriage in the first place?

The answer is simple: There is nothing wrong with that.

Exactly.

Also, as a reminder, please don't quote pornspam.

[Northern Dominus]

The answer is simple: There is nothing wrong with that.

Exactly.

Also, as a reminder, please don't quote pornspam.

We got spam, spam, spam, celebrity sex spam, more spam spam spam and eggs, spam...

[Individuality-ness]

Exactly.

Also, as a reminder, please don't quote pornspam.

We got spam, spam, spam, celebrity sex spam, more spam spam spam and eggs, spam...

Delicious spam. Salty spam. Spam.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Exactly.

Also, as a reminder, please don't quote pornspam.

We got spam, spam, spam, celebrity sex spam, more spam spam spam and eggs, spam...

Oooh, now I want eggs. Maybe I can get my nana to make me eggs with my steak...

[Northern Dominus]

We got spam, spam, spam, celebrity sex spam, more spam spam spam and eggs, spam...

Oooh, now I want eggs. Maybe I can get my nana to make me eggs with my steak...

... I have free-range eggs. All the way from Minooka?