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Creationism vs. Evolution

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What do you believe in?

Darwinian Evolution
477
67%
Young Earth Creationism
39
6%
Old Earth Creationism
25
4%
Intelligent Design
48
7%
Theistic Evolution
88
12%
Other
30
4%
 
Total votes : 707

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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:15 am

Theistic Evolution for the win.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 am

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:Theistic Evolution for the win.

How is that a win?
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:18 am

Dyakovo wrote:
The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:Theistic Evolution for the win.

How is that a win?

Because it's what he happens to believe in, so it's a win for him.
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Yaltabaoth
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Postby Yaltabaoth » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:55 am

Frisivisia wrote:
Sporkin wrote:I'm a pantheist, so make of that what you will.

-braces for lynching-

Don't worry little buddy, we'll only lynch you a little bit.

A micro-lynching.

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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:04 am

Creationism obviously true. I buried the fossils to dick with future generations.
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Chinese Regions
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Postby Chinese Regions » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:56 am

Pharthan wrote:Creationism, if for no other reason to attempt to play Devil's Advocate/12th Juror to the scientific opinion (since it, after all, has no actual effect on my life).
Having the masses all believe one theory only leads to stagnation of intellectual and technological advancement.

In modern society, most people take a "OH UR CHRISTIUN SO UR DUMB" policy, which is incredibly bigoted, and my general goal is, in any faculty I happen to be a part of, be it real life on online forum, to try to be a voice against that. (It still boggles my mind how people can be intolerant towards Christianity... for being intolerant. It's the only group of people you can be prejudice against and get praise. You can't even hate on fat people anymore. The lack of political correctness from the attempt at political correctness baffles me.)

I've actually seen a lot against Evolution; most of it involves relatively simple math, time-tables, and more extensive research into inaccuracies of carbon-dating (I really need to find all of that research, but it's difficult to find (liberal media tends to not publish what they don't like, go figure) and that was some time ago that I found that. The sheer luck of our existence influences my beliefs (the more you understand about the universe, the more near-impossibility of our existence seems all the more staggering and humbling). Yes, I know what the anthropic principle is. I don't support on the sheer fact that believe that it takes away from the beauty of our complex universe, which is beautiful no matter how it was created.
It's not just that Creationism simplifies things for me, it's that I struggle to believe that science "finally has it."
Every couple hundred years or so we find out that we were wrong about some big theory and we have to start all over again. I refuse to buy into a system of beliefs in which the resultant is that science stagnates trying to make progress because they feel as though they have all of the answers.
Creationism results in those who don't believe in the religion, and there will always be those who don't, trying to disprove said religion.

Individuality-ness wrote:So, list of sites that show evidence FOR the theory of evolution via natural selection:


http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
http://www.txtwriter.com/backgrounders/ ... tents.html
http://bioweb.cs.earlham.edu/9-12/evolu ... /live.html
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... 0/lines_01
http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... _tiktaalik
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... /devitt_01
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... history_23
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... history_16
http://www.allaboutcreation.org/evidenc ... lution.htm
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/fitch/cours ... dence.html
http://www.imls.uzh.ch/research/noll/pu ... 73_785.pdf
http://www.cell.com/developmental-cell/ ... 0703003253
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/07/scien ... .html?_r=1
http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/3/221
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1006000526
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/310/5746/287
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WAHpC0Ah0
http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/molb.ws.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 331a0.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 050603.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 071801.php
http://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20060327/evo.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
http://scienceray.com/biology/zoology/a ... maritimus/
http://facstaff.gpc.edu/~pgore/geology/ ... vation.pdf
http://www.nmsr.org/nylon.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc ... l#atavisms
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAC3481305829426D
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
http://exploringorigins.org/rnaworld.html
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/ ... cleotides/
http://itol.embl.de/
http://tolweb.org/tree/
http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/
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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:59 am

Immoren wrote:Creationism obviously true. I buried the fossils to dick with future generations.

Wait a second... if you're God, logic dictates that Finland is the Kingdom of Heaven. We've been had!
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Lunatic Goofballs
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:06 am

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Immoren wrote:Creationism obviously true. I buried the fossils to dick with future generations.

Wait a second... if you're God, logic dictates that Finland is the Kingdom of Heaven. We've been had!


Image

Perkele.
Life's Short. Munch Tacos.

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Czechanada
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Postby Czechanada » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:07 am

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Wait a second... if you're God, logic dictates that Finland is the Kingdom of Heaven. We've been had!


Image

Perkele.


Answer me this: If there are tacos evolved from burritos, why do we still have burritos?
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Lunatic Goofballs
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:17 am

Czechanada wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Image

Perkele.


Answer me this: If there are tacos evolved from burritos, why do we still have burritos?


IF Tacos descended from burritos, that might be a fair question. But tacos didn't descent from burritos. They descended from a common ancestor; the chīllapītzalli. *nod*
Life's Short. Munch Tacos.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:18 am

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Czechanada wrote:
Answer me this: If there are tacos evolved from burritos, why do we still have burritos?


IF Tacos descended from burritos, that might be a fair question. But tacos didn't descent from burritos. They descended from a common ancestor; the chīllapītzalli. *nod*

I think that might be one of the best comedic come-backs of all time.

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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:19 am

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Immoren wrote:Creationism obviously true. I buried the fossils to dick with future generations.

Wait a second... if you're God, logic dictates that Finland is the Kingdom of Heaven. We've been had!


What if I were not a deity, but just bored immortal with too much time his hands? *nods*
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discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:51 am

Immoren wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Wait a second... if you're God, logic dictates that Finland is the Kingdom of Heaven. We've been had!

What if I were not a deity, but just bored immortal with too much time his hands? *nods*

Same difference, my dear Immoren.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Ayreonia
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Postby Ayreonia » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:14 am

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Immoren wrote:Creationism obviously true. I buried the fossils to dick with future generations.

Wait a second... if you're God, logic dictates that Finland is the Kingdom of Heaven. We've been had!

Republic of Heaven. In Finland, we nitpick on God's tax filing and put him out of office if we don't like him.
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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:17 am

Immoren wrote:Creationism obviously true. I buried the fossils to dick with future generations.

I thought those fossils were God's shit. :?
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Arkhanic Assassins
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Postby Arkhanic Assassins » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:25 am

Well, if the theory evolution is perfectly true, and survival of the fittest really stands out. I don't see why we're the only species to adapt sentient intelligence and a complex system of languages. Shouldn't all apes and monkeys have evolved into human beings by now? After all, we can defend ourselves and survive as a race more than they ever can.

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Ayreonia
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Postby Ayreonia » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:31 am

Arkhanic Assassins wrote:Well, if the theory evolution is perfectly true, and survival of the fittest really stands out. I don't see why we're the only species to adapt sentient intelligence and a complex system of languages. Shouldn't all apes and monkeys have evolved into human beings by now? After all, we can defend ourselves and survive as a race more than they ever can.

We aren't. The Neanderthals were wiped out.
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Arkhanic Assassins
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Postby Arkhanic Assassins » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:32 am

Ayreonia wrote:
Arkhanic Assassins wrote:Well, if the theory evolution is perfectly true, and survival of the fittest really stands out. I don't see why we're the only species to adapt sentient intelligence and a complex system of languages. Shouldn't all apes and monkeys have evolved into human beings by now? After all, we can defend ourselves and survive as a race more than they ever can.

We aren't. The Neanderthals were wiped out.


That doesn't answer the question.

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Of the Free Socialist Territories
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Postby Of the Free Socialist Territories » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:33 am

Arkhanic Assassins wrote:Well, if the theory evolution is perfectly true, and survival of the fittest really stands out. I don't see why we're the only species to adapt sentient intelligence and a complex system of languages. Shouldn't all apes and monkeys have evolved into human beings by now?


No, because human beings didn't evolve from apes or monkeys, they evolved from a common ancestor with apes and monkeys.
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Arkhanic Assassins
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Postby Arkhanic Assassins » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:38 am

Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
Arkhanic Assassins wrote:Well, if the theory evolution is perfectly true, and survival of the fittest really stands out. I don't see why we're the only species to adapt sentient intelligence and a complex system of languages. Shouldn't all apes and monkeys have evolved into human beings by now?


No, because human beings didn't evolve from apes or monkeys, they evolved from a common ancestor with apes and monkeys.


I know, but according to the Theory of evolution, superior genes are highly favored and passed on, while inferior genetics will be discarded.
Human intelligence and sentience is quite a powerful genetic trait. The question is, why are we, and we alone, possess it. Wouldn't it be cool if other animals can talk and converse with us or they develop their own language and match our ingenuity, and even build their own civilizations and cultures, and even technology!

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:39 am

Arkhanic Assassins wrote:
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
No, because human beings didn't evolve from apes or monkeys, they evolved from a common ancestor with apes and monkeys.


I know, but according to the Theory of evolution, superior genes are highly favored and passed on, while inferior genetics will be discarded.
Human intelligence and sentience is quite a powerful genetic trait. The question is, why are we, and we alone, possess it. Wouldn't it be cool if other animals can talk and converse with us or they develop their own language and match our ingenuity, and even build their own civilizations and cultures, and even technology!

Except that isn't how evolution works.

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Arkhanic Assassins
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Postby Arkhanic Assassins » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:40 am

Divair wrote:
Arkhanic Assassins wrote:
I know, but according to the Theory of evolution, superior genes are highly favored and passed on, while inferior genetics will be discarded.
Human intelligence and sentience is quite a powerful genetic trait. The question is, why are we, and we alone, possess it. Wouldn't it be cool if other animals can talk and converse with us or they develop their own language and match our ingenuity, and even build their own civilizations and cultures, and even technology!

Except that isn't how evolution works.


So are you saying that Evolution will not favor superior traits? And that humans are the only species that can evolve into such complexity?

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Ayreonia
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Postby Ayreonia » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:41 am

Arkhanic Assassins wrote:
Ayreonia wrote:We aren't. The Neanderthals were wiped out.


That doesn't answer the question.

It does, actually. Homo neanderthalensis was another intelligent species. We aren't the only ones.

You could also argue that some primates have something approaching a set of language.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:42 am

Arkhanic Assassins wrote:So are you saying that Evolution will not favor superior traits?

No. Those with 'superior' traits tend to survive more to procreate. That's all.

Arkhanic Assassins wrote: And that humans are the only species that can evolve into such complexity?

For the foreseeable future on this planet, yes.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:43 am

Arkhanic Assassins wrote:Well, if the theory evolution is perfectly true, and survival of the fittest really stands out. I don't see why we're the only species to adapt sentient intelligence and a complex system of languages. Shouldn't all apes and monkeys have evolved into human beings by now? After all, we can defend ourselves and survive as a race more than they ever can.

What you're conveniently 'forgetting' is that there have been several species of intelligent human beings, such as the Neanderthal, which existed at the same time as our main ancestor, the Cro-Magnon. Evolution already did what you implied, genetic material of those extinct human species can actually be found in our DNA. We are a crossbreed.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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