Creationism vs. Evolution

[Prizea]

Isn't Creationism a facet of Intelligent Design? I am fairly certain they are one and the same so why is there a seperate option for intelligent design?

It is, but in a different syntax.

This creator they're not sure who he is, but most proponents believe is the Christian God, caused the Big Bang, created stars, Earth, etc., created life on Earth and guided it along it's evolutionary path.

cdesign proponentsists

I wonder if we're the only ones who know what that refers to.

I have to confess, it took me a while. It seems a bit too jumbled up.

[Josh Beaty]

Evolution seems to work in my book.

Do the words keep evolving?

My actions in order of occurence upon reading this big bang of a joke: Well played, good sir.

[Myrensis]

cdesign proponentsists

I wonder if we're the only ones who know what that refers to.

[San Splendido]

I wonder if we're the only ones who know what that refers to.

Oh, it's quite the common term on rationalwiki. Which is, by the way, also the best source of info to battle the critters if you consider the alt.talk.origins FAQ a little too unwieldy.

[Sociobiology]

Isn't Creationism a facet of Intelligent Design? I am fairly certain they are one and the same so why is there a seperate option for intelligent design?

Other way around intelligent design is one form of creationism.

[Shamhnan Insir]

Evolution seems to work in my book. However I do have a little trouble with pure atheist view that we are simply vehicles for DNA to make it to the next generation.

We are.

And the giant box in my living room was simply a means of transporting our new table and chairs. Didn't stop me from making a totally rad fort out of it.

Your physical body, including your brain and mind, is nothing more or less than a distended sack of proteins (and lots of bacteria). So use it for whatever glorious shit you can come up with.

I don't mean to say evolution theory is flawed in any way, I graduated with a BSc in Zoology so I fully understand and support the theory! I just wonder why some people (all capable of conscious thought and reasoning) have much more of a survival drive than others (with the same reasoning pathways), a tenacious streak to make it back where many simply others give up. As a selection pressure it seems a little beyond the ordinary, but then again, people like Shackleton undertake adventures that are a little extraordinary anyway.

[The Warring States of the Mediterranean]

It is possible to believe in the fact that God created the world. Yet believe the fact Animals have adapted since then correct?

Like a Creationism and Darwinism cross?

[The Rich Port]

We are.

And the giant box in my living room was simply a means of transporting our new table and chairs. Didn't stop me from making a totally rad fort out of it.

Your physical body, including your brain and mind, is nothing more or less than a distended sack of proteins (and lots of bacteria). So use it for whatever glorious shit you can come up with.

I don't mean to say evolution theory is flawed in any way, I graduated with a BSc in Zoology so I fully understand and support the theory! I just wonder why some people (all capable of conscious thought and reasoning) have much more of a survival drive than others (with the same reasoning pathways), a tenacious streak to make it back where many simply others give up. As a selection pressure it seems a little beyond the ordinary, but then again, people like Shackleton undertake adventures that are a little extraordinary anyway.

The inherent desire not to die.

Dying in nature is a mostly painful, terrifying event, both to witness and to experience. If you witness it or survive it, you're most likely going to pass on that healthy fear to your children.

It's an instinctual rule, not an exception.

[Sociobiology]

We are.

And the giant box in my living room was simply a means of transporting our new table and chairs. Didn't stop me from making a totally rad fort out of it.

Your physical body, including your brain and mind, is nothing more or less than a distended sack of proteins (and lots of bacteria). So use it for whatever glorious shit you can come up with.

I don't mean to say evolution theory is flawed in any way, I graduated with a BSc in Zoology so I fully understand and support the theory! I just wonder why some people (all capable of conscious thought and reasoning) have much more of a survival drive than others (with the same reasoning pathways), a tenacious streak to make it back where many simply others give up. As a selection pressure it seems a little beyond the ordinary, but then again, people like Shackleton undertake adventures that are a little extraordinary anyway.

no it is quite advantageous, the ability to override instinct is what makes such extreme specialization in logic useful.
It also turn out will power is a lot like a muscle the more it it used the stronger that part of the brain becomes and the better t is at overriding other parts. So just like someone who runs a lot will have stronger legs people who work out their willpower will be more tenacious.
Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by tenacity?

[Shamhnan Insir]

I don't mean to say evolution theory is flawed in any way, I graduated with a BSc in Zoology so I fully understand and support the theory! I just wonder why some people (all capable of conscious thought and reasoning) have much more of a survival drive than others (with the same reasoning pathways), a tenacious streak to make it back where many simply others give up. As a selection pressure it seems a little beyond the ordinary, but then again, people like Shackleton undertake adventures that are a little extraordinary anyway.

no it is quite advantageous, the ability to override instinct is what makes such extreme specialization in logic useful.
It also turn out will power is a lot like a muscle the more it it used the stronger that part of the brain becomes and the better t is at overriding other parts.
Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by tenacity.

No, I think you are bang on with the meaning exactly. I guess I'm maybe a little too intrigued into the human mind and it's approach to situations of pretty much certain death. Instinct seems to come from a more base level of thought. Instinct would drive you to do whatever to survive, do you mean that those with lesser will power override their instinct (and therefore give up) with higher level thoughts of failure/dying?

[Bottle]

We are.

And the giant box in my living room was simply a means of transporting our new table and chairs. Didn't stop me from making a totally rad fort out of it.

Your physical body, including your brain and mind, is nothing more or less than a distended sack of proteins (and lots of bacteria). So use it for whatever glorious shit you can come up with.

I don't mean to say evolution theory is flawed in any way, I graduated with a BSc in Zoology so I fully understand and support the theory! I just wonder why some people (all capable of conscious thought and reasoning) have much more of a survival drive than others (with the same reasoning pathways), a tenacious streak to make it back where many simply others give up. As a selection pressure it seems a little beyond the ordinary, but then again, people like Shackleton undertake adventures that are a little extraordinary anyway.

Wasn't meaning to imply that you are Creationists (gad, sir, I would not be so rude!), just pointing out that it is very liberating to realize that the universe has precisely zero intentions for you.

Your life means whatever you decide, because as far as reality is concerned you're just the packaging material for some nucleic acids.

[Bottle]

It is possible to believe in the fact that God created the world. Yet believe the fact Animals have adapted since then correct?

Like a Creationism and Darwinism cross?

Yes, that is called "theistic evolution."

It's a fundamentally useless ideology, but if it makes you happy and you stay the fuck out of science then it can't do much harm.

[Sociobiology]

no it is quite advantageous, the ability to override instinct is what makes such extreme specialization in logic useful.
It also turn out will power is a lot like a muscle the more it it used the stronger that part of the brain becomes and the better t is at overriding other parts.
Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by tenacity.

No, I think you are bang on with the meaning exactly. I guess I'm maybe a little too intrigued into the human mind and it's approach to situations of pretty much certain death. Instinct seems to come from a more base level of thought. Instinct would drive you to do whatever to survive, do you mean that those with lesser will power override their instinct (and therefore give up) with higher level thoughts of failure/dying?

quite the opposite instincts can only develop for situations your ancestors survived, it is quite common to see animals give up when caught by predators, they literally reach a point were they have no instincts, or at least were the instinct point all over the place and fatigue wins.

If you are interested how we decide is a rather good book on the subject of humans. instinct can get you killed, there is a rather good story about a famous firefighter that deals with it.

[Breadknife]

I just wonder why some people (all capable of conscious thought and reasoning) have much more of a survival drive than others (with the same reasoning pathways), a tenacious streak to make it back where many simply others give up.

Not just survival drive. Whether or not it's genetic or not I can report that my father did not... um... 'father' me until he was well into his forties. It appears I'm looking to exceed that by a few more years. (Barring the obligatory "Not that I know of!" answer to the old "Have you any children?" question). Compare and contrast with some people I know who have sped through the generations twice as fast (or faster!) as I... Their genes and the historic genes that they are representing are propogating much faster than the ones that I am the current curator of, whether or not its a genetic component (rather than memetic, or just chance in too short a streak to make any real difference to the composition of the future generations) that is causing this differential.

However, given a different time in history (past and future) the slovenly-breeding genes that I possess might be more propogated (either because of their own qualities or because of related alleles which aren't kicking in right now) for various reasons. For all I know I've got the propensity to become a "Silver Fox", although I never saw signs of my father going down that road.


But it's not just tenacity to survive. Or a valuable, albeit belated, attractiveness for breeding (one can hope!). Carefully-timed 'self-sacrifice gene' expression might not help that particular lipid-bag of deoxiribonucleic acid chains, but might be useful in ensuring the survival of closely-related lipid-bags' coded contents (inclusive of recessive versions of the self-sacrifice ability). Maybe whatever it is that's valuable in my own make-up could end up vital to cousin's cousin's kid (must be four or five years old, by now) prospects in his future. Quick (and doubtless wrong, for all their haste) calculations indicate that there's almost 5% of DNA that came down to each of us from my grandfather, say, and his great-great-grandfather (I think it is) so might be something my gene-load would value the propogation of.

(Although realistically the Y-chromosome matching is no more related than the background rate between ethnically-similar humans, given the one female link involved in the tree breaking that linkage.)


Complex behaviours from less complex 'programming'. One thing I also love about AI and the like.

One way or other I'd quite like to benefit humanity (and perhaps more specifically those that are related to me), although I don't quite know what coming back onto Nationstates after half a dozen years and messing about again on the forums is going to accomplish in this Glorious Task. It's not getting me laid (at the moment!), certainly, but genes (and memes) that I possess may indeed find themselves usefully propogated at some point. Perhaps they're all keyed up for something more post-apocalypse? Or perhaps I'm a true dead end (biologically and informatically). If that's the case then it looks like the world is getting more of other people's legacies and ultimately it's about the legacies that survive. And there have to be losers in order that there be winners, so can't complain, can I?

[Hyperion]

Undecided. Can't choose if I'm an Evolutionist or a Creationist, leaning to Evolution Screw it, since I was 6 I believed in Dwarninian Evolution. It just makes more sense to me on a personal level. You can throw at me how God is the true creator and creationism is real, but my mind accepts evolution faster and thinks it makes more sense because it relates with my other knowledge.

[Shaggai]

Undecided. Can't choose if I'm an Evolutionist or a Creationist, leaning to Evolution Screw it, since I was 6 I believed in Dwarvin Evolution. It just makes more sense to me on a personal level. You can throw at me how God is the true creator and creationism is real, but my mind accepts evolution faster and thinks it makes more sense because it relates with my other knowledge.

Dwarven Evolution? Short Norse people with axes and beards Evolution?

YES.

[Hyperion]

Undecided. Can't choose if I'm an Evolutionist or a Creationist, leaning to Evolution Screw it, since I was 6 I believed in Dwarvin Evolution. It just makes more sense to me on a personal level. You can throw at me how God is the true creator and creationism is real, but my mind accepts evolution faster and thinks it makes more sense because it relates with my other knowledge.

Dwarven Evolution? Short Norse people with axes and beards Evolution?

YES.

Oops. But yes, we evolved from Dwarfs. ALL HAIL HONEYDEW!

(look at my flag)

[Sociobiology]

Undecided. Can't choose if I'm an Evolutionist or a Creationist, leaning to Evolution Screw it, since I was 6 I believed in Dwarvin Evolution. It just makes more sense to me on a personal level. You can throw at me how God is the true creator and creationism is real, but my mind accepts evolution faster and thinks it makes more sense because it relates with my other knowledge.

Dwarven Evolution? Short Norse people with axes and beards Evolution?

YES.

I did this in college for a DM friend of mine, evolutionary relationships of D&D humanoids, based on ability to interbreed and physical characteristics.
if i remember right dwarves and gnomes come out as an outgroup to the human/elf/orc branch, and group with Homo neanderthalensis.

I Also did a huge list of fictitious animals,which was actually quite fun.

[Hyperion]

Dwarf, Elf, Dark Elf, Unicorn, Alicorn, Wizard, Pegasus, Nord, Lizard man, Batman, Spiderman, Obama...I can't think of more at the moment...

[Shaggai]

Dwarf, Elf, Dark Elf, Unicorn, Alicorn, Wizard, Pegasus, Nord, Lizard man, Batman, Spiderman, Obama...I can't think of more at the moment...

That isn't the evolutionary line. The evolutionary line goes:
Human, Obama, Nord, Dwarf, Elf, Dark Elf, Lizard man, Batman, Spiderman, Wizard, Unicorn (Pegasus diverges at this point), Alicorn, Basilisk, Wyvern, Alduin, Dovahkiin, god, Thor, God, Odin, Jormungandr, Dragon. After this there can be no evolution, as the peak of evolution has been reached.

[The GDC]

Young Earth Creationism.

Evolution has "evidence" but that was just put there by the Devil in order to shake our faith in God.

Creationism has the Bible as proof and the Bible is the word of God. We know it is the word of God because the Bible says that it is the word of God and we know that the Bible is true because it is the word of God. And we know this because it says so in the Bible and the Bible says that the Bible is true.

Checkmate atheists!

Errr, they don't believe that stuff.

[The GDC]

Dwarf, Elf, Dark Elf, Unicorn, Alicorn, Wizard, Pegasus, Nord, Lizard man, Batman, Spiderman, Obama...I can't think of more at the moment...

That isn't the evolutionary line. The evolutionary line goes:
Human, Obama, Nord, Dwarf, Elf, Dark Elf, Lizard man, Batman, Spiderman, Wizard, Unicorn (Pegasus diverges at this point), Alicorn, Basilisk, Wyvern, Alduin, Dovahkiin, god, Thor, God, Odin, Jormungandr, Dragon. After this there can be no evolution, as the peak of evolution has been reached.

You missed Chuck Norris.

[Utceforp]

Young Earth Creationism.

Evolution has "evidence" but that was just put there by the Devil in order to shake our faith in God.

Creationism has the Bible as proof and the Bible is the word of God. We know it is the word of God because the Bible says that it is the word of God and we know that the Bible is true because it is the word of God. And we know this because it says so in the Bible and the Bible says that the Bible is true.

Checkmate atheists!

[Confederation of Socialist States]

Using quantum physics which states that nothing can be proven, neither Creationism nor Evolution is provable, and neither is right or wrong!

[New Israelia]

Young Earth Creationism.

Evolution has "evidence" but that was just put there by the Devil in order to shake our faith in God.

Creationism has the Bible as proof and the Bible is the word of God. We know it is the word of God because the Bible says that it is the word of God and we know that the Bible is true because it is the word of God. And we know this because it says so in the Bible and the Bible says that the Bible is true.

Checkmate atheists!

That's right! Young Earth for the win!