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Creationism vs. Evolution

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What do you believe in?

Darwinian Evolution
477
67%
Young Earth Creationism
39
6%
Old Earth Creationism
25
4%
Intelligent Design
48
7%
Theistic Evolution
88
12%
Other
30
4%
 
Total votes : 707

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Dragonisia wrote:What is the average weight of a human baby?


What the fuck do human babies have to do with something that happened millions of years ago while the human race is barely hundreds of thousands of years old?!

Just... Please tell me, are you on drugs or something?
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

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Dragonisia
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Postby Dragonisia » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Need a name wrote:Dragonosia, what are you arguing for?


The non-linear flow of time from the big bang.
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Blasveck
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Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
I don't....
Wha...


Exactly.

Hell, if we go by some theories there are some parts of the mecahnizations of this universe we can't even see yet.. multiple dimensions out of the basic 4. Yet we assume we have all the answers now.


Are we arguing about multi-dimensions now?

How does ID fit into this again?
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Anachronous Rex
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Oh my god... you have idea what you're talking about...

You watched walking with prehistoric beasts, didn't you? And now you're an expert on earth history?

The Carboniferous was not "just after plant life arrived."

As stated previously, the extinction that killed the dinosaurs killed everything over 22 pounds. Land and sea. What magical force makes your impact different.

Also: elephants.


What is the average weight of a human baby?

Probably about 7 pounds, but I've never known a baby that can live on its own. And, of course, a baby elephant weighs 250 lb.
My humor is like church wine: dry and tasteless.
If you are not sure if I am being serious, assume that I am not.

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Dragonisia
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dragonisia » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:What is the average weight of a human baby?


What the fuck do human babies have to do with something that happened millions of years ago while the human race is barely hundreds of thousands of years old?!

Just... Please tell me, are you on drugs or something?


Someone was arguing 22 lb extinction weights during exinction events. I'm just pointing out there are human beings below that weight level.
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THENEW PACIFICORDER



Personal Motto: L'État, c'est moi
Full Country Name: Dragonisia (PT), Dragonisia (MT), The Dragonisian Collective of Individual Personas(FT)
Demonym: Dragonisian
Rulers: Emperor Maelstrom Vortex, Empress Koudoawaia Vortex
Capital: Dragonisia
Government Type: Absolute Imperial with a representative democratic legislature. (PT/MT) Collective of DIstinct Minds (FT)
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=dragonisia/detail=factbook
Tech: Willing to play at any tech range and fiction class.
Foreign Policy: Unrestricted Diplomacy
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.64
More than you.
Likely, less than you. I've been inactive for a little while. This will likely change quickly.

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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Seperates wrote:Hell, most archeology is still for the most part based on relative dating systems using similar features of objects and their layers in situ (where they were found originally). And for the most part we've found that radio-metric dating is unnessecery as it normally confirms relative dating methods (if the archaeological team was being precise with a large amount of data, smaller data pools generally were overturned just because there weren't enough objects to actually figure out the relative placement within the timeline.)


That all of those methods still rely on a unifying feature. Our perception of the progression of time as it is within our lifetime. There is the potentiality with whatever drove the origination of the universe that in the universe's expansion time flowed at different rates at different points due to the amount of energy involved.

Perhaps, but there is no logical reason to ASSUME that. The key is that yes, time is relative, Einstein proved that. However, time is only relative for objects which are moving at vastly different speeds. Assuming that the Earth was formed at approximately the same velocity, all the relative radioactive aspects of the Earth should be relative equal to each other. And if time is experienced differently, then it is likely that the entire solar system, nay, the entire Galaxy experienced the same difference in the flow of time, making the matter inconsequential, because it would affect the energy of everything equally. Basically, no matter the relative flow of time, the age of Earth is approximately 6 billion revolutions around the Sun. Perhaps it was 'faster' than our relative flow of time, but it is irrelevant to the matter at hand, because it was all experienced simultaneously.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

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Quandarm
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Posts: 2189
Founded: Apr 27, 2011
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Postby Quandarm » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:14 am

Blasveck wrote:
Quandarm wrote:There's this huge issue where a test is given and, no matter how poorly you understand the material, you're forced to move on. That's the issue that needs solved, but it's nearly impossible.


Have you seem the TED talks on education? We need it to be more personalized. We use a "factory line" system, built during the 1800s. It needs to change.

Can you imagine the COST of that? While it's important they complain about not having enough money in education now. I can't even imagine the screaming for something on this level.
Vingtor wrote:Ohhh, you could just put her in a bowl of granola and eat her with a fair trade spoon.
11/10/12: the day Ameriganastan fell.

On hats and River Song.
Ameriganistan wrote:I'd toss her out of that TADRIS thing if she shot any of my hats. Respect a mans headwear.
Rode with Shanix in the great Exile of NSG, and returned triumphant and strong again to her shores.
Former member of The Exiles.
Left after Hostile Takeover.

“A true opium for the people is a belief in nothingness after death – the huge solace of thinking that for our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders we are not going to be judged.” – Czeslaw Milosz

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With Teeth
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Posts: 2475
Founded: Jul 01, 2013
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Postby With Teeth » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:15 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Oh my god... you have idea what you're talking about...

You watched walking with prehistoric beasts, didn't you? And now you're an expert on earth history?

The Carboniferous was not "just after plant life arrived."

As stated previously, the extinction that killed the dinosaurs killed everything over 22 pounds. Land and sea. What magical force makes your impact different.

Also: elephants.


What is the average weight of a human baby?


Objection, your honor...relevance to an era of history when humans didn't even exist?
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I'm an atheist. When I defend theological arguments for fun, don't make cliche New Atheist remarks about theistic biases or trying to cover up gaps to save my "belief". You'll just look stupid.

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Dragonisia
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Posts: 422
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dragonisia » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:15 am

Seperates wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:
That all of those methods still rely on a unifying feature. Our perception of the progression of time as it is within our lifetime. There is the potentiality with whatever drove the origination of the universe that in the universe's expansion time flowed at different rates at different points due to the amount of energy involved.

Perhaps, but there is no logical reason to ASSUME that. The key is that yes, time is relative, Einstein proved that. However, time is only relative for objects which are moving at vastly different speeds. Assuming that the Earth was formed at approximately the same velocity, all the relative radioactive aspects of the Earth should be relative equal to each other. And if time is experienced differently, then it is likely that the entire solar system, nay, the entire Galaxy experienced the same difference in the flow of time, making the matter inconsequential, because it would affect the energy of everything equally. Basically, no matter the relative flow of time, the age of Earth is approximately 6 billion revolutions around the Sun. Perhaps it was 'faster' than our relative flow of time, but it is irrelevant to the matter at hand, because it was all experienced simultaneously.


There is no reason to assume the contrary either, but all of our science is based on that assumption because we simply observed it happening now. If everything in science were pretexted with the simple were "According to our perception.." then proceeds with how it is perceived to be, it would be much more accurate.
Last edited by Dragonisia on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
APROUDMEMBEROF
THENEW PACIFICORDER



Personal Motto: L'État, c'est moi
Full Country Name: Dragonisia (PT), Dragonisia (MT), The Dragonisian Collective of Individual Personas(FT)
Demonym: Dragonisian
Rulers: Emperor Maelstrom Vortex, Empress Koudoawaia Vortex
Capital: Dragonisia
Government Type: Absolute Imperial with a representative democratic legislature. (PT/MT) Collective of DIstinct Minds (FT)
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=dragonisia/detail=factbook
Tech: Willing to play at any tech range and fiction class.
Foreign Policy: Unrestricted Diplomacy
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.64
More than you.
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With Teeth
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Posts: 2475
Founded: Jul 01, 2013
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Postby With Teeth » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:16 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
What the fuck do human babies have to do with something that happened millions of years ago while the human race is barely hundreds of thousands of years old?!

Just... Please tell me, are you on drugs or something?


Someone was arguing 22 lb extinction weights during exinction events. I'm just pointing out there are human beings below that weight level.


Tell us, is water wet?
My blog
I'm an atheist. When I defend theological arguments for fun, don't make cliche New Atheist remarks about theistic biases or trying to cover up gaps to save my "belief". You'll just look stupid.

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Blasveck
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Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:16 am

Guys, he's either Alex Jones, or doing some major stuff.
No one is this insane.
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Need a Name
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Posts: 3594
Founded: Oct 22, 2012
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Postby Need a Name » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:16 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Need a name wrote:Dragonosia, what are you arguing for?


The non-linear flow of time from the big bang.

:blink:
I'm a Christian and a Patriot
“Right is Right even if nobody does it. Wrong is wrong even if everybody is wrong about it.”― G.K. Chesterton

"Better to fight for something than live for nothing." -- George S. Patton Jr.

"Do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day." -- Jesus Christ

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Against: Radical fundamentalism, Militant Atheism, Current US Congress, Ignorance, and ISIS (obviously).

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Dragonisia
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dragonisia » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:16 am

With Teeth wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:
Someone was arguing 22 lb extinction weights during exinction events. I'm just pointing out there are human beings below that weight level.


Tell us, is water wet?


According to our definitions of wet, it sure seems wet.
APROUDMEMBEROF
THENEW PACIFICORDER



Personal Motto: L'État, c'est moi
Full Country Name: Dragonisia (PT), Dragonisia (MT), The Dragonisian Collective of Individual Personas(FT)
Demonym: Dragonisian
Rulers: Emperor Maelstrom Vortex, Empress Koudoawaia Vortex
Capital: Dragonisia
Government Type: Absolute Imperial with a representative democratic legislature. (PT/MT) Collective of DIstinct Minds (FT)
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=dragonisia/detail=factbook
Tech: Willing to play at any tech range and fiction class.
Foreign Policy: Unrestricted Diplomacy
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.64
More than you.
Likely, less than you. I've been inactive for a little while. This will likely change quickly.

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Anachronous Rex
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:17 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:You think massive mounds of limestone happen overnight?


Possibly.. if you compressed time enough relative to our own perception of it, it could happen easily.

Limestone is made of living things. It is literally compressed corpses.

Now if time can "speed up" and living things live and die faster as a result of it, in what sense has time changed at all as far as they are concerned?
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If you are not sure if I am being serious, assume that I am not.

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Blasveck
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Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:17 am

Quandarm wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Have you seem the TED talks on education? We need it to be more personalized. We use a "factory line" system, built during the 1800s. It needs to change.

Can you imagine the COST of that? While it's important they complain about not having enough money in education now. I can't even imagine the screaming for something on this level.


I know it's probably going to be costly. But we've got to find something better. Or we're costing our future.
Forever a Communist

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Anachronous Rex
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:18 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
What the fuck do human babies have to do with something that happened millions of years ago while the human race is barely hundreds of thousands of years old?!

Just... Please tell me, are you on drugs or something?


Someone was arguing 22 lb extinction weights during exinction events. I'm just pointing out there are human beings below that weight level.

No human being who can take care of itself.

By that logic T-Rex should still be alive.
My humor is like church wine: dry and tasteless.
If you are not sure if I am being serious, assume that I am not.

Summer is coming...

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With Teeth
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Posts: 2475
Founded: Jul 01, 2013
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Postby With Teeth » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:18 am

Dragonisia wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
Tell us, is water wet?


According to our definitions of wet, it sure seems wet.


Genius.
My blog
I'm an atheist. When I defend theological arguments for fun, don't make cliche New Atheist remarks about theistic biases or trying to cover up gaps to save my "belief". You'll just look stupid.

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Dragonisia
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dragonisia » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:19 am

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:
Possibly.. if you compressed time enough relative to our own perception of it, it could happen easily.

Limestone is made of living things. It is literally compressed corpses.

Now if time can "speed up" and living things live and die faster as a result of it, in what sense has time changed at all as far as they are concerned?


They may not perceive the deviation until something around them is unaffected by the same exact change. Our observations are also localized to within this heliosphere and the effects of our sun, gravity has an impact on time. That's why satellites have to be corrected in earth orbit. And that is part of my point. If time has altered before we were able to perceive its alterations, then our measurements could be vastly off.. in either direction.

To claim to know, when evidence of past events is unknowable, is claiming to know the unknowable, and therefore.. illogical and hardly scientific.
Last edited by Dragonisia on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
APROUDMEMBEROF
THENEW PACIFICORDER



Personal Motto: L'État, c'est moi
Full Country Name: Dragonisia (PT), Dragonisia (MT), The Dragonisian Collective of Individual Personas(FT)
Demonym: Dragonisian
Rulers: Emperor Maelstrom Vortex, Empress Koudoawaia Vortex
Capital: Dragonisia
Government Type: Absolute Imperial with a representative democratic legislature. (PT/MT) Collective of DIstinct Minds (FT)
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=dragonisia/detail=factbook
Tech: Willing to play at any tech range and fiction class.
Foreign Policy: Unrestricted Diplomacy
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.64
More than you.
Likely, less than you. I've been inactive for a little while. This will likely change quickly.

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Blasveck
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Posts: 13877
Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:19 am

With Teeth wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:
According to our definitions of wet, it sure seems wet.


Genius.


Call the presses! We've got the next Einstein!
Forever a Communist

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Need a Name
Senator
 
Posts: 3594
Founded: Oct 22, 2012
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Postby Need a Name » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:20 am

With Teeth wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:
According to our definitions of wet, it sure seems wet.


Genius.

Is it just me or is over thinking things?
I'm a Christian and a Patriot
“Right is Right even if nobody does it. Wrong is wrong even if everybody is wrong about it.”― G.K. Chesterton

"Better to fight for something than live for nothing." -- George S. Patton Jr.

"Do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day." -- Jesus Christ

For: Christianity, America, NATO, EU, Israel, Effective Education Reform, The US Military, Social Capital, and Compromise
Against: Radical fundamentalism, Militant Atheism, Current US Congress, Ignorance, and ISIS (obviously).

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Blasveck
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Posts: 13877
Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:20 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Limestone is made of living things. It is literally compressed corpses.

Now if time can "speed up" and living things live and die faster as a result of it, in what sense has time changed at all as far as they are concerned?


They may not perceive the deviation until something around them is unaffected by the same exact change. Our observations are also localized to within this heliosphere and the effects of our sun, gravity has an impact on time. That's why satellites have to be corrected in earth orbit. And that is part of my point. If time has altered before we were able to perceive its alterations, then our measurements could be vastly off.. in either direction.


So, to summarize, you believe that a meteor caused the flood because our perceptions of time are relative?

Shoot me
Forever a Communist

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Quandarm
Minister
 
Posts: 2189
Founded: Apr 27, 2011
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Postby Quandarm » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:21 am

Blasveck wrote:I know it's probably going to be costly. But we've got to find something better. Or we're costing our future.

The issue is that our current system is so backwards and broken that I'm not sure I want the current heads of these systems running a new, more expensive version.
Vingtor wrote:Ohhh, you could just put her in a bowl of granola and eat her with a fair trade spoon.
11/10/12: the day Ameriganastan fell.

On hats and River Song.
Ameriganistan wrote:I'd toss her out of that TADRIS thing if she shot any of my hats. Respect a mans headwear.
Rode with Shanix in the great Exile of NSG, and returned triumphant and strong again to her shores.
Former member of The Exiles.
Left after Hostile Takeover.

“A true opium for the people is a belief in nothingness after death – the huge solace of thinking that for our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders we are not going to be judged.” – Czeslaw Milosz

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Blasveck
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Posts: 13877
Founded: Dec 21, 2010
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Postby Blasveck » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:21 am

Need a name wrote:
With Teeth wrote:
Genius.

Is it just me or is over thinking things?


Over thinking is an understatement
Forever a Communist

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Need a Name
Senator
 
Posts: 3594
Founded: Oct 22, 2012
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Postby Need a Name » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:22 am

Blasveck wrote:
Need a name wrote:Is it just me or is over thinking things?


Over thinking is an understatement

Is there a better word?
I'm a Christian and a Patriot
“Right is Right even if nobody does it. Wrong is wrong even if everybody is wrong about it.”― G.K. Chesterton

"Better to fight for something than live for nothing." -- George S. Patton Jr.

"Do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day." -- Jesus Christ

For: Christianity, America, NATO, EU, Israel, Effective Education Reform, The US Military, Social Capital, and Compromise
Against: Radical fundamentalism, Militant Atheism, Current US Congress, Ignorance, and ISIS (obviously).

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Anachronous Rex
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6312
Founded: Mar 14, 2013
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:22 am

Dragonisia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Limestone is made of living things. It is literally compressed corpses.

Now if time can "speed up" and living things live and die faster as a result of it, in what sense has time changed at all as far as they are concerned?


They may not perceive the deviation until something around them is unaffected by the same exact change. Our observations are also localized to within this heliosphere and the effects of our sun, gravity has an impact on time. That's why satellites have to be corrected in earth orbit. And that is part of my point. If time has altered before we were able to perceive its alterations, then our measurements could be vastly off.. in either direction.

To claim to know, when evidence of past events is unknowable, is claiming to know the unknowable, and therefore.. illogical.

You see, what you've done. Is pointed to something that Scientists know very well, and have accounted for, and presented it as though it were baffling to them.

And added pointless jargon.

And for the record, no human being has ever "perceived the deviation." Our instruments have.
My humor is like church wine: dry and tasteless.
If you are not sure if I am being serious, assume that I am not.

Summer is coming...

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