Edward Snowden Discussion Thread

[Gauthier]

Illegals cannot register to vote.

Nonsense, what would a person living in constant fear of deportation rather do than unnecessarily draw the government's attention to them in registering to vote and commit a crime by falsely affirming they're a citizen? They do it all the time, it's like tempting fate, it's a fun little game to them. Besides, they illegals are really passionate about making sure all the socialist benefits the Democratic Party gives to American citizens and not to them remain in place. All 10 of them who voted in Arizona last election cycle and thus completely changed the outcome of the election. Everyone knows that.

I forgot citizenship fraud was an epidemic in the United States.

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Every time someone says "Snowden is clearly a traitor otherwise he wouldn't go to unfree countries like Russia and China" I am possessed by an irresistible urge to roll my eyes and perform a wanker hand gesture at them, accompanied by a complete "flicking" motion.

Or you missed the irony of someone professing to stand up for transparency and privacy fleeing to countries with a serious deficit of both for refuge.

He went to Hong Kong presumably to meet his Guardian contact and because he felt he had a good chance of not being extradited, and then went through Moscow because that was what was deemed a safe connection to a country where he'll be permanently safe from extradition. What exactly is irrational about him looking out for his basic self-interest.

It's like saying I must have some sort of loyalty to the city of Atlanta because most of my flights are rerouted there.

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Nonsense, what would a person living in constant fear of deportation rather do than unnecessarily draw the government's attention to them in registering to vote and commit a crime by falsely affirming they're a citizen? They do it all the time, it's like tempting fate, it's a fun little game to them. Besides, they illegals are really passionate about making sure all the socialist benefits the Democratic Party gives to American citizens and not to them remain in place. All 10 of them who voted in Arizona last election cycle and thus completely changed the outcome of the election. Everyone knows that.

I forgot citizenship fraud was an epidemic in the United States.

That one was sarcasm just in case you didn't catch it.

[Welsh Cowboy]

Or you missed the irony of someone professing to stand up for transparency and privacy fleeing to countries with a serious deficit of both for refuge.

He went to Hong Kong presumably to meet his Guardian contact and because he felt he had a good chance of not being extradited, and then went through Moscow because that was what was deemed a safe connection to a country where he'll be permanently safe from extradition. What exactly is irrational about him looking out for his basic self-interest.

It's like saying I must have some sort of loyalty to the city of Atlanta because most of my flights are rerouted there.

If he's looking out purely for his self-interest, that reduces my opinion of him even more. He's purported to be some sort of righteous whistleblower, standing up to the police state that is America. If he's doing it just because it's morally right, he should come back and stand trial.

[Gauthier]

Or you missed the irony of someone professing to stand up for transparency and privacy fleeing to countries with a serious deficit of both for refuge.

He went to Hong Kong presumably to meet his Guardian contact and because he felt he had a good chance of not being extradited, and then went through Moscow because that was what was deemed a safe connection to a country where he'll be permanently safe from extradition. What exactly is irrational about him looking out for his basic self-interest.

It's like saying I must have some sort of loyalty to the city of Atlanta because most of my flights are rerouted there.

And we're certain they have standards of civility greater than the temptation of juicing him for as much information as they can get.

[Voldoviana]

The definition of treason is "aiding and abetting the enemy in a time of war."

So what enemy did Snowden exactly help?

[Page]

He went to Hong Kong presumably to meet his Guardian contact and because he felt he had a good chance of not being extradited, and then went through Moscow because that was what was deemed a safe connection to a country where he'll be permanently safe from extradition. What exactly is irrational about him looking out for his basic self-interest.

It's like saying I must have some sort of loyalty to the city of Atlanta because most of my flights are rerouted there.

And we're certain they have standards of civility greater than the temptation of juicing him for as much information as they can get.

You think all of the dissidents from China and Russia to our borders have been welcomed completely altruistically? That our government agents don't siphon from them all the knowledge they're worth?

[Gauthier]

And we're certain they have standards of civility greater than the temptation of juicing him for as much information as they can get.

You think all of the dissidents from China and Russia to our borders have been welcomed completely altruistically? That our government agents don't siphon from them all the knowledge they're worth?

I didn't know the Chinese and Russian dissidents had access to classified intelligence documents.

[Bombadil]

I'm surprised no one on the flight from HK to Moscow remembers seeing him, I'd not be surprised if he was blackbagged in HK airport, put on a flight to Guam and is on a military transport back to America.

I imagine he's actually on a flight to South America but there's a huge amount of unanswered questions around this, the story is becoming more fascinating than any orginal intentions.

I fear that's his error now, he's a far greater story than anything he whistled.

[Page]

You think all of the dissidents from China and Russia to our borders have been welcomed completely altruistically? That our government agents don't siphon from them all the knowledge they're worth?

I didn't know the Chinese and Russian dissidents had access to classified intelligence documents.

Some might. I'm just considering the fact that those countries' media portray those dissidents quite like American reporters are portraying Snowden now.

When David Gregory suggests Glenn Greenwald ought to be charged with a crime for reporting the information given to him, after an astounding display of hypocrisy in the wake of the AP scandal, I really have to firmly question what differentiates the mainstream media in America, be they liberals or conservatives, from the state media shills in our rival countries.

[Page]

I'm surprised no one on the flight from HK to Moscow remembers seeing him, I'd not be surprised if he was blackbagged in HK airport, put on a flight to Guam and is on a military transport back to America.

I imagine he's actually on a flight to South America but there's a huge amount of unanswered questions around this, the story is becoming more fascinating than any orginal intentions.

I fear that's his error now, he's a far greater story than anything he whistled.

Not his error. Presumably, Snowden's only intent is to get to Ecaudor or whatever safe haven he may find.

Now is the embarrassed and exposed US government reveling in the media burying the scandal under a "where's Snowden" game? I'm sure of it.

[Bombadil]

I'm surprised no one on the flight from HK to Moscow remembers seeing him, I'd not be surprised if he was blackbagged in HK airport, put on a flight to Guam and is on a military transport back to America.

I imagine he's actually on a flight to South America but there's a huge amount of unanswered questions around this, the story is becoming more fascinating than any orginal intentions.

I fear that's his error now, he's a far greater story than anything he whistled.

Not his error. Presumably, Snowden's only intent is to get to Ecaudor or whatever safe haven he may find.

Now is the embarrassed and exposed US government reveling in the media burying the scandal under a "where's Snowden" game? I'm sure of it.

One of the funnier aspects is the media scrum realising that not only was Snowden not on the flight from Moscow but that no alcohol was served on the entire flight either.. I imagine they're feeling like right chumps.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

[Page]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

Same.

[Haktiva]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

dido

[The Grey Wolf]

He did the right thing, but he still broke the law. Like Ifreann said, Patriator.

[The Grey Wolf]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

dido

Same here.

[Freiheit Reich]

I admit banning all people from terrorist nations is unfair to the 10% of good people in those nations. However, they brought the actions upon themselves for supporting bad leaders and not supporting religious freedoms. It is fair in many ways though. Arab nations ban Israel citizens from traveling to their nations due to their hatred of Jews. They deserve to get a taste of their own discriminatory medicine.

The policy could be changed when these countries become civilized and show religious tolerance and low levels of violence and accept Israel citizens for travel (haha-maybe when pigs fly it will happen).

Sadly, it is no secret that US border control is weak. Sadly it is left weak for political reasons. Advocating strict border controls is seen as racist towards Hispanics which means loss of potential votes.

And a certain party who's name begins with a D has no incentive to strengthen security as most illegals vote for them.

Both parties are guilty. Reagan gave amnesty. The big issue that is ignored is the fact a terrorist could get a tourist visa to visit Mexico fairly easily and then do all the planning in Mexico and then slip into the USA. The govt. wants to spy on citizens to stop terrorism but they aren't as worried about foreign terrorists entering the USA via a backdoor (Mexico or Canada). The backdoor approach means the govt. would not even know the person is here meaning no background checks. Not only harmless Mexican farmers can sneak across the border (something liberal activists forget).

BTW: I think you mean that illegals represent 'future votes' once they get citizenship (having a baby on US soil or marriage to a citizen are the fast ways to get citizenship).

[Freiheit Reich]

He went to Hong Kong presumably to meet his Guardian contact and because he felt he had a good chance of not being extradited, and then went through Moscow because that was what was deemed a safe connection to a country where he'll be permanently safe from extradition. What exactly is irrational about him looking out for his basic self-interest.

It's like saying I must have some sort of loyalty to the city of Atlanta because most of my flights are rerouted there.

If he's looking out purely for his self-interest, that reduces my opinion of him even more. He's purported to be some sort of righteous whistleblower, standing up to the police state that is America. If he's doing it just because it's morally right, he should come back and stand trial.

He might come back when we get a government that truly respects the US Constitution and stands up for freedom. The current administration is corrupt and will not give a fair trial. Perhaps he would come back if a Libertarian is elected as US president. Hopefully we can find this out in 2016 (I am not holding my breath though).

The US has more people in prisons than any other nation and the rate is much higher as well. We are not a free country despite what propaganda says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ation_rate

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/u ... 2page1.stm

[Welsh Cowboy]

If he's looking out purely for his self-interest, that reduces my opinion of him even more. He's purported to be some sort of righteous whistleblower, standing up to the police state that is America. If he's doing it just because it's morally right, he should come back and stand trial.

He might come back when we get a government that truly respects the US Constitution and stands up for freedom. The current administration is corrupt and will not give a fair trial. Perhaps he would come back if a Libertarian is elected as US president. Hopefully we can find this out in 2016 (I am not holding my breath though).

The US has more people in prisons than any other nation and the rate is much higher as well. We are not a free country despite what propaganda says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ation_rate

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/u ... 2page1.stm

Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't buy this whole "America isn't a free country" thing. Do we have problems? Absolutely. But the fact that on MSNBC people can talk about racist, ebul Republicans and on Fox News, people can decry Marxist, Kenyan Obama demonstrates that America has a great amount of freedoms and liberty. They are under attack, as they always have been. The forces against liberty are often domestic. But they certainly haven't turned America into some authoritarian, dictatorial state.

I think he would get a fair trial. Why? Because an awful lot of even mainstream political figures have praised him. Plus, I think that the charges would be so simple to prove that the government would be stupid to try to frame him. He gave out classified information without permission. He's admitted to it. How much simpler of a case could you get?

[The Steel Magnolia]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

I try not to root for criminals who give state secrets to china myself.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

I try not to root for criminals who give state secrets to china myself.

I try not to assume people are guilty of something based on (now rather weak) circumstantial evidence.

[Maurepas]

Really rootin' for Snowden right now.

I try not to root for criminals who give state secrets to china myself.

When those "secrets" are our government spying on us, then I don't particularly care. He's the good guy whether he's a criminal or not.

[Maurepas]

The definition of treason is "aiding and abetting the enemy in a time of war."

So what enemy did Snowden exactly help?

Anybody the US Government suspects of Terrorism. That's ultimately the problem here, the grounds for being labeled as such in our fear-induced decision making capacity post-9/11 have become ridiculous, and our government's methods of pursuing someone it considers a terrorist have gotten way out of hand.

[Xanixi]

he has opened a window on something we need to be discussing a lot more then himself as a person nor his ware abouts.

it is not even just about "privacy". which lets get real, privacy, as long as we want to live in a communictions fish bowl is a myth anyway.

but rather shame on any nation, that would put its security as a nation, ahead of that of its citizens. whether that nation be syria, afghanistan, or the u.s. of america.

Last I checked, security of a nation gives security to the citizens, seeing as so long as the nation itself is unharmed, innocent citizens within that nation are also unharmed.