Edward Snowden Discussion Thread

[Maurepas]

http://news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contra ... 43121.html

Linky if needed. He's also considering Moscow or Cuba.

Linky: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world ... ay.html?hp

I can't help but think it's our just reward for the Banana Wars that Ecuador protects WikiLeaks against us.

[Gravlen]

Linky: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world ... ay.html?hp

I can't help but think it's our just reward for the Banana Wars that Ecuador protects WikiLeaks against us.

Don't confuse Assange or Snowden with Wikileaks. And don't confuse Assange's refuge from rape accusations with Snowden either, nor any "protection from the US".

[Maurepas]

I can't help but think it's our just reward for the Banana Wars that Ecuador protects WikiLeaks against us.

Don't confuse Assange or Snowden with Wikileaks. And don't confuse Assange's refuge from rape accusations with Snowden either, nor any "protection from the US".

They're different circumstances, but according to the article Farn linked, WikiLeaks and Ecuador are helping him. And I just find some irony(or at least humor) in that they're protecting people who meddle in US affairs when we spent(and spend) so much time meddling in their affairs.

[Freiheit Reich]

Even though there's almost no chance of him being acquitted?

That is not the point of him getting off from his charges.

He has a moral duty to the laws of this land that he was born in to follow them even if he broke the law to let out the truth.

If he is a truly moral and ethical person (From what I have seen and heard...that is doubtful) he would come home and stand trial.

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

[New Chalcedon]

That is not the point of him getting off from his charges.

He has a moral duty to the laws of this land that he was born in to follow them even if he broke the law to let out the truth.

If he is a truly moral and ethical person (From what I have seen and heard...that is doubtful) he would come home and stand trial.

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

.....I can't believe we're on the same side - this has to be a first.

[Coltarin]

That is not the point of him getting off from his charges.

He has a moral duty to the laws of this land that he was born in to follow them even if he broke the law to let out the truth.

If he is a truly moral and ethical person (From what I have seen and heard...that is doubtful) he would come home and stand trial.

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

You sir forget that that US citizen was sitting in a Yemeni terrorist camp learning to make bombs. The blatant truth is that Snowden is a fool with no technical training who didn't even understand his own program. The fact that he ran to a Chinese proxy state was bad enough, now that he's in Moscow? The man signed a death warrant. He has something coming to him for thinking that he could bullshit a press release and try to screw Uncle Sam. Hope he gets his just deserts down the flight line of a Reaper drone.

[Page]

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

.....I can't believe we're on the same side - this has to be a first.

In the past few weeks I've experienced this type of political shock many times, with people I know and media figures. I'm beginning to think I have placed too much emphasis on left-right politics, when a more useful binary may in fact be people interested in liberty vs. authoritarian state cheerleaders.

[Mkuki]

That is not the point of him getting off from his charges.

He has a moral duty to the laws of this land that he was born in to follow them even if he broke the law to let out the truth.

If he is a truly moral and ethical person (From what I have seen and heard...that is doubtful) he would come home and stand trial.

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

Actually, the President has killed four Americans with drones. Three of which were unintentional.

[AiliailiA]

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

Actually, the President has killed four Americans with drones. Three of which were unintentional.

Even I am not too bothered about that. It should be more widely known I guess.

Got a source?

[Mkuki]

Actually, the President has killed four Americans with drones. Three of which were unintentional.

Even I am not too bothered about that. It should be more widely known I guess.

Got a source?

Yeah. I edited the post to include it.

[Seperates]

The largest issue, in my mind, is not that he gave out information, that he breached a contract of trust. If he is allowed to get away with that, it could have serious ramifications for the corporate and government sectors.

Though, personally I think he was in the right to do so, especially with the upcoming G8 at the time. There is a serious lack of oversight within the intelligence community.

[West Faristan]

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

You sir forget that that US citizen was sitting in a Yemeni terrorist camp learning to make bombs. The blatant truth is that Snowden is a fool with no technical training who didn't even understand his own program. The fact that he ran to a Chinese proxy state was bad enough, now that he's in Moscow? The man signed a death warrant. He has something coming to him for thinking that he could bullshit a press release and try to screw Uncle Sam. Hope he gets his just deserts down the flight line of a Reaper drone.

So you support terrorism then? Nice.

[West Faristan]

1

[Bombadil]

..given it entails dilution of power, yes.

If more people had the power to kill, that would be a good thing? If more people could kill others, in greater numbers, easier, that would be a good thing because it would dilute the power of others who could kill?

Meh.. (as I can't be bothered to deal with such false extrapolation)

Regardless of position on his original intent, I think fleeing to Moscow was not a good move.

Since I'm not in the US and can't judge the atmosphere, would the government feel free to treat him as they feel like - I suspect in fleeing to Moscow he's lost a lot of goodwill.

[Gravlen]

The US Govt. would send him to jail for many years. People in the US have gotten sent to jail for several years for such crimes as stealing a slice of pizza. We have become a totalitarian nation. Should political refugees from North Korea go back to get 'fair trials' as well? Are they cowards for fleeing their country so they can have free speech elsewhere? I suppose you trust all government leaders, including our dear leader Obama.

Remember, Obama's govt. executed an American citizen without a fair trial using a drone. Blindly trusting the US govt. is insane. He will not get a fair trial in this country.

What is ironic is that Bush and Cheney are war criminals that are given freedom and a nice pension by US taxpayers but Snowden would be sent to prison for many years. How are Bush/Cheney more innocent than Snowden?

.....I can't believe we're on the same side - this has to be a first.

I'm sad to say that I don't think it is.

[Hornesia]

He did the right thing and will be punished for it if Obama stops being Putin's plaything.

[Aplysiomorphia]

Does the United States have no Good Samaritan laws protecting people who expose illegal activity? Is it no different whether that illegal activity is being done by the government or a private entity?

It was completely legal what the government did. The Government broke no laws given that that they did was passed in public legislation. Snowden is just a dumbass who lost his job by leaking "secrets" that everyone knew of.

[Greed and Death]

He did the right thing and will be punished for it if Obama stops being Putin's plaything.

No good deed goes unpunished.

[Hornesia]

Does the United States have no Good Samaritan laws protecting people who expose illegal activity? Is it no different whether that illegal activity is being done by the government or a private entity?

It was completely legal what the government did. The Government broke no laws given that that they did was passed in public legislation. Snowden is just a dumbass who lost his job by leaking "secrets" that everyone knew of.

Then why did they do this in secret courts and not inform the public? Doesn't matter if it was legal as it was unconstitutional.

[Greed and Death]

The problem with Ecuador is you send in bounty hunters there to drag him out.

[Welsh Cowboy]

It was completely legal what the government did. The Government broke no laws given that that they did was passed in public legislation. Snowden is just a dumbass who lost his job by leaking "secrets" that everyone knew of.

Then why did they do this in secret courts and not inform the public? Doesn't matter if it was legal as it was unconstitutional.

The phone records probe probably wasn't. The Supreme Court has ruled previously that the 4th Amendment does not protect the fact of communication.

[Mkuki]

It was completely legal what the government did. The Government broke no laws given that that they did was passed in public legislation. Snowden is just a dumbass who lost his job by leaking "secrets" that everyone knew of.

Then why did they do this in secret courts and not inform the public? Doesn't matter if it was legal as it was unconstitutional.

It's only unconstitutional if SCOTUS says so or if it's explicitly stated in the Constitution.

[Greed and Death]

It was completely legal what the government did. The Government broke no laws given that that they did was passed in public legislation. Snowden is just a dumbass who lost his job by leaking "secrets" that everyone knew of.

Then why did they do this in secret courts and not inform the public? Doesn't matter if it was legal as it was unconstitutional.

Something about if you made public the warrant request it would defeat the purpose of making the warrant request in the first place.

[Freiheit Reich]

.....I can't believe we're on the same side - this has to be a first.

In the past few weeks I've experienced this type of political shock many times, with people I know and media figures. I'm beginning to think I have placed too much emphasis on left-right politics, when a more useful binary may in fact be people interested in liberty vs. authoritarian state cheerleaders.

My views shouldn't be surprising. I am often supportive of small government policies. Yes, left-right politics has caused a lot of damage to the nation. Bush and Obama have a lot in common despite the fact one is democrat and one is republican. Both have increased the national debt and both have weakened civil liberties (despite Obama criticizing Bush for both actions). Many mainstream politicians are hypocrites and don't truly care about helping America as a whole.

You will be shocked but I voted for Obama in 2008. I regret this vote, I was another blind sheep that believed Obama's words. He criticized Bush for foolish spending and weakening civil liberties and promised good change. Would I vote for McCain if I could go back in time? No-his choice of Palin showed poor judgment. I would have picked 3rd party. Obama pushed me out of the democrat party-when he resigned the Patriot Act. He has been a huge disappointment. He made me see that the libertarian party is the only solution for Amerika. I hope more Americans recognize Obama as a liar and hypocrite. Transparent government my smelly foot!

[Cameroi]

he has opened a window on something we need to be discussing a lot more then himself as a person nor his ware abouts.

it is not even just about "privacy". which lets get real, privacy, as long as we want to live in a communictions fish bowl is a myth anyway.

but rather shame on any nation, that would put its security as a nation, ahead of that of its citizens. whether that nation be syria, afghanistan, or the u.s. of america.