Edward Snowden Discussion Thread

[Tlik]

What a fucking coward!

He won't face trial like a man and plea his case

Unsurprised really

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

Ah, but if you had valiantly fought to provide details of a vast hacking conspiracy in the interests of the global public for whom you had valiantly been fighting, would you not valiantly fight to go to prison for your valiant crimes? Or something similarly patriotic like that.

[Wamitoria]

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

There's no way in fucking hell Snowden would get a fair trial in the US.

And I say that as someone who believes that the US court system is one of the best in the world.

[The Parkus Empire]

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

If you actually believed that your government is ruthlessly corrupt, then wanting to stand trial would bring your mental faculties into question.

[Vazdania]

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

There's no way in fucking hell Snowden would get a fair trial in the US.

And I say that as someone who believes that the US court system is one of the best in the world.

well of course, the media got to it in a heartbeat, nearly everyone knows about it and has formulated an opinion.

[Napkiraly]

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

Moral high ground? He kinda already did that by leaking this (albeit we already knew about it, but still good to see it back in the spotlight) and how does fleeing prove that he is a criminal?

[Czechanada]

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

As a criminologist, I can say that the laws of state do not necessarily reflect morality.

[The Parkus Empire]

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

Moral high ground? He kinda already did that by leaking this (albeit we already knew about it, but still good to see it back in the spotlight) and how does fleeing make prove that he is a criminal?

Evading arrest is a charge of itself, I think. Fleeing states or out of the country is federal.

[Orcoa]

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

There's no way in fucking hell Snowden would get a fair trial in the US.

And I say that as someone who believes that the US court system is one of the best in the world.

So we should let a man who broke the law get away with his criminal actions?

[Mkuki]

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

Moral high ground? He kinda already did that by leaking this (albeit we already knew about it, but still good to see it back in the spotlight) and how does fleeing prove that he is a criminal?

It's certainly an incriminating action.

[The Parkus Empire]

There's no way in fucking hell Snowden would get a fair trial in the US.

And I say that as someone who believes that the US court system is one of the best in the world.

So we should let a man who broke the law get away with his criminal actions?

Depends on the law/actions.

[Wamitoria]

There's no way in fucking hell Snowden would get a fair trial in the US.

And I say that as someone who believes that the US court system is one of the best in the world.

So we should let a man who broke the law get away with his criminal actions?

If revealing that our intelligence services only have to get approval from a rubber-stamp court to record everything about a person's life is a crime, then yes.

He should get away with it.

[Orcoa]

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!

As a criminologist, I can say that the laws of state do not necessarily reflect morality.

Well if he views himself as a highly moral person, then he should go home and stand trial to plea his case in front of the courts.

But he won't do that, he will do what that Assange did...which from what it seems, its not far from what is going on.

[Napkiraly]

Moral high ground? He kinda already did that by leaking this (albeit we already knew about it, but still good to see it back in the spotlight) and how does fleeing make prove that he is a criminal?

Evading arrest is a charge of itself, I think. Fleeing states or out of the country is federal.

Well yes. But he was referring to the espionage charges. Although, I think for someone opposed to Snowden fleeing would aught to use "traitor" since what he did, iirc, is illegal.

[Orcoa]

So we should let a man who broke the law get away with his criminal actions?

If revealing that our intelligence services only have to get approval from a rubber-stamp court to record everything about a person's life is a crime, then yes.

He should get away with it.

So you have have no understanding or concept of the rule of law in the USA?

Not surprised really.

[Orcoa]

So we should let a man who broke the law get away with his criminal actions?

Depends on the law/actions.

That is not how the Law works

[Frisivisia]

Seems like a creepy motherfucker.

*End of discussion

[Czechanada]

As a criminologist, I can say that the laws of state do not necessarily reflect morality.

Well if he views himself as a highly moral person, then he should go home and stand trial to plea his case in front of the courts.

But he won't do that, he will do what that Assange did...which from what it seems, its not far from what is going on.

Except that the only purpose of trial is to figure out whether he is responsible for his actions and what sentence he should get. One's morality shouldn't dictated by the stated unless it directly harms others.

[Napkiraly]

Moral high ground? He kinda already did that by leaking this (albeit we already knew about it, but still good to see it back in the spotlight) and how does fleeing prove that he is a criminal?

It's certainly an incriminating action.

If you were in his position, would you want to stick around?

[Wamitoria]

As a criminologist, I can say that the laws of state do not necessarily reflect morality.

Well if he views himself as a highly moral person, then he should go home and stand trial to plea his case in front of the courts.

But he won't do that, he will do what that Assange did...which from what it seems, its not far from what is going on.

I don't really like the comparison. Snowden consistently keeps trying to put the focus on the information he leaked, rather than on himself. That's basically the opposite of Assange.

And as I said before, there is no way in fucking hell he would get a fair trial in the US.

[Mkuki]

It's certainly an incriminating action.

If you were in his position, would you want to stick around?

No. I'm just saying that running away makes you look guilty.

[Wamitoria]

If revealing that our intelligence services only have to get approval from a rubber-stamp court to record everything about a person's life is a crime, then yes.

He should get away with it.

So you have have no understanding or concept of the rule of law in the USA?

No, I do.

When it was revealed that the FISA court in charge of overseeing the NSA surveillance program hadn't denied a SINGLE request by the NSA to subpoena the phone and internet records of individuals, I realized that the rule of law was not being followed by that particular government institution.

There is nothing more un-American than a rubber-stamp court.

[The Parkus Empire]

Depends on the law/actions.

That is not how the Law works

No it's how ethics work.

[The Parkus Empire]

If you were in his position, would you want to stick around?

No. I'm just saying that running away makes you look guilty.

I don't think he's denying that he did what he did...

[New Chalcedon]

And how is the NSA free of the revolving door business? Is there a prohibition on NSA agents maintaining personal contacts with businesspeople? Are NSA agents prohibited from working in the private sector after their employment ends? Somehow, I doubt it.

No, but the intelligence community is a tight knit community, and revolving doors tend to be between agencies or within divisions of an agency, as opposed to between the corporate sector and the public sector (largely because the skills of the intelligence community and indeed confined to the intelligence community).

EDIT: Since you're probably going to wonder where I get my sources from, this comes from the mouth of several professors I've had, including one who worked at the CIA for over two and a half decades.

With all respect to your source, I must remind you that the nature of the interrelationship between the US government and favoured corporations has grown far more intertwined in recent years. While your professor may have been right for the time he worked at the CIA, things change - and many aspects of governance have changed.

Also, trying to claim that there are no pecunious agents in the US intelligence apparatus is just a bit silly, given that Aldrich Ames escaped investigation for years while accepting millions in Soviet bribes. If one agent is willing to accept money from America's sworn ideological foe, what's to say that another won't accept "considerations" from an American company to generate more business overseas? After all, it doesn't hurt America a bit....

I'm not arguing that there are no agents in the US Intelligence Community willing to deal in information, but I'm instead arguing that it's hardly something that we should be panicing about, given both the internal and legal mechanisms to deal with said agents.

And so Australian companies should just wait and continue to be at a competitive disadvantage while we wait for the NSA to clean house?

No.

I'm not saying that this is definitely happening - I'm saying that it could easily be happening, given the nature of human corruption and the extent of data the PRISM program is gathering. I remember Operation Condor from the 1970s and 1980s, and I am highly-wary of US intelligence services operating "off the books", as PRISM is.

PRISM is not "off the books". It's classified. There's a very important difference.

So classified that the Senate Homeland Security Committee was kept in the dark about key aspects of PRISM. That's "classified" all right.

As a side note - I find it particularly hilarious that the judge who signed the secret orders allowing the massive data hauls was none other than Judge Robert Vinson, who is on record describing Obamacare as a massive governmental overreach. Oh, the irony....

[Mkuki]

No. I'm just saying that running away makes you look guilty.

I don't think he's denying that he did what he did...

I agree. He's admitted, for the most part, that he is guilty of breaking the Law.