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Edward Snowden Discussion Thread

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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:55 am

New Chalcedon wrote:Consider the (hypothetical) case of an Australian public-works contract about to be awarded: typically done on a low-viable-bid basis, with competitors putting in sealed bids. Because most company managers are happy enough to chat about such things over their "secure" emails, the NSA knows what the "low bid" for each of the Australian firms is as of the day before the bidding process is closed - an impecunious NSA officer approaches a contact of his in an American company which already does some work in Australia, and "lets slip" the amount of the current low bid in exchange for a consideration.

Et voila, the Australian subsidiary of that American company puts in a slightly lower bid, and gets the work - not because they bid honestly and well, but because they had access to information their Australian competitors didn't have. The now extremely pecunious NSA officer decides to keep an eye out for similar information to repeat the process, and everyone's happy except the Australian firm that got left out in the cold because of the corruption.

It took me less than a minute to envision such a scenario - I'm sure that it, and possibly worse, is happening on a routine basis given the government/corporate revolving door that is the US bureaucracy. And unless something's done, the only viable solution will be to simply ban US companies from operating in Australia altogether.

That's an absolutely absurd scenario, given the NSA's large independence and separation from the revolving door (as well as the Intelligence Community's insulation in general) not to mention the disciplinary and/or legal consequences such an employee would face.
Last edited by Caninope on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:55 am

New Chalcedon wrote:
Imperial--japan wrote:So when is Snowden going to die of mysterious and unfortunate circumstances?


The moment that the common herd has been distracted enough by the latest round of what the Kardashians are doing this week that the US Government can get away with having him whacked. And probably his family, too, if it's a deterrent they're looking for.

Wut?

Really?

Are you pulling the Sheeple shit and the ebul government crap?

And here I thought you were better then that.
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:56 am

Vazdania wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:It seems that the U.S has charged Snowden with crimes and is asking Hong Kong to arrest him

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html


I think this is pretty bad, and proves the U.S corruption we have.

I think he should be a free man. We must act if he is brought back into the United States as an arrested man, or if they attack him. Freedom for Snowden!!!

You mean the guy who just hurt American foreign relations with our own allies? Yeah, no.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:57 am

Caninope wrote:
New Chalcedon wrote:Consider the (hypothetical) case of an Australian public-works contract about to be awarded: typically done on a low-viable-bid basis, with competitors putting in sealed bids. Because most company managers are happy enough to chat about such things over their "secure" emails, the NSA knows what the "low bid" for each of the Australian firms is as of the day before the bidding process is closed - an impecunious NSA officer approaches a contact of his in an American company which already does some work in Australia, and "lets slip" the amount of the current low bid in exchange for a consideration.

Et voila, the Australian subsidiary of that American company puts in a slightly lower bid, and gets the work - not because they bid honestly and well, but because they had access to information their Australian competitors didn't have. The now extremely pecunious NSA officer decides to keep an eye out for similar information to repeat the process, and everyone's happy except the Australian firm that got left out in the cold because of the corruption.

It took me less than a minute to envision such a scenario - I'm sure that it, and possibly worse, is happening on a routine basis given the government/corporate revolving door that is the US bureaucracy. And unless something's done, the only viable solution will be to simply ban US companies from operating in Australia altogether.

That's an absolutely absurd scenario, given the NSA's large independence and separation from the revolving door (as well as the Intelligence Community's insulation in general) not to mention the disciplinary and/or legal consequences such an employee would face.

Shhh!

Do not speak of the truth here!

We have to enlighten the sheeple that Snowden has tried to awaken with shit that most people already knew!

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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:57 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Like full on protesting at each state capitol and the US capitol.

Oh, PFC Manning shit.

sure. I mean what else is there to do???

I think they should have done the same thing with Julian Assange
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Postby Imperial--japan » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:57 am

New Chalcedon wrote:
Imperial--japan wrote:So when is Snowden going to die of mysterious and unfortunate circumstances?


The moment that the common herd has been distracted enough by the latest round of what the Kardashians are doing this week that the US Government can get away with having him whacked. And probably his family, too, if it's a deterrent they're looking for.

Now if there is going to be a multitude of Snowden threads there should be at least one predicting HOW he's going to be whacked.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:57 am

Vazdania wrote:
TaQud wrote:How many Snowden threads will there be before they are all merged into a giant megathread? :unsure:

anyway, my guess is that he leaves moscow and hides somewhere in Iceland

He should stay in Iceland.


He could live in the freezer section under the £1 pizzas.
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:58 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Vazdania wrote:He should stay in Iceland.


He could live in the freezer section under the £1 pizzas.

Eww no

I don't like shit in my frozen foods please
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:58 am

Caninope wrote:
Vazdania wrote:I think he should be a free man. We must act if he is brought back into the United States as an arrested man, or if they attack him. Freedom for Snowden!!!

You mean the guy who just hurt American foreign relations with our own allies? Yeah, no.

If America is doing something wrong, then let it be known throughout the world.

This man is a hero, not a villain.
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Postby Vetalia » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:00 am

New Chalcedon wrote:The moment that the common herd has been distracted enough by the latest round of what the Kardashians are doing this week that the US Government can get away with having him whacked. And probably his family, too, if it's a deterrent they're looking for.


That might be tough, they tried it with Syria and that didn't work...usually a war is a top-notch way to distract people, so I guess they'll have to fall back on Plan B.
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Mistelemr
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Postby Mistelemr » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:00 am

One day I'm sure the U.S will block any and all relevant information about the atrocities the U.S military commits by saying it's treason...

Oh wait, that's today!
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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:01 am

Vazdania wrote:
Caninope wrote:You mean the guy who just hurt American foreign relations with our own allies? Yeah, no.

If America is doing something wrong, then let it be known throughout the world.

This man is a hero, not a villain.

Really? A hero?

.....all he did was release information about NSA that we, the American people knew about already....for the past 7 years.

He has done nothing really, a valiant act maybe, but not heroic of the slightest
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:03 am

Vazdania wrote:
Caninope wrote:You mean the guy who just hurt American foreign relations with our own allies? Yeah, no.

If America is doing something wrong, then let it be known throughout the world.

America is the glue holding together the rules based order the world currently experiences.

This man is a hero, not a villain.

He's a criminal, and (in my opinion) a bad person.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Czechanada
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Postby Czechanada » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:03 am

They can easily just snipe Snowden with a drone and say that the Canadians did it.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:03 am

Orcoa wrote:
Vazdania wrote:If America is doing something wrong, then let it be known throughout the world.

This man is a hero, not a villain.

Really? A hero?

.....all he did was release information about NSA that we, the American people knew about already....for the past 7 years.

He has done nothing really, a valiant act maybe, but not heroic of the slightest

That just does't matter.
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:03 am

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Ainin wrote:American thinks UK worse than America. Go figure.

Given all the surveillance cameras covering the UK due to it's largely urban population and then comparing to the US where a good percentage of the US has no surveillance as it's either too rural or nobody wants an unsightly camera.
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:04 am

Czechanada wrote:They can easily just snipe Snowden with a drone and say that the Canadians did it.

Just plant a trail of maple syrup that leads to canada to doing it and the world will believe it ;)
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:05 am

Vazdania wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Oh, PFC Manning shit.

sure. I mean what else is there to do???

I think they should have done the same thing with Julian Assange

I support what he did with Wikileaks, but he's a rapist. There's no way you can fucking excuse that. I'm not going to get and protest that a piece of shit shouldn't get what's coming to him. I don't care if it's fucking Roman Polanski. No matter how popular you are, no matter how artistic, no matter what you've done that's good, raping someone still makes you shit.
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Postby Grand Britannia » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:06 am

Oh well at least he won't survive Putin up with the cold in Moscow.
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:06 am

Orcoa wrote:
Czechanada wrote:They can easily just snipe Snowden with a drone and say that the Canadians did it.

Just plant a trail of maple syrup that leads to canada to doing it and the world will believe it ;)

:ugeek: I'm laughing on the inside about this.
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Postby New Chalcedon » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:09 am

Caninope wrote:
New Chalcedon wrote:Consider the (hypothetical) case of an Australian public-works contract about to be awarded: typically done on a low-viable-bid basis, with competitors putting in sealed bids. Because most company managers are happy enough to chat about such things over their "secure" emails, the NSA knows what the "low bid" for each of the Australian firms is as of the day before the bidding process is closed - an impecunious NSA officer approaches a contact of his in an American company which already does some work in Australia, and "lets slip" the amount of the current low bid in exchange for a consideration.

Et voila, the Australian subsidiary of that American company puts in a slightly lower bid, and gets the work - not because they bid honestly and well, but because they had access to information their Australian competitors didn't have. The now extremely pecunious NSA officer decides to keep an eye out for similar information to repeat the process, and everyone's happy except the Australian firm that got left out in the cold because of the corruption.

It took me less than a minute to envision such a scenario - I'm sure that it, and possibly worse, is happening on a routine basis given the government/corporate revolving door that is the US bureaucracy. And unless something's done, the only viable solution will be to simply ban US companies from operating in Australia altogether.

That's an absolutely absurd scenario, given the NSA's large independence and separation from the revolving door (as well as the Intelligence Community's insulation in general) not to mention the disciplinary and/or legal consequences such an employee would face.


And how is the NSA free of the revolving door business? Is there a prohibition on NSA agents maintaining personal contacts with businesspeople? Are NSA agents prohibited from working in the private sector after their employment ends? Somehow, I doubt it.

Also, trying to claim that there are no pecunious agents in the US intelligence apparatus is just a bit silly, given that Aldrich Ames escaped investigation for years while accepting millions in Soviet bribes. If one agent is willing to accept money from America's sworn ideological foe, what's to say that another won't accept "considerations" from an American company to generate more business overseas? After all, it doesn't hurt America a bit....

***

I'm not saying that this is definitely happening - I'm saying that it could easily be happening, given the nature of human corruption and the extent of data the PRISM program is gathering. I remember Operation Condor from the 1970s and 1980s, and I am highly-wary of US intelligence services operating "off the books", as PRISM is.
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Postby Tlik » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:11 am

Novaya Tselinoyarsk wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm happy to go with a "No seriously, what's corrupt about doing this above board instead of just sending Jason Bourne in?"

I wouldn't of wanted to send Jason Bourne in. They'd cut and shake the camera too much in the ensuing fight to make you believe he can actually fight.

And then Snowden would just get away while Bourne wrestles existentially with the question of his own identity. He's great if you want to just kill lots of people, but a mission with a plot? He'd go to pieces.

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Postby Napkiraly » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:12 am

Orcoa wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:The New York Times is reporting that someone "close to the situation" says Snowden is on his way to Caracas via Havana.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world ... ay.html?hp

What a fucking coward!

He won't face trial like a man and plea his case

Unsurprised really

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:15 am

New Chalcedon wrote:And how is the NSA free of the revolving door business? Is there a prohibition on NSA agents maintaining personal contacts with businesspeople? Are NSA agents prohibited from working in the private sector after their employment ends? Somehow, I doubt it.

No, but the intelligence community is a tight knit community, and revolving doors tend to be between agencies or within divisions of an agency, as opposed to between the corporate sector and the public sector (largely because the skills of the intelligence community and indeed confined to the intelligence community).

EDIT: Since you're probably going to wonder where I get my sources from, this comes from the mouth of several professors I've had, including one who worked at the CIA for over two and a half decades.

Also, trying to claim that there are no pecunious agents in the US intelligence apparatus is just a bit silly, given that Aldrich Ames escaped investigation for years while accepting millions in Soviet bribes. If one agent is willing to accept money from America's sworn ideological foe, what's to say that another won't accept "considerations" from an American company to generate more business overseas? After all, it doesn't hurt America a bit....

I'm not arguing that there are no agents in the US Intelligence Community willing to deal in information, but I'm instead arguing that it's hardly something that we should be panicing about, given both the internal and legal mechanisms to deal with said agents.

I'm not saying that this is definitely happening - I'm saying that it could easily be happening, given the nature of human corruption and the extent of data the PRISM program is gathering. I remember Operation Condor from the 1970s and 1980s, and I am highly-wary of US intelligence services operating "off the books", as PRISM is.

PRISM is not "off the books". It's classified. There's a very important difference.
Last edited by Caninope on Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
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Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:15 am

Napkiraly wrote:
Orcoa wrote:What a fucking coward!

He won't face trial like a man and plea his case

Unsurprised really

Hmmmm, not going to jail or going to jail.

Decisions, decisions.

So instead of standing on the moral high ground and face trial, He should run away from it and prove to the world that he is a criminal?

Yeah, what a messiah for Free Thought!
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