George Zimmerman's Trial/acquittal/DOJ charges

[The Grey Wolf]

"Help, I'm being beaten by- oh wait. It's illegal to use self-defense. Yeah, just recommence the beating."

do you think it should always be legal to end a fight with killing the other guy?

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

[Choronzon]

Lets be honest, if the races in this case were reversed you wouldn't buy any of this bullshit.

To be clear, I'm calling you a racist.

Let's be honest, if the races were reversed there wouldn't be any hubbud. Al Sharpton would probably still intervene about them prosecuting Trayvon Martin, so there might be a little splash.

To be clear, I'm calling you a PC racist. A racists who pats themselves on the back for how not racist they are.

This should be fun.


What about what I said was racist?

[Choronzon]

do you think it should always be legal to end a fight with killing the other guy?

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

He was being injured so badly that he didn't require a visit to the hospital. Clearly his life was in danger.

I mean honestly if you don't want to get in a fight you don't stalk another person and then pick a fight.

[Ashmoria]

do you think it should always be legal to end a fight with killing the other guy?

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

zimmerman had minor wounds at best.

but... as long as i can show ANY wounds its ok to end a fight with killing the other guy?

[The UK in Exile]

do you think it should always be legal to end a fight with killing the other guy?

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

so you believe people should be allowed to start a fight and, if/when they lose, shoot the other person?

[Electroconvulsive Glee]

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

zimmerman had minor wounds at best.

but... as long as i can show ANY wounds its ok to end a fight with killing the other guy?

Of course.

And, it is even a good idea. That way the person you kill cannot dispute that you did nothing wrong.

[Choronzon]

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

so you believe people should be allowed to start a fight and, if when they lose, shoot the other person?

Well I mean obviously Trayvon picked the fight. Its what those people do, right Grey Wolf?

[Greed and Death]

oh im sure the prosecution prayed to god every night that zimmerman would testify.

He would have undoubtedly told us an entirely new story that contradicted all his prior stories.

And the prosecution would have asked him about his will of god comment to Martin's mother.

Zimmerman is not someone you put on the stand, now if the defendant was a 5'1" 85 pound girl maybe.

The vast majority of cases I've read where the defendant testifies and gets convicted but the verdict gets reversed for some reason on the second trial the defendant declines to testify and does much better. Either an acquittal, or manslaughter instead of murder, or 2nd degree instead of first degree.

In general the type of people who end up in self defense cases are not sympathetic. My one incident with self defense luckily no charges were filed after me and my lawyer answered a few questions for the police.

[Grave_n_idle]

Who is 'poor George'?

Do I have to spell it out for you?

Yes.

The only 'George' I'm aware of in conjunction is not one that deserves sympathy.

[Ostroeuropa]

If your head is being pounded into the ground and you feel pain as well as notice you are bleeding from the back of your head, it doesn't matter that the wounds turn out to be minor.
Thats more than enough to justify immediate action on your part. You may have no idea on the status of the wounds being minor.
You have no idea what damage is being done to your brain at this point, or may be done if the attack continues.
The fact that the wounds turned out to be minor doesn't seem relevant.

[The UK in Exile]

If your head is being pounded into the ground and you feel pain as well as notice you are bleeding from the back of your head, it doesn't matter that the wounds turn out to be minor.
Thats more than enough to justify immediate action on your part. You may have no idea on the status of the wounds being minor.
You have no idea what damage is being done to your brain at this point, or may be done if the attack continues.
The fact that the wounds turned out to be minor doesn't seem relevant.

something to think about when you were sitting safe in your car.

[The Grey Wolf]

If your head is being pounded into the ground and you feel pain as well as notice you are bleeding from the back of your head, it doesn't matter that the wounds turn out to be minor.
Thats more than enough to justify immediate action on your part. You may have no idea on the status of the wounds being minor.
You have no idea what damage is being done to your brain at this point, or may be done if the attack continues.
The fact that the wounds turned out to be minor doesn't seem relevant.

something to think about when you were sitting safe in your car.

Yes, he did a drive by shooting on Martin.

[The Grey Wolf]

If your head is being pounded into the ground and you feel pain as well as notice you are bleeding from the back of your head, it doesn't matter that the wounds turn out to be minor.
Thats more than enough to justify immediate action on your part. You may have no idea on the status of the wounds being minor.
You have no idea what damage is being done to your brain at this point, or may be done if the attack continues.
The fact that the wounds turned out to be minor doesn't seem relevant.

Holy sh*t, for once we agree with each other.

[Choronzon]

something to think about when you were sitting safe in your car.

Yes, he did a drive by shooting on Martin.

This is just precious.

[Farnhamia]

something to think about when you were sitting safe in your car.

Yes, he did a drive by shooting on Martin.

No, but he was told by the 911 operator to stay in his car and wait for the police. The real police, you know.

[The UK in Exile]

Yes, he did a drive by shooting on Martin.

This is just precious.

not really, if you can find one on the internet, odds are you'll find two or three in a jury...

[Greed and Death]

When the guy is beating you against the curb, yeah I do.

zimmerman had minor wounds at best.

but... as long as i can show ANY wounds its ok to end a fight with killing the other guy?

I don't know if I would call a broken nose minor, not life threatening, but beyond minor.
But, its not the actual severity of the injuries it is how Zimmerman perceived the situation.

[Choronzon]

Yes, he did a drive by shooting on Martin.

No, but he was told by the 911 operator to stay in his car and wait for the police. The real police, you know.

Fuck you I have a gun, I don't need no big gub'ment law enforcement.


I am the law.

[Greed and Death]

Yes, he did a drive by shooting on Martin.

This is just precious.

Stop making fun of Ms. Jeanteel.

[Electroconvulsive Glee]

How do those who are convinced that George Zimmerman not only should be acquitted but did nothing wrong or should not have been prosecuted -- let alone is a "hero" -- reconcile this view with his refusal to testify as to his version of events? Also, how do you reconcile this view with his refusal to request a "stand your ground hearing"? (see below)

As a matter of law, this is irrelevant. He retains the legal presumption of innocence. His exercise of his right not to testify should raise no inference against him.

As a matter of legal strategy, this makes some sense.

But, it has been repeatedly emphasized that none of you are jurors and whether your opinions relate to the relevant law or actual evidence is irrelevant to this discussion. So, in that non-legal context, why do you believe someone's version of events that they will not tell under oath? Why do you believe someone who will not be cross-examined?

Add to that that Mr. Zimmerman out of court statements have been contradictory, that his motive for lying is pretty obvious, he publicly deceived the court in this case, he admittedly lied to his own attorneys, and his prior record of violence. Why is it so clear that Mr. Zimmerman is telling the truth and, separately, is blameless?

Further, under Florida law, one who allegedly acted in self-defense is entitled to a separate hearing ("mini-trial") on whether they have a valid defense. If they prevail, they are immune from both criminal prosecution and civil actions. If they lose, they may still assert self-defense in either a criminal prosecution or civil action. Mr. Zimmerman waived his right to such a hearing -- something the judge in his criminal case questioned.

Again, this is legally irrelevant, etc. As a strategy, it makes little sense. But in the non-legal context here, it seems incongruous with the notion that Mr. Zimmerman clearly acted in self-defense.

I fully understand that whether or not one knows the relevant law or the trial evidence one can believe Mr. Zimmerman should be acquitted, presuming he is innocent, or withholding judgment. I do not understand, however, the insistence that he is clearly innocent both legally and otherwise, that he should have been charged, etc.

[Ostroeuropa]

If your head is being pounded into the ground and you feel pain as well as notice you are bleeding from the back of your head, it doesn't matter that the wounds turn out to be minor.
Thats more than enough to justify immediate action on your part. You may have no idea on the status of the wounds being minor.
You have no idea what damage is being done to your brain at this point, or may be done if the attack continues.
The fact that the wounds turned out to be minor doesn't seem relevant.

something to think about when you were sitting safe in your car.

Martin had no wounds sans the gunshot.
Zero.
Explain how Zimmerman "Started" this fight

[The UK in Exile]

something to think about when you were sitting safe in your car.

Martin had no wounds sans the gunshot.
Zero.
Explain how Zimmerman "Started" this fight

following Trevon in his car before Climbing out of his car and pursuing Trevon causing him to fear for his life and lash out in self-defense.

[Choronzon]

Martin had no wounds sans the gunshot.
Zero.
Explain how Zimmerman "Started" this fight

following Trevon in his car before Climbing out of his car and pursuing Trevon causing him to fear for his life and lash out in self-defense.

Silly UK in Exile, negros don't have a right to self defense in the south.

[Ostroeuropa]

Martin had no wounds sans the gunshot.
Zero.
Explain how Zimmerman "Started" this fight

following Trevon in his car before Climbing out of his car and pursuing Trevon causing him to fear for his life and lash out in self-defense.

Following someone in your car is not starting fight.
Nor is pursuit starting a fight.
It would possibly justify Treyvon starting the fight if he were up on assault charges, on the grounds he was "scared for his life." (Something you have no idea whether or not is true and are pulling out of nowhere)

These are public areas.
Zimmerman is within his rights to walk them or drive through them.

You seem to be arguing like thugs here.
Being an asshole is not them "Starting a fight."
Following someone is not them "Starting a fight."
You know what is starting a fight?
Throwing a punch.

Your double standards are completely disgusting to be honest.
You are the same people who'd argue that shooting a thief is bad and they should call the police, but seem to think that the NON-CRIME of pursuit can justify initiating violence.

Martin was in possession of a phone. He did not call the police.
The only reason you are taking this stance is because it's a black kid who got shot.

[The Grey Wolf]

This is just precious.

Stop making fun of Ms. Jeanteel.

It will certainly be hard. She makes the woman who played Precious look like an anorexic.