George Zimmerman's Trial/acquittal/DOJ charges

[The UK in Exile]

Which he did.

And then Zimmerman attacked him.

Martin has Zero wounds.
I'm calling bullshit.

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martins-f ... 29832.html

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?" She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

[The Grey Wolf]

Because I don't agree with you?

People disagree with me all the time without being racist. You should learn that skill.

What have I said in the thread that was racist?

[Ostroeuropa]

Martin has Zero wounds.
I'm calling bullshit.

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martins-f ... 29832.html

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?" She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

Zero Wounds.
Bullshit.
People can lie, and her testimony doesn't fit the facts.
Why did the phone go dead? Seems like a movie scene and not reality.

[The UK in Exile]

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martins-f ... 29832.html

Zero Wounds.
Bullshit.
People can lie, and her testimony doesn't fit the facts.

No apparent wounds. grappling tends not to leave bruises.

lets just say her testimony is consistent with the facts.

[The Grey Wolf]

Unlike you, I've actually been to the South. Hell, I've lived there all my life.

I always assumed you were.

Guess why?

I wonder what would've happened if you said that to a Jew. Or a black guy.

[Fartsniffage]

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martins-f ... 29832.html

Zero Wounds.
Bullshit.
People can lie, and her testimony doesn't fit the facts.
Why did the phone go dead?

You said earlier that laying a hand on one justified self-defence. Do you stand by that?

[Choronzon]

People disagree with me all the time without being racist. You should learn that skill.

What have I said in the thread that was racist?

Its your whole attitude and outlook towards the whole thing. Your insistence on focusing on Trayvon's past while ignoring Zimmerman's history of violent crime. This burning need to attack the intelligence and physical appearance of a black witness. And your total willingness to buy every lie that slithers out of Zimmerman's mouth.

[Ostroeuropa]

Zero Wounds.
Bullshit.
People can lie, and her testimony doesn't fit the facts.
Why did the phone go dead?

You said earlier that laying a hand on one justified self-defence. Do you stand by that?

With some caveats, broadly speaking, yes.
Merely being touched isn't sufficient. There would have to be an attempt to injure or restrain. That could include a hand on the shoulder (From behind) if it were placed firmly enough, since that position places you in a very weakened situation.
(A tactic used by muggers is to place their hand on your shoulder from behind, and pull. Hard. Doing this on an incline or hill can and often will result in the person falling backward and cracking their head or being stunned momentarily.)
We have absolutely no idea what happened here if something like that (A non-wound leaving attack) took place.
So to say "Well zimmerman clearly did X." is just fucking ridiculous.
It's people desperately trying to justify their racism and making shit up to make Zimmerman a murderer.

[The UK in Exile]

You said earlier that laying a hand on one justified self-defence. Do you stand by that?

With some caveats, broadly speaking, yes.
Merely being touched isn't sufficient. There would have to be an attempt to injure or restrain. That could include a hand on the shoulder (From behind) if it were placed firmly enough, since that position places you in a very weakened situation.

and also doesn't leave a mark. which is somewhat inconsistent with your position.

[Conservative Idealism]

I've given up all hope for Florida. They stack the odds against a guy who killed in self-defense, subject him to media torture, and will make him getting out of this look illegitimate, and that's just for this trial. Considering their recent Internet ban, poor judicial system and poorer bureaucratic organization, they officially rank below California in terms of meaningfulness...and that's saying something.

If this Zimmerman guy were to write a book, it would look near-identical to the Book of Job with all of the tribulations he's endured.

[Fartsniffage]

You said earlier that laying a hand on one justified self-defence. Do you stand by that?

With some caveats, broadly speaking, yes.
Merely being touched isn't sufficient. There would have to be an attempt to injure or restrain.

And Zimmerman grabbing the kids hoodie would fit your requirement for an attempt to restrain, not cause injury and fit with the testimony of "Get off! Get off!".

It's also quite a logical sequence of events.

[The UK in Exile]

I've given up all hope for Florida. They stack the odds against a guy who killed in self-defense, subject him to media torture, and will make him getting out of this look illegitimate, and that's just for this trial. Considering their recent Internet ban, poor judicial system and poorer bureaucratic organization, they officially rank below California in terms of meaningfulness...and that's saying something.

If this Zimmerman guy were to write a book, it would look near-identical to the Book of Job with all of the tribulations he's endured.

fictional and beloved of conservatives.

seems apt.

[Ostroeuropa]

With some caveats, broadly speaking, yes.
Merely being touched isn't sufficient. There would have to be an attempt to injure or restrain.

And Zimmerman grabbing the kids hoodie would fit your requirement for an attempt to restrain, not cause injury and fit with the testimony of "Get off! Get off!".

It's also quite a logical sequence of events.

We have absolutely no idea what happened here if something like that (A non-wound leaving attack) took place.
So to say "Well zimmerman clearly did X." is just fucking ridiculous.
It's people desperately trying to justify their racism and making shit up to make Zimmerman a murderer.

There is no evidence beyond people just making shit up that that happened. It's for racist motivations that they do so.

[The Verdance]

What have I said in the thread that was racist?

Its your whole attitude and outlook towards the whole thing. Your insistence on focusing on Trayvon's past while ignoring Zimmerman's history of violent crime. This burning need to attack the intelligence and physical appearance of a black witness. And your total willingness to buy every lie that slithers out of Zimmerman's mouth.

Link his quotes to us and explain how they're racist. Come on, now, don't be shy. You've obviously got the upper hand in this struggle between good and evil, black and white, blue and red, subway and quiznos, japan and china, NSA and Snowden.

[Greed and Death]

Non legal, because being cross examined sucks. Those law talking guys are very good at making everyone look like a liar.

But I do not think Zimmerman is morally in the clear I think his actions were clearly morally wrong so I am not certain you were addressing me. who here is saying that he is a hero ?

I think it is unfair to ask for a nonlegal reasons as to why legal action should not be filed.
Alan Dershowitz, has presented his opinion that the affidavit was lacking for Probable cause, I don't necessarily think he was right he is a little more pro defendant than even I am.

What about not seeking a "stand your ground" hearing? (see my amended post)

Also, you did not address any of the "add in" factors.

I am unclear as to why (alleged) legal reasons justify non-legal conclusions in favor of Mr. Zimmerman. I am even more unclear as to how legal reasons are relevant to questions to which people have repeatedly asserted the actual law (and evidence) is irrelevant. Finally, even if strategy advises against testifying, how is that itself proof that out-of-court, self-serving stories of dubious credibility?

I am perhaps confused on this question, are you asking for nonlegal justifications as to why Zimmerman pursued a certain legal strategy ?
Or are you asking for nonlegal moral defense of his actions ?

I don't know if the former is answerable, and I wont give him the later because he deserve none.

[Ashmoria]

I've given up all hope for Florida. They stack the odds against a guy who killed in self-defense, subject him to media torture, and will make him getting out of this look illegitimate, and that's just for this trial. Considering their recent Internet ban, poor judicial system and poorer bureaucratic organization, they officially rank below California in terms of meaningfulness...and that's saying something.

If this Zimmerman guy were to write a book, it would look near-identical to the Book of Job with all of the tribulations he's endured.

yeah the poor thing.

and all he did was shoot to death a teenager coming home from the store.

life is so unfair.

[Electroconvulsive Glee]

Assuming one is in a situation described your first sentence is true, you do realize that is not necessarily -- at least as matter of law -- "more than enough to justify" use of deadly force, right?

Moreover, having "no idea" how one is being injured is a far cry from reasonably believing one faces imminent death or great bodily harm. And nothing you post says one in that situation would reasonably believe it was necessary to use deadly force to defend oneself. Then there is the question of whether you provoked the attack or fight or were engaged in criminal activity.

If your head is being slammed into the concrete repeatedly, it's entirely reasonable to think it's necessary to use deadly force to stop that happening.
Had the attacks continued, it's possible that Zimmerman could have suffered brain damage or died.
Brain Damage would, I think, be enough bodily harm to justify deadly force.
It's enough of a consideration to believe that someone can be in genuine fear for their life at that moment.

Um, try actually addressing what I posted and not jumbling up independent matters into gobbledly-gook.

But . . . among other things . . .

"No idea" as to extent of injury ≠ fear for life

Possibility of harm or death "if attacks continue[]" ≠ necessary to use deadly force to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm

Genuine fear for your life ≠ reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm

And these are not the only questions relevant to whether the use of deadly force was justified.

[Choronzon]

Its your whole attitude and outlook towards the whole thing. Your insistence on focusing on Trayvon's past while ignoring Zimmerman's history of violent crime. This burning need to attack the intelligence and physical appearance of a black witness. And your total willingness to buy every lie that slithers out of Zimmerman's mouth.

Link his quotes to us and explain how they're racist. Come on, now, don't be shy. You've obviously got the upper hand in this struggle between good and evil, black and white, blue and red, subway and quiznos, japan and china, NSA and Snowden.

What part of its outlook and attitude is hard for you to grasp?

Racists very rarely walk around screaming how they hate black people. The real world is usually not that simple.

[The UK in Exile]

And Zimmerman grabbing the kids hoodie would fit your requirement for an attempt to restrain, not cause injury and fit with the testimony of "Get off! Get off!".

It's also quite a logical sequence of events.

We have absolutely no idea what happened here if something like that (A non-wound leaving attack) took place.
So to say "Well zimmerman clearly did X." is just fucking ridiculous.
It's people desperately trying to justify their racism and making shit up to make Zimmerman a murderer.

we do, we have the testimony of the girl on the phone, which you dismissed because martin has zero injuries, injuries you don't believe are nessecary to justify self-defence.

[Choronzon]

I've given up all hope for Florida. They stack the odds against a guy who killed in self-defense, subject him to media torture, and will make him getting out of this look illegitimate, and that's just for this trial. Considering their recent Internet ban, poor judicial system and poorer bureaucratic organization, they officially rank below California in terms of meaningfulness...and that's saying something.

If this Zimmerman guy were to write a book, it would look near-identical to the Book of Job with all of the tribulations he's endured.

I have no tears for murderers.

[The Grey Wolf]

What have I said in the thread that was racist?

Its your whole attitude and outlook towards the whole thing. Your insistence on focusing on Trayvon's past while ignoring Zimmerman's history of violent crime. This burning need to attack the intelligence and physical appearance of a black witness. And your total willingness to buy every lie that slithers out of Zimmerman's mouth.

First of all, have you seen that woman? She gives black people a bad name. She is the living embodiment of black stereotypes. She should be on South Park, not testifying on the witness stand.
Focusing on Trayvon Martin's past does not make me a racist. The fact that he was a little teenage punk who was a future Black Power recruit, not the sweet, 12 year old little boy, the media wants to show pictures of, set off alarms in my mind.

[The Grey Wolf]

I've given up all hope for Florida. They stack the odds against a guy who killed in self-defense, subject him to media torture, and will make him getting out of this look illegitimate, and that's just for this trial. Considering their recent Internet ban, poor judicial system and poorer bureaucratic organization, they officially rank below California in terms of meaningfulness...and that's saying something.

If this Zimmerman guy were to write a book, it would look near-identical to the Book of Job with all of the tribulations he's endured.

"The Book of George."

[Choronzon]

Its your whole attitude and outlook towards the whole thing. Your insistence on focusing on Trayvon's past while ignoring Zimmerman's history of violent crime. This burning need to attack the intelligence and physical appearance of a black witness. And your total willingness to buy every lie that slithers out of Zimmerman's mouth.

First of all, have you seen that woman? She gives black people a bad name. She is the living embodiment of black stereotypes. She should be on South Park, not testifying on the witness stand.

Nothing racist here. Nope.

Focusing on Trayvon Martin's past does not make me a racist. The fact that he was a little teenage punk who was a future Black Power recruit,

Which you have nothing to base this off of, other than the fact that he was black.

Yeah, you're totally not a racist.

12 year old little boy, the media wants to show pictures of, set off alarms in my mind.

No, what set off alarms in your mind was that he was black.

[The Grey Wolf]

I've given up all hope for Florida. They stack the odds against a guy who killed in self-defense, subject him to media torture, and will make him getting out of this look illegitimate, and that's just for this trial. Considering their recent Internet ban, poor judicial system and poorer bureaucratic organization, they officially rank below California in terms of meaningfulness...and that's saying something.

If this Zimmerman guy were to write a book, it would look near-identical to the Book of Job with all of the tribulations he's endured.

I have no tears for murderers.

If Martin had killed Zimmerman, would that be murder?

[Electroconvulsive Glee]

You said earlier that laying a hand on one justified self-defence. Do you stand by that?

With some caveats, broadly speaking, yes.
Merely being touched isn't sufficient. There would have to be an attempt to injure or restrain. That could include a hand on the shoulder (From behind) if it were placed firmly enough, since that position places you in a very weakened situation.
(A tactic used by muggers is to place their hand on your shoulder from behind, and pull. Hard. Doing this on an incline or hill can and often will result in the person falling backward and cracking their head or being stunned momentarily.)

Are these opinions (and similar statements about what constitutes "starting fight," justifies throwing a punch, or justifies deadly force) about the law? Ethics?

Regardless, on what are they based?

We have absolutely no idea what happened here if something like that (A non-wound leaving attack) took place.
So to say "Well zimmerman clearly did X." is just fucking ridiculous.
It's people desperately trying to justify their racism and making shit up to make Zimmerman a murderer.

And yet you freely opine about what happened and have said some things clearly did or did not happen.

EDIT: Fixed quote error.