Are Disney Movies Bad for Children?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Okay, I was going to pick one of Electroconvulsive Glee's posts and respond to it, but I realized it'd actually be best to make a general response*.

Essentially: Whether or not a particular stereotype being shown in a movie is actually reinforcing a negative stereotype is ridiculously, ridiculously context dependent and cannot be answered with "yes" or "no". Why? Because, well, how often has there been that much gypsy hate in America, despite that post EG made about the one character that was a stereotype of a Romani individual (and yes, I know that's predominantly a European problem--that's my point)? Hell, forget problems that never hit our regions--how much of an assertion has there ever been in modern-day america that Asians follow the stereotypes often placed upon them in movies about, for example, feudal China or Japan?

And with women, frankly, there is no slack that Disney really needs to pick up, because strong women are in a lot of places in the media. Perhaps, if you cherry-pick a few old works, you might find some weaker types. But they're a niche.

*Okay, one response to a specific post: How in the hell do you get racism from a movie where the characters aren't even human? (The Lion King)?

I agree but I would also like to add that it is this political correctness culture in society today that is causing this. No one would have cared unless people brought this up, it has happened in other areas of society. I mean if you want to complain then there was something about Homer from the Simpsons being a negative stereotype for men!

No one would have cared if people hadn't brought this up?

If no one had cared, no one would have brought it up in the first place. Therefore, you have it exactly backwards.

[Rumostan]

I agree but I would also like to add that it is this political correctness culture in society today that is causing this. No one would have cared unless people brought this up, it has happened in other areas of society. I mean if you want to complain then there was something about Homer from the Simpsons being a negative stereotype for men!

No one would have cared if people hadn't brought this up?

If no one had cared, no one would have brought it up in the first place. Therefore, you have it exactly backwards.

A few people might have cared, but when some people try to make people do as they wish then it is not good.

[Ifreann]

No one would have cared if people hadn't brought this up?

If no one had cared, no one would have brought it up in the first place. Therefore, you have it exactly backwards.

A few people might have cared, but when some people try to make people do as they wish then it is not good.

Who is trying to make people do as they wish here?

[Vazdania]

I am not 100% sure this belongs in General rather than Arts and Fiction but as the intent here is to focus the discussion on the influence of the films on society rather than the films themselves I'm putting it here.

I was watching a bunch of Disney movies with my sister yesterday and I do not think they are a good influence on children, especially girls. The movies are full of racist and sexist messages.
The classic Disney princesses are all dangerously underweight. Many are passive and helpless and even those who do have some control over their own lives are still ultimately reliant on the prince to save them. Most marry in their teens.
On top of this there is a pattern in the appearances of the characters. Protagonists of both genders are beautiful, supporting characters are strange looking and villains are ugly or monstrous. This clearly sends the wrong message about appearance. Villains are always darker in colour than the heroes as well. Even on the rare occasion heroes are not white they are always lighter skinned than the villains.
One exception I noted was Beauty and the Beast which had only the problem of the underweight princess. I also am overlooking the 21st century films as they do not have the same influence as the older ones in popular culture.
I would not take issue with any of this if these were movies for adults, but as Disney movies are not only aimed at young children but are usually the first movies children see it is important to be aware of the lessons they are teaching.

What does everybody else think? Are Disney movies a bad influence on children? Do the characters make good role models?

EDIT: I would like to retract my claim about Beauty and the Beast not being harmful in light of some well reasoned responses. I still think it is better than most but clearly there are problems I missed.

All of anything disney is now bad for children.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

A few people might have cared, but when some people try to make people do as they wish then it is not good.

Who is trying to make people do as they wish here?

It all goes back to that typical "anti-P.C." attitude in which any criticism or analysis of a person's statement, no matter how idiotic, is automatically seen as an attempt to suppress or censor said statement.

[Ifreann]

I am not 100% sure this belongs in General rather than Arts and Fiction but as the intent here is to focus the discussion on the influence of the films on society rather than the films themselves I'm putting it here.

I was watching a bunch of Disney movies with my sister yesterday and I do not think they are a good influence on children, especially girls. The movies are full of racist and sexist messages.
The classic Disney princesses are all dangerously underweight. Many are passive and helpless and even those who do have some control over their own lives are still ultimately reliant on the prince to save them. Most marry in their teens.
On top of this there is a pattern in the appearances of the characters. Protagonists of both genders are beautiful, supporting characters are strange looking and villains are ugly or monstrous. This clearly sends the wrong message about appearance. Villains are always darker in colour than the heroes as well. Even on the rare occasion heroes are not white they are always lighter skinned than the villains.
One exception I noted was Beauty and the Beast which had only the problem of the underweight princess. I also am overlooking the 21st century films as they do not have the same influence as the older ones in popular culture.
I would not take issue with any of this if these were movies for adults, but as Disney movies are not only aimed at young children but are usually the first movies children see it is important to be aware of the lessons they are teaching.

What does everybody else think? Are Disney movies a bad influence on children? Do the characters make good role models?

EDIT: I would like to retract my claim about Beauty and the Beast not being harmful in light of some well reasoned responses. I still think it is better than most but clearly there are problems I missed.

All of anything disney is now bad for children.

Yes yes, you hate lesbians. We know.

[Vazdania]

All of anything disney is now bad for children.

Yes yes, you hate lesbians. We know.

[Ifreann]

Who is trying to make people do as they wish here?

It all goes back to that typical "anti-P.C." attitude in which any criticism or analysis of a person's statement, no matter how idiotic, is automatically seen as an attempt to suppress or censor said statement.

I imagine so.

[Rumostan]

Who is trying to make people do as they wish here?

It all goes back to that typical "anti-P.C." attitude in which any criticism or analysis of a person's statement, no matter how idiotic, is automatically seen as an attempt to suppress or censor said statement.

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

[Charellia]

I agree but I would also like to add that it is this political correctness culture in society today that is causing this. No one would have cared unless people brought this up, it has happened in other areas of society. I mean if you want to complain then there was something about Homer from the Simpsons being a negative stereotype for men!

Homer Simpson isn't a children's character. Adults are not effected by media the same way children are.

[Ifreann]

It all goes back to that typical "anti-P.C." attitude in which any criticism or analysis of a person's statement, no matter how idiotic, is automatically seen as an attempt to suppress or censor said statement.

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

Who said they shouldn't be able to watch Disney movies?

[Rumostan]

I agree but I would also like to add that it is this political correctness culture in society today that is causing this. No one would have cared unless people brought this up, it has happened in other areas of society. I mean if you want to complain then there was something about Homer from the Simpsons being a negative stereotype for men!

Homer Simpson isn't a children's character. Adults are not effected by media the same way children are.

I was giving an example, I guess that a more appropriate example from the article would be Peppa Pig's father which certain people in the article deem to be demeaning to men and giving boys a poor role model to look up to.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

It all goes back to that typical "anti-P.C." attitude in which any criticism or analysis of a person's statement, no matter how idiotic, is automatically seen as an attempt to suppress or censor said statement.

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

Okay, there are several problems with this statement. I'll address the two most obvious ones.

First, no one has said that children should be prevented from watching these films, but rather that it is important for parents to discuss the underlying messages with their children. That's responsible parenting 101, and I would hope that you don't have a problem with that.

Second, how far does that idea extend? If children want to watch slasher films, should they be able to do so? What about hardcore pornography? No, I'm not comparing them to Disney films (which, as I stated, are fine for children to watch so long as the parents are involved), but you might want to rethink the statement, and realize that there are some limits.

[Rumostan]

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

Okay, there are several problems with this statement. I'll address the two most obvious ones.

First, no one has said that children should be prevented from watching these films, but rather that it is important for parents to discuss the underlying messages with their children. That's responsible parenting 101, and I would hope that you don't have a problem with that.

Second, how far does that idea extend? If children want to watch slasher films, should they be able to do so? What about hardcore pornography? No, I'm not comparing them to Disney films (which, as I stated, are fine for children to watch so long as the parents are involved), but you might want to rethink the statement, and realize that there are some limits.

First, I agree.

Second though, the Disney films are meant for a certain age group, hardcore pornography and slasher films are most certainly not aimed at that age group. The Disney films were made to amuse children but I doubt that most of those children who watch Disney films even know what hardcore pornography and the slasher films are.

I realise that you were not comparing them but one most not delve into the films too much, I have yet to see evidence of a child or a group of children being negatively affected by what they watch.

[Individuality-ness]

It all goes back to that typical "anti-P.C." attitude in which any criticism or analysis of a person's statement, no matter how idiotic, is automatically seen as an attempt to suppress or censor said statement.

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

May I be direct with you for a moment?

Actually, screw the asking, I'll do it anyways.

When I was a little kid, someone in my extended family gave my brother and I a VHS copy of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We loved that movie, we watched it quite often. If I had a VHS player today, I'd still be playing it. The VHS copy is currently sitting in front of me on my dresser, still in its original packaging.

I checked out a large anthology of fairy tales by the Brother's Grimm from the public library. I perused that every single day for a week, and then I went back and reread them again. Some of my favorite stories from that one include their version of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

I love Shakespeare. Some of the most enjoyable plays that I've read yet was The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, and The Taming of the Shrew.

As a feminist, I am also aware that they are problematic. But I am aware of their problematic-ness, and I acknowledge it.

Just because we see problems doesn't mean we want to ban it. I would want kids to read Shakespeare, read fairy tales, watch Disney movies, etc. It's part of our culture. But I want to teach them that this are all just archetypes, that there are other options out there, and that they need not be a princess/prince Charming to find happiness.

That's it. Teach them.

[Rumostan]

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

May I be direct with you for a moment?

Actually, screw the asking, I'll do it anyways.

When I was a little kid, someone in my extended family gave my brother and I a VHS copy of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We loved that movie, we watched it quite often. If I had a VHS player today, I'd still be playing it. The VHS copy is currently sitting in front of me on my dresser, still in its original packaging.

I checked out a large anthology of fairy tales by the Brother's Grimm from the public library. I perused that every single day for a week, and then I went back and reread them again. Some of my favorite stories from that one include their version of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

I love Shakespeare. Some of the most enjoyable plays that I've read yet was The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, and The Taming of the Shrew.

As a feminist, I am also aware that they are problematic. But I am aware of their problematic-ness, and I acknowledge it.

Just because we see problems doesn't mean we want to ban it. I would want kids to read Shakespeare, read fairy tales, watch Disney movies, etc. It's part of our culture. But I want to teach them that this are all just archetypes, that there are other options out there, and that they need not be a princess/prince Charming to find happiness.

That's it. Teach them.

I agree with you.

[Individuality-ness]

May I be direct with you for a moment?

Actually, screw the asking, I'll do it anyways.

When I was a little kid, someone in my extended family gave my brother and I a VHS copy of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We loved that movie, we watched it quite often. If I had a VHS player today, I'd still be playing it. The VHS copy is currently sitting in front of me on my dresser, still in its original packaging.

I checked out a large anthology of fairy tales by the Brother's Grimm from the public library. I perused that every single day for a week, and then I went back and reread them again. Some of my favorite stories from that one include their version of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

I love Shakespeare. Some of the most enjoyable plays that I've read yet was The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, and The Taming of the Shrew.

As a feminist, I am also aware that they are problematic. But I am aware of their problematic-ness, and I acknowledge it.

Just because we see problems doesn't mean we want to ban it. I would want kids to read Shakespeare, read fairy tales, watch Disney movies, etc. It's part of our culture. But I want to teach them that this are all just archetypes, that there are other options out there, and that they need not be a princess/prince Charming to find happiness.

That's it. Teach them.

I agree with you.

And that's all we're arguing. Teach them. But the only way we can is if we are aware of what problems exist. Hence, the discussion.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Okay, there are several problems with this statement. I'll address the two most obvious ones.

First, no one has said that children should be prevented from watching these films, but rather that it is important for parents to discuss the underlying messages with their children. That's responsible parenting 101, and I would hope that you don't have a problem with that.

Second, how far does that idea extend? If children want to watch slasher films, should they be able to do so? What about hardcore pornography? No, I'm not comparing them to Disney films (which, as I stated, are fine for children to watch so long as the parents are involved), but you might want to rethink the statement, and realize that there are some limits.

First, I agree.

Second though, the Disney films are meant for a certain age group, hardcore pornography and slasher films are most certainly not aimed at that age group. The Disney films were made to amuse children but I doubt that most of those children who watch Disney films even know what hardcore pornography and the slasher films are.

I realise that you were not comparing them but one most not delve into the films too much, I have yet to see evidence of a child or a group of children being negatively affected by what they watch.

I already linked this one: http://voices.yahoo.com/media-gender-st ... html?cat=7

More:

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/developmen ... erventions

http://www.childrennow.org/index.php/le ... ass_gender

And so on. Just Google "Child development media studies" and you'll find plenty of information.

[Ifreann]

No, it is the fact that if the children want it then they should be able to watch it.

May I be direct with you for a moment?

Actually, screw the asking, I'll do it anyways.

When I was a little kid, someone in my extended family gave my brother and I a VHS copy of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We loved that movie, we watched it quite often. If I had a VHS player today, I'd still be playing it. The VHS copy is currently sitting in front of me on my dresser, still in its original packaging.

I checked out a large anthology of fairy tales by the Brother's Grimm from the public library. I perused that every single day for a week, and then I went back and reread them again. Some of my favorite stories from that one include their version of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

I love Shakespeare. Some of the most enjoyable plays that I've read yet was The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, and The Taming of the Shrew.

As a feminist, I am also aware that they are problematic. But I am aware of their problematic-ness, and I acknowledge it.

Just because we see problems doesn't mean we want to ban it. I would want kids to read Shakespeare, read fairy tales, watch Disney movies, etc. It's part of our culture. But I want to teach them that this are all just archetypes, that there are other options out there, and that they need not be a princess/prince Charming to find happiness.

That's it. Teach them.

Teach...children? Why, that's godless communism!

[Awesomeness YoloSwag]

Wait...What "Bad" Disney Movies are you talking about? I grew up on Disney Movies as a Kid and absolutely loved them! Dumbo, Snow White, Bambi, The Lion King, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Aladdin etc.... There were so many good disney movies and I have very fond memories of a lot of them.

Try reading the thread. You appear to have not even read the OP.

Racism & sexism are prevalent in at least Dumbo, Snow White, The Lion King, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Aladdin. Specific examples have been discussed.

But, your argument is pretty airtight. Clearly, if even one person -- let alone lots of people -- like something or have fond memories of something, it must be flawless and beyond criticism.

Look I'm not saying that we shouldn't question things and critique them. Disney Movies have their flaws and they are not "perfect." And it's good that we discuss those flaws, because you're right, nothing is flawless and beyond criticism...But despite those flaws I still believe that Disney Movies are generally good and not bad influences on children. I believe this because The Main Message of most Disney Movies are good, not bad. I'll give you one example even though I could give you many:

I probably watched the movie Dumbo once a month for 2 years with my Grandmother as a Kid. I loved that movie. To me the main message of the movie was that it was "ok" to be unique. Dumbo was ridiculed for having big ears his entire life, and it really hurt his feelings and he felt like a loser outcast. But ultimately his big ears had a unique ability and they allowed Dumbo to fly. And what's cooler than a flying elephant? So Dumbo taught me to embrace my own uniqueness and to be more comfortable in my own skin. I know the movie has some controversy, because of the "Shuck and Jive" Singing Crows, but nothing is perfect. I looked over this flaw and focused on the main message of the movie, which is a good message.

[Altito Asmoro]

I probably watched the movie Dumbo once a month for 2 years with my Grandmother as a Kid. I loved that movie. To me the main message of the movie was that it was "ok" to be unique. Dumbo was ridiculed for having big ears his entire life, and it really hurt his feelings and he felt like a loser outcast. But ultimately his big ears had a unique ability and they allowed Dumbo to fly. And what's cooler than a flying elephant? So Dumbo taught me to embrace my own uniqueness and to be more comfortable in my own skin. I know the movie has some controversy, because of the "Shuck and Jive" Singing Crows, but nothing is perfect. I looked over this flaw and focused on the main message of the movie, which is a good message.

Dumbo? I don't really like it.

[Awesomeness YoloSwag]

I probably watched the movie Dumbo once a month for 2 years with my Grandmother as a Kid. I loved that movie. To me the main message of the movie was that it was "ok" to be unique. Dumbo was ridiculed for having big ears his entire life, and it really hurt his feelings and he felt like a loser outcast. But ultimately his big ears had a unique ability and they allowed Dumbo to fly. And what's cooler than a flying elephant? So Dumbo taught me to embrace my own uniqueness and to be more comfortable in my own skin. I know the movie has some controversy, because of the "Shuck and Jive" Singing Crows, but nothing is perfect. I looked over this flaw and focused on the main message of the movie, which is a good message.

Dumbo? I don't really like it.

Awwwwww why not? Though I do admit it's a pretty strange movie at some parts. Like that Pink Elephant scene. Geez that scene still gives me the creeps after all these years.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJv2Mugm2RI

[Mkuki]

Dumbo? I don't really like it.

Awwwwww why not? Though I do admit it's a pretty strange movie at some parts. Like that Pink Elephant scene. Geez that scene still gives me the creeps after all these years.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJv2Mugm2RI

That was...uh...odd.

[America Resurgent]

May I be direct with you for a moment?

Actually, screw the asking, I'll do it anyways.

When I was a little kid, someone in my extended family gave my brother and I a VHS copy of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We loved that movie, we watched it quite often. If I had a VHS player today, I'd still be playing it. The VHS copy is currently sitting in front of me on my dresser, still in its original packaging.

I checked out a large anthology of fairy tales by the Brother's Grimm from the public library. I perused that every single day for a week, and then I went back and reread them again. Some of my favorite stories from that one include their version of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

I love Shakespeare. Some of the most enjoyable plays that I've read yet was The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, and The Taming of the Shrew.

As a feminist, I am also aware that they are problematic. But I am aware of their problematic-ness, and I acknowledge it.

Just because we see problems doesn't mean we want to ban it. I would want kids to read Shakespeare, read fairy tales, watch Disney movies, etc. It's part of our culture. But I want to teach them that this are all just archetypes, that there are other options out there, and that they need not be a princess/prince Charming to find happiness.

That's it. Teach them.

I will say that feminism in general could really do some more to make that position clearer, honestly. The actual point of "teach them" was only brought up in the last couple of pages of this entire thread, where before that only the problematic nature of the works were discussed (even in situations where the displays, like that supposed negative stereotype about gypsies, weren't necessarily problematic in the first place), and indeed in a great many conversations outside this forum I've had with identified feminists, there's a general consensus that the solution of the problem is to actually create pressures such that the people who make the problematic media don't make it anymore, and, given that they've gone as far as criticizing highly niche and unknown media for the littlest details, this really means "get rid of it all".

So...

[Individuality-ness]

May I be direct with you for a moment?

Actually, screw the asking, I'll do it anyways.

When I was a little kid, someone in my extended family gave my brother and I a VHS copy of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We loved that movie, we watched it quite often. If I had a VHS player today, I'd still be playing it. The VHS copy is currently sitting in front of me on my dresser, still in its original packaging.

I checked out a large anthology of fairy tales by the Brother's Grimm from the public library. I perused that every single day for a week, and then I went back and reread them again. Some of my favorite stories from that one include their version of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty.

I love Shakespeare. Some of the most enjoyable plays that I've read yet was The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, and The Taming of the Shrew.

As a feminist, I am also aware that they are problematic. But I am aware of their problematic-ness, and I acknowledge it.

Just because we see problems doesn't mean we want to ban it. I would want kids to read Shakespeare, read fairy tales, watch Disney movies, etc. It's part of our culture. But I want to teach them that this are all just archetypes, that there are other options out there, and that they need not be a princess/prince Charming to find happiness.

That's it. Teach them.

I will say that feminism in general could really do some more to make that position clearer, honestly. The actual point of "teach them" was only brought up in the last couple of pages of this entire thread, where before that only the problematic nature of the works were discussed (even in situations where the displays, like that supposed negative stereotype about gypsies, weren't necessarily problematic in the first place), and indeed in a great many conversations outside this forum I've had with identified feminists, there's a general consensus that the solution of the problem is to actually create pressures such that the people who make the problematic media don't make it anymore, and, given that they've gone as far as criticizing highly niche and unknown media for the littlest details, this really means "get rid of it all".

So...

It would be nice if people would STOP making problematic media, yes. But we can work with what we have, and this is "teach people that this isn't the default archetype". The media isn't a substitute for decent parenting, after all.