Are Disney Movies Bad for Children?

[Rumostan]

Do you think that children should be encased in glass until they are 18? Not everything is bad for children. D you think that most parents or children care about what they watch? These are for children, not for adults who are bored and want to find all of the parts they could be seen as racist or sexist or anti women.

I have already answered all of these questions and assertions. I am curious as to why you think any of these questions or assertions (even disregarding the answers & rebuttals already given) is relevant or cogent to this discussion.

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like it then don't reply. My opinion as been stated but you appear to be trying to shoot it down.

[Ifreann]

I have already answered all of these questions and assertions. I am curious as to why you think any of these questions or assertions (even disregarding the answers & rebuttals already given) is relevant or cogent to this discussion.

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like it then don't reply. My opinion as been stated but you appear to be trying to shoot it down.

It's called a discussion.

[St James]

Can't we all just enjoy a good cartoon without searching for racial undertones?

[Electroconvulsive Glee]

I have already answered all of these questions and assertions. I am curious as to why you think any of these questions or assertions (even disregarding the answers & rebuttals already given) is relevant or cogent to this discussion.

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like it then don't reply. My opinion as been stated but you appear to be trying to shoot it down.

Your opinion without explanation -- let alone supporting logic or facts -- is essentially worthless. It also seems to miss the main point of the thread and is therefore irrelevant.

Your rhetorical questions and untrue, bold assertions do not actually support your "opinion," have been answered already, do not respond to my post, and are also not relevant to the main point of this thread.

Yes, I am "trying to shoot [] down" your opinion as wrong and irrelevant. I explained why in direct response to you. I have elaborated at extensive length several times in this thread in response to similar opinions. When and if you have actual replies to my arguments, you should post them. Then you will actually being engaged in debate or discussion.

[Blekksprutia]

snip

Oh, my God. That is unhealthy to read.

[Electroconvulsive Glee]

Can't we all just enjoy a good cartoon without searching for racial undertones?

Answered. And again. And again.

[Albul]

Disney misrepresents the working class in the Lion King Cinderella, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and in Snow White.

Not everyone in the working class is a dwarf, whistles while they work, or a hyena.

[Ifreann]

Disney misrepresents the working class in the Lion King Cinderella, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and in Snow White.

Not everyone in the working class is a dwarf, whistles while they work, or a hyena.

Very good, dear.

[Forsakia]

I think that's because the cast is comprised of an English group on an expedition to Africa, and Tarzan, who I believe was raised by gorillas due to his birth parents (from Europe) being killed.

And?

To an extent, you prove my point. Also, this does not explain the complete absence of anyone who is not English in Africa.

It explains it because it's set in an uninhabited, uncharted, place (which certainly exists in Africa). A lot of the characterisation of Tarzan (going back to the source material) is that he was raised with no contact with other humans. It's both plausible and necessary for the story (of course you could argue that they could have gone with him being discovered by natives a la the Jungle book, but that inherent example undermines the argument itself).

(Plenty of disney films have racial issues etc, some down to the time they were written in, some down to a tendency to make characters exaggerated and one-note in childrens film-making, they're usually going from old source material that comes with its own baggage and in some cases over analysis, but tbh I don't think Tarzan's a major example of that).


EDIT: could also nitpick a few others. For example in Aladdin the most anglicised character is Jafar who exists in the tradition of educated English accented evil bosses, as does Scar. Rather than the evil implications the uneducated/underling ones would be more relevant for your argument. Oliver and Company they are all thieves and the chihuahua is far from the only one to talk about stealing, in the jungle book I'm not sure how clear the relationship to ethnicity is. If Baloo was played by a black voice actor rather than a white one would we talk about it perpetuating stereotypes of black=lazy etc.

(I agree with your overarching point, but can't resist nit-picking).

[Rumostan]

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like it then don't reply. My opinion as been stated but you appear to be trying to shoot it down.

Your opinion without explanation -- let alone supporting logic or facts -- is essentially worthless. It also seems to miss the main point of the thread and is therefore irrelevant.

Your rhetorical questions and untrue, bold assertions do not actually support your "opinion," have been answered already, do not respond to my post, and are also not relevant to the main point of this thread.

Yes, I am "trying to shoot [] down" your opinion as wrong and irrelevant. I explained why in direct response to you. I have elaborated at extensive length several times in this thread in response to similar opinions. When and if you have actual replies to my arguments, you should post them. Then you will actually being engaged in debate or discussion.

You are being incredibly priggish, if you don't want to discuss anything the. Why are you even commenting? Don't be so rude as to not allow people to voice their opinions, we (most of us) do live in a free country.

[Rumostan]

I am giving my opinion, if you don't like it then don't reply. My opinion as been stated but you appear to be trying to shoot it down.

It's called a discussion.

I will have a discussion but I will not have people being incredibly rude, there is no need for it and most people would probably not want it.

[Jehuddah]

Why, OLD Disney movies are wonderful.

Seriously... what do you want the heroes to be, overweight african gay and ugly? Fuck this politically correctness, what's wrong with not-overwight non-Black straight and good-looking protagonist? How is that un-educative?

[Ifreann]

It's called a discussion.

I will have a discussion...

Hop to it, then.

---

Seriously... what do you want the heroes to be, overweight african gay and ugly?

That you think this is undesirable only further supports the point that these movies are bad for children.

[Jehuddah]

The classic Disney princesses are all dangerously underweight.

Seriously?! The creators didn't make them fat. so?

Protagonists of both genders are beautiful, supporting characters are strange looking and villains are ugly or monstrous. This clearly sends the wrong message about appearance. Villains are always darker in colour than the heroes as well. Even on the rare occasion heroes are not white they are always lighter skinned than the villains.

Those are movies, get fucking over it.

[Rumostan]

Why, OLD Disney movies are wonderful.

Seriously... what do you want the heroes to be, overweight african gay and ugly? Fuck this politically correctness, what's wrong with not-overwight non-Black straight and good-looking protagonist? How is that un-educative?

I think that the heroes could change but I don't think that they should be overweight. Some people seem to think that the Disney films will effect a child's life and that means that a child might want to look like their hero. Now who wants an overweight child?

[Ifreann]

The classic Disney princesses are all dangerously underweight.

Seriously?! The creators didn't make them fat. so?

Failing to see the middle ground between "dangerously underweight" and "fat"? Very unhealthy.

Protagonists of both genders are beautiful, supporting characters are strange looking and villains are ugly or monstrous. This clearly sends the wrong message about appearance. Villains are always darker in colour than the heroes as well. Even on the rare occasion heroes are not white they are always lighter skinned than the villains.

Those are movies, get fucking over it.

Why does it upset you that people are actually analysing and thinking about movies?

[United commonwealth of ayrshire]

The lessons to be learnes from the films are wrong. For instance:
1. Aladdin: he starts the film Arab and poor, and is rich at the end with white skin.
2. Little Mermaid: Apparently if there is a man who is especially handsome/unique, a girl should sacrifice everything in an attempt to make him like her.
3. Beauty And The Beast: Belle clearly displays Stockolm Syndrome…
4. Cinderella: if people come up to you and say they are your fairy godmother and they will help you, you should trust them entirely.

[Jehuddah]

Seriously?! The creators didn't make them fat. so?

Failing to see the middle ground between "dangerously underweight" and "fat"? Very unhealthy.

The protagonists are mostly thin, yes. But not "dangerously thin" though.
Most of humanity is thin, your point?

[Jehuddah]

The lessons to be learnes from the films are wrong. For instance:
1. Aladdin: he starts the film Arab and poor, and is rich at the end with white skin.
2. Little Mermaid: Apparently if there is a man who is especially handsome/unique, a girl should sacrifice everything in an attempt to make him like her.
3. Beauty And The Beast: Belle clearly displays Stockolm Syndrome…
4. Cinderella: if people come up to you and say they are your fairy godmother and they will help you, you should trust them entirely.

Those are fucking movies, children don't think about those things.

[America Resurgent]

Okay, I was going to pick one of Electroconvulsive Glee's posts and respond to it, but I realized it'd actually be best to make a general response*.

Essentially: Whether or not a particular stereotype being shown in a movie is actually reinforcing a negative stereotype is ridiculously, ridiculously context dependent and cannot be answered with "yes" or "no". Why? Because, well, how often has there been that much gypsy hate in America, despite that post EG made about the one character that was a stereotype of a Romani individual (and yes, I know that's predominantly a European problem--that's my point)? Hell, forget problems that never hit our regions--how much of an assertion has there ever been in modern-day america that Asians follow the stereotypes often placed upon them in movies about, for example, feudal China or Japan?

And with women, frankly, there is no slack that Disney really needs to pick up, because strong women are in a lot of places in the media. Perhaps, if you cherry-pick a few old works, you might find some weaker types. But they're a niche.

*Okay, one response to a specific post: How in the hell do you get racism from a movie where the characters aren't even human? (The Lion King)?

[Ifreann]

Failing to see the middle ground between "dangerously underweight" and "fat"? Very unhealthy.

The protagonists are mostly thin, yes. But not "dangerously thin" though.

Have you looked at some of the Disney princesses? They'd have to gain weight to be dangerously thin.

Most of humanity is thin, your point?

My point is that you are displaying an unhealthy attitude to weight, all while insisting that Disney movies aren't bad for children. You're kinda defeating your own argument.

[Jehuddah]

The protagonists are mostly thin, yes. But not "dangerously thin" though.

Have you looked at some of the Disney princesses? They'd have to gain weight to be dangerously thin.

Most of humanity is thin, your point?

My point is that you are displaying an unhealthy attitude to weight, all while insisting that Disney movies aren't bad for children. You're kinda defeating your own argument.

I watched Disney movies, but I don't know if it's because I'm a man. But I don't even know my weight, I SERIOUSLY don't care about those stuff.
Until you "noted" those stuff, I didn't even notice them.
Children don't think about those things, leave the movies alone.

[Rumostan]

Okay, I was going to pick one of Electroconvulsive Glee's posts and respond to it, but I realized it'd actually be best to make a general response*.

Essentially: Whether or not a particular stereotype being shown in a movie is actually reinforcing a negative stereotype is ridiculously, ridiculously context dependent and cannot be answered with "yes" or "no". Why? Because, well, how often has there been that much gypsy hate in America, despite that post EG made about the one character that was a stereotype of a Romani individual (and yes, I know that's predominantly a European problem--that's my point)? Hell, forget problems that never hit our regions--how much of an assertion has there ever been in modern-day america that Asians follow the stereotypes often placed upon them in movies about, for example, feudal China or Japan?

And with women, frankly, there is no slack that Disney really needs to pick up, because strong women are in a lot of places in the media. Perhaps, if you cherry-pick a few old works, you might find some weaker types. But they're a niche.

*Okay, one response to a specific post: How in the hell do you get racism from a movie where the characters aren't even human? (The Lion King)?

I agree but I would also like to add that it is this political correctness culture in society today that is causing this. No one would have cared unless people brought this up, it has happened in other areas of society. I mean if you want to complain then there was something about Homer from the Simpsons being a negative stereotype for men!

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The lessons to be learnes from the films are wrong. For instance:
1. Aladdin: he starts the film Arab and poor, and is rich at the end with white skin.
2. Little Mermaid: Apparently if there is a man who is especially handsome/unique, a girl should sacrifice everything in an attempt to make him like her.
3. Beauty And The Beast: Belle clearly displays Stockolm Syndrome…
4. Cinderella: if people come up to you and say they are your fairy godmother and they will help you, you should trust them entirely.

Those are fucking movies, children don't think about those things.

Former child development major and nanny (or, as some would have it, "manny") here, one raised by two professors of psychology. Currently working on the sidelines of the entertainment industry, with an eye towards writing and producing original content. I also helped to raise two of my four little sisters before I moved out. Therefore, I do have some experience with how this shit works.

I can tell you without hesitation or reservation that children do not think about these things...and that's the problem. They accept these images as how life works without criticism or thought. Therefore, it is up to the adults to engage with children so as to ensure that they're not learning unhealthy lessons, and the best way to do that is to be aware of both the text and the subtext of what they are watching...to ensure that they DO think about what they're watching, and whether or not they agree with it. Constant exposure to certain tropes in popular media can and will create and reinforce said tropes in the minds of children, to the point where they see it as reality. Children are like sponges that way.

http://voices.yahoo.com/media-gender-st ... html?cat=7

[Ifreann]

Have you looked at some of the Disney princesses? They'd have to gain weight to be dangerously thin.

My point is that you are displaying an unhealthy attitude to weight, all while insisting that Disney movies aren't bad for children. You're kinda defeating your own argument.

I watched Disney movies, but I don't know if it's because I'm a man. But I don't even know my weight, I SERIOUSLY don't care about those stuff.

Your posts suggest otherwise.

Until you "noted" those stuff, I didn't even notice them.
Children don't think about those things,

And yet, you were influenced by these things. As children would be.

leave the movies alone.

Why? Why do you care if people analyse these movies? Why does it upset you?

---

Okay, I was going to pick one of Electroconvulsive Glee's posts and respond to it, but I realized it'd actually be best to make a general response*.

Essentially: Whether or not a particular stereotype being shown in a movie is actually reinforcing a negative stereotype is ridiculously, ridiculously context dependent and cannot be answered with "yes" or "no". Why? Because, well, how often has there been that much gypsy hate in America, despite that post EG made about the one character that was a stereotype of a Romani individual (and yes, I know that's predominantly a European problem--that's my point)? Hell, forget problems that never hit our regions--how much of an assertion has there ever been in modern-day america that Asians follow the stereotypes often placed upon them in movies about, for example, feudal China or Japan?

And with women, frankly, there is no slack that Disney really needs to pick up, because strong women are in a lot of places in the media. Perhaps, if you cherry-pick a few old works, you might find some weaker types. But they're a niche.

*Okay, one response to a specific post: How in the hell do you get racism from a movie where the characters aren't even human? (The Lion King)?

I agree but I would also like to add that it is this political correctness culture in society today that is causing this. No one would have cared unless people brought this up, it has happened in other areas of society. I mean if you want to complain then there was something about Homer from the Simpsons being a negative stereotype for men!

No one would have cared about children being harmed by watching Disney movies if not for this thread? Then thank the gods this thread was made.