Are Disney Movies Bad for Children?

[Occupied Deutschland]

You know what I'm starting to think is bad for children?

All these so-called 'specialists' and 'professionals' running around inventing new ways for parents to fear raising their own kids without one of these people holding their hands through the process, creating situations where kids are no longer free to be kids, are saddled with adult issues and worries and problems at too young an age to actually understand and comprehend the why of it all, and in the end, bringing them up in an atmosphere of mistrust, fear, and dependency.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of the whole business.

I am not entirely sure how this rant fits in with this topic, but to the extent it does it is troubling at best.

Should we stick our heads in the sand? We should ignore potentially harmful influences on children (like messages that teach them to mistrust or fear people based on stereotypes)? We should simply stop studying child development and education? What exactly are you complaining about or suggesting?

Sometimes a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is JUST a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is the impression I got, and that people walking on eggshells over issues such as the waist size on their daughter's favorite heroine isn't good for the child's development.

[Bottle]

Good point, although you skipped over the stage of denials of racism and sexism in Disney movies.

Also, "here's some characters that are not racist or sexist" does not rebut the notion that the movies they appear in may contain racism or sexism.

Despite my earlier statement re sexism, I am not going to bother to argue whether every single Disney movie is in some way racist or sexist. The point is racist and sexist images and messages are ubiquitous in Disney movies. That does not mean they are all "bad" or that any should be banned or censored. It may mean we should continue to expect better from Disney (and other media sources) and it may mean we should take measures such as discussing such messages with children if they watch such movies.

You're right, I did skip over that point, though I think that "It doesn't matter/You're reading too much into it" is the more common counterargument, and a more insidious one.

And I never saw this as being a call for censorship on your part, or the part of anyone else. It's just that when pointing out the numerous things that a company is doing wrong, it can be helpful to point out what they're doing right as a foundation for constructive change.

Quite true. I favor the "More Of This, Please" approach.

Although frankly I think there's only one piece of advice that Disney needs to take in order to completely fix this issue: every script should be written, in full, and then the gender of every single character should be swapped at the last minute just before production begins. If the story suddenly seems ridiculous with the genders swapped, then it should be thrown out entirely and the writers sacked.

[Bottle]

that people walking on eggshells over issues such as the waist size on their daughter's favorite heroine isn't good for the child's development.

Who's doing that?

[Britcan]

That's because they are cartoon characters drawn in a certain style, of course they don't look realistic.

Every single one is drawn in the same style and are otherwise realistic.

What? Have you seen the size of their eyes? They are clearly stylised drawings of people they don't look realistic at all.

Mulan?

Specifically created because of this concern

They realised that their characters weren't being active enough so they changed something? I fail to see how that is a bad thing.

Which, in the time periods the movies are set in, isn't unusual.

But kids won't understand that.

Then tell them about it. Teaching your children about history is a good thing.

It's not going to make them get married young because by the time they are teenagers Disney movies aren't a major influence and they know more about the time periods when the movies are set.

.
Quasimodo was a hero wasn't he?

I assume you are referring to skin tone?
Pocahontas was darker than Governor Ratcliffe, Esmeralda was darker than Frollo, Tarzan was darker than Clayton.

I guess there are always exceptions.

Yes, numerous ones. If there are many exceptions to a rule, it's not a good rule.

[Individuality-ness]

You're right, I did skip over that point, though I think that "It doesn't matter/You're reading too much into it" is the more common counterargument, and a more insidious one.

And I never saw this as being a call for censorship on your part, or the part of anyone else. It's just that when pointing out the numerous things that a company is doing wrong, it can be helpful to point out what they're doing right as a foundation for constructive change.

Quite true. I favor the "More Of This, Please" approach.

Although frankly I think there's only one piece of advice that Disney needs to take in order to completely fix this issue: every script should be written, in full, and then the gender of every single character should be swapped at the last minute just before production begins. If the story suddenly seems ridiculous with the genders swapped, then it should be thrown out entirely and the writers sacked.

Races too. Disney movies as a whole are quite racist.

[Bottle]

Quite true. I favor the "More Of This, Please" approach.

Although frankly I think there's only one piece of advice that Disney needs to take in order to completely fix this issue: every script should be written, in full, and then the gender of every single character should be swapped at the last minute just before production begins. If the story suddenly seems ridiculous with the genders swapped, then it should be thrown out entirely and the writers sacked.

Races too. Disney movies as a whole are quite racist.

Oh, for the race angle the solution is even simpler: for every character's skin tone, a color wheel is randomly spun.

[Khadgar]

I am not entirely sure how this rant fits in with this topic, but to the extent it does it is troubling at best.

Should we stick our heads in the sand? We should ignore potentially harmful influences on children (like messages that teach them to mistrust or fear people based on stereotypes)? We should simply stop studying child development and education? What exactly are you complaining about or suggesting?

Obviously the solution is that nobody should point out racism, sexism, or any other problematic elements in media, and certainly nobody should ever analyze children's media and then report on their findings. Instead, we should all put our babies in the tub and then proceed to throw said infants out along with the bubbles and suds.

Problem solved!

You know, parents go stupid worrying over everything their precious children consume. Except of course entertainment. Just plop 'em in front of the TV. Don't go questioning kids shows now, or you're being overly analytical and ruining the fun.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You're right, I did skip over that point, though I think that "It doesn't matter/You're reading too much into it" is the more common counterargument, and a more insidious one.

And I never saw this as being a call for censorship on your part, or the part of anyone else. It's just that when pointing out the numerous things that a company is doing wrong, it can be helpful to point out what they're doing right as a foundation for constructive change.

Quite true. I favor the "More Of This, Please" approach.

Although frankly I think there's only one piece of advice that Disney needs to take in order to completely fix this issue: every script should be written, in full, and then the gender of every single character should be swapped at the last minute just before production begins. If the story suddenly seems ridiculous with the genders swapped, then it should be thrown out entirely and the writers sacked.

I agree. Unless, of course, gender roles are essential to the storyline, as in "Mulan".

[Luziyca]

Are Jimmy Savile's shows bad for children?

What possible relevance could this have?

Well, they are not bad to the average viewer. Thus, based on that, films from Disney are not bad for the average child.

[Individuality-ness]

Races too. Disney movies as a whole are quite racist.

Oh, for the race angle the solution is even simpler: for every character's skin tone, a color wheel is randomly spun.

That would help a LOT. But then we have the other "tell-tale" signs, like slanted eyes and whatever, and nuances that's written into the script.

[Khadgar]

Quite true. I favor the "More Of This, Please" approach.

Although frankly I think there's only one piece of advice that Disney needs to take in order to completely fix this issue: every script should be written, in full, and then the gender of every single character should be swapped at the last minute just before production begins. If the story suddenly seems ridiculous with the genders swapped, then it should be thrown out entirely and the writers sacked.

I agree. Unless, of course, gender roles are essential to the storyline, as in "Mulan".

Just reset it to an amazonian AU. Problem solved.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I agree. Unless, of course, gender roles are essential to the storyline, as in "Mulan".

Just reset it to an amazonian AU. Problem solved.

Oh, I see. That works. Okay.

[Ifreann]

I am not entirely sure how this rant fits in with this topic, but to the extent it does it is troubling at best.

Should we stick our heads in the sand? We should ignore potentially harmful influences on children (like messages that teach them to mistrust or fear people based on stereotypes)? We should simply stop studying child development and education? What exactly are you complaining about or suggesting?

Sometimes a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is JUST a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is the impression I got, and that people walking on eggshells over issues such as the waist size on their daughter's favorite heroine isn't good for the child's development.

Indeed, there's few things that'll doom your daughter more than stopping to think(aka "walking on eggshells") about whether she is learning that beauty = goodness = physically impossible thinness. You may as well put arsenic in her bottle.

---

What possible relevance could this have?

Well, they are not bad to the average viewer. Thus, based on that, films from Disney are not bad for the average child.

That doesn't follow at all.

[Ethel mermania]

Oh, for the race angle the solution is even simpler: for every character's skin tone, a color wheel is randomly spun.

That would help a LOT. But then we have the other "tell-tale" signs, like slanted eyes and whatever, and nuances that's written into the script.

yes clearly all the racies and sexes should be portrayed as white males with the exact same body type and eye color because of racism, sexism, body dysmorphia ete etc etc

[Neo Art]

Sometimes a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is JUST a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is the impression I got, and that people walking on eggshells over issues such as the waist size on their daughter's favorite heroine isn't good for the child's development.

Indeed, there's few things that'll doom your daughter more than stopping to think(aka "walking on eggshells") about whether she is learning that beauty = goodness = physically impossible thinness. You may as well put arsenic in her bottle.

It's almost like he believes that children are actually capable of thinking.

Perish the motherfucking thought.

[Khadgar]

Just reset it to an amazonian AU. Problem solved.

Oh, I see. That works. Okay.

It'd be different anyway.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Sometimes a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is JUST a cartoonish megalomaniacal villain is the impression I got, and that people walking on eggshells over issues such as the waist size on their daughter's favorite heroine isn't good for the child's development.

Indeed, there's few things that'll doom your daughter more than stopping to think(aka "walking on eggshells") about whether she is learning that beauty = goodness = physically impossible thinness. You may as well put arsenic in her bottle.

I would assume (most) children are capable of separating cartoon character's traits from real character traits (be they related to body type or behavioral patterns), and that many of those not capable of such are incapable of understanding much more than pretty colors moving on a screen.

Children aren't idiots.

[Individuality-ness]

Indeed, there's few things that'll doom your daughter more than stopping to think(aka "walking on eggshells") about whether she is learning that beauty = goodness = physically impossible thinness. You may as well put arsenic in her bottle.

I would assume (most) children are capable of separating cartoon character's traits from real character traits (be they related to body type or behavioral patterns), and that many of those not capable of such are incapable of understanding much more than pretty colors moving on a screen.

Children aren't idiots.

And then we get five and six year olds dieting because they think that they're too fat, and 13 and 14 year olds with eating disorders.

[Neo Art]

Indeed, there's few things that'll doom your daughter more than stopping to think(aka "walking on eggshells") about whether she is learning that beauty = goodness = physically impossible thinness. You may as well put arsenic in her bottle.

I would assume (most) children are capable of separating cartoon character's traits from real character traits (be they related to body type or behavioral patterns), and that many of those not capable of such are incapable of understanding much more than pretty colors moving on a screen.

Children aren't idiots.

They are, however, children, and your belief that children transition magically from "completely unaware of their surroundings beyond pretty colors" and "completely able to fully conceptualize and understand the difference between animated fiction and actual reality" as it's a switch being flipped is, frankly, profoundly stupid.

[Occupied Deutschland]

I would assume (most) children are capable of separating cartoon character's traits from real character traits (be they related to body type or behavioral patterns), and that many of those not capable of such are incapable of understanding much more than pretty colors moving on a screen.

Children aren't idiots.

And then we get five and six year olds dieting because they think that they're too fat, and 13 and 14 year olds with eating disorders.

Which are in the vast minority. It's undoubtedly an issue, but the onus is on parents for not clarifying how fictional portrayals work, not the company making those fictional portrayals. I wouldn't hold Simon & Schuster as a 'bad guy' for printing Where the Wild Things Are if my son decided to bite somebody because of influence from that book.

[Ifreann]

Indeed, there's few things that'll doom your daughter more than stopping to think(aka "walking on eggshells") about whether she is learning that beauty = goodness = physically impossible thinness. You may as well put arsenic in her bottle.

I would assume (most) children are capable of separating cartoon character's traits from real character traits (be they related to body type or behavioral patterns), and that many of those not capable of such are incapable of understanding much more than pretty colors moving on a screen.

Children aren't idiots.

Oh, I'm sure children are generally capable of understanding that just because the princess is thin and beautiful doesn't mean that they have to be thin to be beautiful. But for them to understand this, someone would have to teach them, most likely a parent, which would involve mounting those eggshells and thinking about the lessons one's child might be learning from the movies they watch.

[Neo Art]

I would assume (most) children are capable of separating cartoon character's traits from real character traits (be they related to body type or behavioral patterns), and that many of those not capable of such are incapable of understanding much more than pretty colors moving on a screen.

Children aren't idiots.

Oh, I'm sure children are generally capable of understanding that just because the princess is thin and beautiful doesn't mean that they have to be thin to be beautiful. But for them to understand this, someone would have to teach them, most likely a parent, which would involve mounting those eggshells and thinking about the lessons one's child might be learning from the movies they watch.

You mean, the way to be an actual responsible parent is to recognize the lessons we teach our children may be harmful, may be subconciously creating generational perceptions of beauty, race, and gender, and to address those with our children?

I thought the way to be a parent is to complain about how all these damned "experts" were telling us how to raise OUR children, and things were so much better before we had all these "experts" telling us what to do.

You know, back in those glory "good old days". Like, you know, these:

[Nailed to the Perch]

Storytime!

A while back, I was hanging out with my cousin's adorable daughter, M, who was about 4 at the time. We were playing with her Disney princess dolls, and she was making up elaborate (and very cute) stories about them. At one point in the story, several of the princesses were sent to jail. Their crime? "Not being pretty."

(It should be noted, incidentally, that the supposedly "not pretty" princesses corresponded quite well to the "not eligible for membership in the KKK" princesses.)

I asked if, before they went to jail, they could have a trial, and M agreed. As their "lawyer," I argued that, first of all, they were all very pretty in their own ways, because prettiness comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes and colors, and second of all, it didn't matter if they were pretty because they were good, kind, brave people, and that was much more important than being pretty. M thought about this (making a super cute "pensive" face while she did so) and concluded that this was a good argument and that all of the princesses should be set free. "Hooray!" I said. "Hooray!" she said, too, and gave Mulan a victory hug.

I cannot fathom the mentality of the people who think that, instead of taking this opportunity to talk to her about body image in age-appropriate ways, I should have just let M imprison all the brown girls, because THINKING IS HARD, YO.

[Luziyca]

Well, they are not bad to the average viewer. Thus, based on that, films from Disney are not bad for the average child.

That doesn't follow at all.

Let me explain.

If the average child is exposed to Disney films, they will not have harmful influences from such films, for they will just see it as fiction: a story. Some may see it as an ideal, a perfect world, but at the end of the day, it is fiction.

Same with Jim'll Fix it, except it is real, but it is quite difficult to get "dreams to come true" using it.

[Neo Art]

Storytime!

A while back, I was hanging out with my cousin's adorable daughter, M, who was about 4 at the time. We were playing with her Disney princess dolls, and she was making up elaborate (and very cute) stories about them. At one point in the story, several of the princesses were sent to jail. Their crime? "Not being pretty."

(It should be noted, incidentally, that the supposedly "not pretty" princesses corresponded quite well to the "not eligible for membership in the KKK" princesses.)

Amusingly how we both made a KKK reference back to back.

Isn't it remarkably telling that the vast, vast, VAST majority of the time, the people complaining about how we don't let "kids be kids" these days, and how things were "better" before all these "elitist experts" got involved....

are almost always white?

Shocking, it's always the white people who pine for the simplicity of "better days"