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How should the United States handle illegal immigration?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How should the U.S. handle illegal immigration? (Choose the option that matches your view best)

Deport all illegal immigrants (they came illegally) and increase the size of the border patrol.
65
37%
Deport all illegal immigrants with criminal records. Grant amnesty to the rest, but increase the size of the border patrol to ensure that illegal immigration doesn't become such a large problem again.
72
40%
Amnesty to all. OPEN BORDERS!
41
23%
 
Total votes : 178

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:03 am

Ifreann wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
By definition, it IS, thus the "Illegally" part. :palm:

Not everything that is against the law is a crime.


By definition it is. The word you are looking for is "wrong".
Hail Satan!
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:15 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Not everything that is against the law is a crime.


By definition it is. The word you are looking for is "wrong".


It isn't even a criminal crime on a criminal court.

It belongs to the civil courts if you are in the country already (being in the country illegally is a civil offense), and most border patrol officers just send you back to Mexico if they catch you (which, mind you, is the criminal offense, trespassing illegally), hence it isn't as criminal as you make it sound.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:15 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Not everything that is against the law is a crime.


By definition it is.

No, it isn't.
The word you are looking for is "wrong".

I assure you, the word I am looking for is crime.

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:21 am

Ifreann wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
By definition it is.

No, it isn't.
The word you are looking for is "wrong".

I assure you, the word I am looking for is crime.

Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
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Gallup
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Postby Gallup » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:21 am

Deport all illegal immigrants (they came illegally) and increase the size of the border patrol.
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.92
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Have you seen Evita? Best musical ever.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:21 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, it isn't.

I assure you, the word I am looking for is crime.

Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.


I could have posted far worse than that.
Hail Satan!
Happily married to Roan Cara, The first RL NS marriage, and Pope Joan is my Father-in-law.
I edit my posts to fix typos.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:22 am

Ifreann wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
By definition it is.

No, it isn't.
The word you are looking for is "wrong".

I assure you, the word I am looking for is crime.


You are right, it's not a crime.

Criminality is settled in a criminal court of law. However, illegally being here is dealt with CIVIL law, which isn't a "crime". You broke a civil law, not a criminal one, therefore it cannot be a crime.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:22 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.


I could have posted far worse than that.

I do not doubt that for a minute.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:23 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, it isn't.

I assure you, the word I am looking for is crime.

Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.

I figured he meant letting migrants join him on the range, the better to familiarise themselves with US culture. I'm sure Jim would never advocate murdering 11 million people.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:23 am

Gallup wrote:Deport all illegal immigrants (they came illegally) and increase the size of the border patrol.


And how would you determine who is and who isn't an illegal immigrant?

Because I assure you, AZ is doing a shitty job at it.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:24 am

Gallup wrote:Deport all illegal immigrants (they came illegally)

Not strictly true. Being in the US illegally doesn't mean you came to the US illegally.
and increase the size of the border patrol.

I can't imagine you'll have any money left for that after the cost of deporting all the illegal immigrants...

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Farnhamia
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Posts: 111671
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:25 am

Ifreann wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.

I figured he meant letting migrants join him on the range, the better to familiarise themselves with US culture. I'm sure Jim would never advocate murdering 11 million people.

Yes, that must be it. Naturalized good guys with guns. Silly me. And Zweite Alaje was giving them swimming lessons.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Gallup
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Posts: 6162
Founded: Jan 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Gallup » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:25 am

Ifreann wrote:
Gallup wrote:Deport all illegal immigrants (they came illegally)

Not strictly true. Being in the US illegally doesn't mean you came to the US illegally.
and increase the size of the border patrol.

I can't imagine you'll have any money left for that after the cost of deporting all the illegal immigrants...

Move some around from the defense budget.
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.92
NSG's Official Hero of Kvatch and Prophet of NSG
Have you seen Evita? Best musical ever.
╔═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong Argonian maid ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no Nord ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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Zweite Alaje
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Postby Zweite Alaje » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:25 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, it isn't.

I assure you, the word I am looking for is crime.

Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.

Stop crying. You're just angry you couldn't use the mods to silence our opinions.
Geist über Körper, durch Aktionen Ehrung
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Modern Feminism
I've been: Communist , Fascist
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.18

NIFP
Please don't call me Zweite, Al or Ally is fine. Add 2548 posts, founded Oct 06, 2011

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Farnhamia
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Posts: 111671
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:26 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Why are you debating with someone who suggested "target practice" as a way to handle the problem? Oh, wait, he's a Known Smart-Ass, that makes it okay.

Stop crying. You're just angry you couldn't use the mods to silence our opinions.

I admit I'm annoyed that you didn't get warned for saying we should hunt down millions of people and throw them in the ocean. Well, never mind.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Gallup
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Posts: 6162
Founded: Jan 27, 2013
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Postby Gallup » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:27 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Zweite Alaje wrote:Stop crying. You're just angry you couldn't use the mods to silence our opinions.

I admit I'm annoyed that you didn't get warned for saying we should hunt down millions of people and throw them in the ocean. Well, never mind.

I can't find where he said that. Could you link me to it?
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.92
NSG's Official Hero of Kvatch and Prophet of NSG
Have you seen Evita? Best musical ever.
╔═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong Argonian maid ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no Nord ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╝

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:29 am

Zweite Alaje wrote:I agree with kicking them all out. Toss them all into the middle of the Pacific.


For you Gallup :p
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Gallup
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Founded: Jan 27, 2013
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Postby Gallup » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:29 am

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Zweite Alaje wrote:I agree with kicking them all out. Toss them all into the middle of the Pacific.


For you Gallup :p

Looks like a joke to me.
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.92
NSG's Official Hero of Kvatch and Prophet of NSG
Have you seen Evita? Best musical ever.
╔═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong Argonian maid ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no Nord ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╝

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Big Jim P
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Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:30 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I figured he meant letting migrants join him on the range, the better to familiarise themselves with US culture. I'm sure Jim would never advocate murdering 11 million people.

Yes, that must be it. Naturalized good guys with guns. Silly me. And Zweite Alaje was giving them swimming lessons.


The ones from Mexico can already swim. ;)
Hail Satan!
Happily married to Roan Cara, The first RL NS marriage, and Pope Joan is my Father-in-law.
I edit my posts to fix typos.

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Big Jim P
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55158
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:31 am

Gallup wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
For you Gallup :p

Looks like a joke to me.


The real funny part is the over-reaction it caused.
Hail Satan!
Happily married to Roan Cara, The first RL NS marriage, and Pope Joan is my Father-in-law.
I edit my posts to fix typos.

User avatar
Gallup
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Founded: Jan 27, 2013
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Postby Gallup » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:33 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Gallup wrote:Looks like a joke to me.


The real funny part is the over-reaction it caused.

Yeah. :p
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.92
NSG's Official Hero of Kvatch and Prophet of NSG
Have you seen Evita? Best musical ever.
╔═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong Argonian maid ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no Nord ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╝

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159013
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:34 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I figured he meant letting migrants join him on the range, the better to familiarise themselves with US culture. I'm sure Jim would never advocate murdering 11 million people.

Yes, that must be it. Naturalized good guys with guns. Silly me. And Zweite Alaje was giving them swimming lessons.

Of course. Someone with such a high regard for the rule of law would never propose so grossly illegal an action as executing millions for something that is not a crime by dropping them in the ocean.
Last edited by Ifreann on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gallup
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Posts: 6162
Founded: Jan 27, 2013
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Postby Gallup » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:34 am

Ifreann wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Yes, that must be it. Naturalized good guys with guns. Silly me. And Zweite Alaje was giving them swimming lessons.

Of course. Someone with such a high regard for the rule of law would never propose so grossly illegal an action as executing millions for something that is not a crime by dropping them in the ocean.

Get over it. It was a joke.
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.92
NSG's Official Hero of Kvatch and Prophet of NSG
Have you seen Evita? Best musical ever.
╔═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong Argonian maid ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no Nord ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚═════════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ════════════════╝

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:34 am

Gallup wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
The real funny part is the over-reaction it caused.

Yeah. :p


I'm just messing around at this point.

Seriously, I spent an entire month gathering data to debate a bit seriously somewhere else. I hope never to see it again, but I did learn a lot about illegal immigration :lol:
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159013
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:36 am

Gallup wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Of course. Someone with such a high regard for the rule of law would never propose so grossly illegal an action as executing millions for something that is not a crime by dropping them in the ocean.

Get over it. It was a joke.

No, I don't think it was at all. Regardless, highlighting Alaje's hypocrisy is my own little joke, so perhaps you ought to consider taking your own advice, hmm?

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