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Ad hominems and NSG

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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:40 pm

Luveria wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Smoking (like Alcohol) should be banned. It's causes cancer.

So you want prohibition round two.

Vazdania wrote:and they are still better than a socialist system :)

There have been socialist countries like that. The USSR comes to mind.

Genivaria wrote:Why do you hate freedom?

Freedom is a godless liberal construct.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:It causes cancer. Boohoohoo. I don't give a fuck. You can't ban everything because someone might hurt themselves. What kind of nanny state are you talking about? A world without beer or cigarettes is one I would hate.

Too much sunlight causes cancer.

Uh, can I politely ask to not debate prohibition in my thread? I'm not a mod, but I don't want to see this threadjacked.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:41 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Why do you hate freedom?

The better questions are: Why does he hate fun? Why does he hate himself? Why does he hate everything good in the world?

But yeah, freedom too.


Hate myself?? :eyebrow: Hate everything good in the world??? :eyebrow:
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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:41 pm

2nd Baron of Moyne wrote:
Orcoa wrote:I'm male of course and....well I never had a Ad hominem thrown at me before really.

I guess either I'm not poking someone enough in a debate to warrant that or I'm just a nice guy :)


You are so devastating handsome that you pose a serious risk to the aesthetic calibration of the people who see you, leaving them unable to find any beauty in lesser apparitions much as those who stare into the sun become blind.

Therefore your argument is wrong. Jerk.

Thank you

I am dead sexy :p
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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:41 pm

Coffee Cakes wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:This stems from a discussion of misogyny and a Facebook discussion.

Okay. Now for the big question. What is the worst thing that someone has ever called you on NS? What is the worst ad hominem that you've ever received from your opponents in a debate here?

Also, I'd like to know what your gender is.

After answering this question, please see the second spoiler as to why I'm asking you this question.

In my experience it's been feminazi, slut, selfish whore, harlot, bitch, nutjob, closet FtM trans*, man-hater, unemployed warrior feminist... amongst others.

This still wins as the worst ad hominem I've ever gotten though. Long story short: someone took the time to find a really old photograph of me, Photoshopped it to make it look like there was cum on my face, and then used that picture to imply that I was a slut and a harlot, with a side of abduction and rape. Lovely.

The person I was talking to, a former male NSer, gave me this list: naive, foaming-at-the-mouth because I can't handle scientific research over personal anecdotes, blind, unimaginative, mushy fence sitter, elitist fucktard, closet conservative.
Why am I asking you this question?

Basically, I'm curious about the types of ad hominem that one uses on a perceived opponent, and how it relates to gender. I get the feeling that when people perceive me as female, they start attacking my sexuality, my gender identity, and others, while for males, people tend to focus on their perceived character traits.

Example (that isn't me): In a discussion on philosophers (and I'm using this loosely here), Ayn Rand is often attacked on how ugly she is, and how no man ever really wants to fuck her. I know, I've done this in the past myself. In comparison, male philosophers are critiqued as idiotic, naive, or an array of other things that have nothing to do with their looks or sexual desirability.

Not trying to say that it sucks less for guys, but I'm curious to see whether there is a connection to gender and the ad homs used. I get the feeling that it is, but NSG, your thoughts?

Back when I used to debate (yes, there was a time...) I never had any ad-homs thrown at me... at least none I remember.
Worst thing I've ever received I got a kick out of, actually... in a debate over the Wisconsin debacle, Geniasis at one point told me he'd "never seen anybody cast aside their credibility so gleefully."

Also... dude checking in.

Hey Cakes, you actually came to post in a thread I OPed. :D
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:42 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:Abatael's great america - no freedom of religion, people are murdered because of their sexuality, racism is rampant - oh, wait.
There are already countries like that.

and they are still better than a socialist system :)

I don't know... I hate to say this, but if I had to pick between Iran or Sweden, I very well might choose Sweden... Well, yeah, actually, I definitely would, because I'm Christian.
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Bojikami
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bojikami » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:43 pm

I've been called Ruskie, Freedom hating pig (because I don't exactly like America), commie, psychopath, and pretty much every insult in the book.
Last edited by Bojikami on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:43 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Coffee Cakes wrote:Back when I used to debate (yes, there was a time...) I never had any ad-homs thrown at me... at least none I remember.
Worst thing I've ever received I got a kick out of, actually... in a debate over the Wisconsin debacle, Geniasis at one point told me he'd "never seen anybody cast aside their credibility so gleefully."

Also... dude checking in.

Hey Cakes, you actually came to post in a thread I OPed. :D

Cakes posting in a thread that is not the chat thread?

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Oh, yeah. I've gotten Nazi plenty of times. The combined German-ness and pro-authoritarianism usually does it.
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The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Antares XII
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Postby Antares XII » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Choronzon wrote:Simply insulting someone is not an ad hominem.

Saying 'You're wrong for reasons x, y, and z you fucking moron," is not an ad hominem, its just being a dick. Saying "You're an idiot therefore you're wrong," is an ad hominem.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine.


I guess that answers my question, then.

I don't get a lot of hate most of the time, just derision. My ideas are... less than popular, I guess, but I'm low-key enough that I mostly get snide dismissals instead of outright attacks.

Also, because this seems to be relevant, I'm biologically male but do not identify as such. So... yeah.
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Rich and Corporations
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Postby Rich and Corporations » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 pm

I have become so well regarded on the internets that all typical ad hominems are a step above my nickname.
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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Oh, yeah. I've gotten Nazi plenty of times. The combined German-ness and pro-authoritarianism usually does it.

Plus the smell of sauerkraut does not help either
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This is the song I sing to those who screw with me XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnFhnpEgKY
"this is the Internet: The place where religion goes to die." Crystalcliff Point

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Coffee Cakes
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Postby Coffee Cakes » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Coffee Cakes wrote:Back when I used to debate (yes, there was a time...) I never had any ad-homs thrown at me... at least none I remember.
Worst thing I've ever received I got a kick out of, actually... in a debate over the Wisconsin debacle, Geniasis at one point told me he'd "never seen anybody cast aside their credibility so gleefully."

Also... dude checking in.

Hey Cakes, you actually came to post in a thread I OPed. :D


I cannot lie, I've been reading the thread, and it seemed to interesting to not give my penny's worth. :hug:

Orcoa wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Hey Cakes, you actually came to post in a thread I OPed. :D

Cakes posting in a thread that is not the chat thread?

THE END IS NIGH


Surely... now fear me Orcoa :twisted: ... or not. :p
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Posting mod mistakes now are we?

Well, sir, you can have a Vindictive warning for making us look incompetent
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Geniasis wrote:I've seen people lose credibility. It's been a while since I've seen it cast aside so gleefully.
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 pm

Orcoa wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Oh, yeah. I've gotten Nazi plenty of times. The combined German-ness and pro-authoritarianism usually does it.

Plus the smell of sauerkraut does not help either

Reubens are good, damnit!
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The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Forsher
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Forsher wrote:Definitely. There are so many posts that read as, "I can't handle dissenting opinions, ban 'em all" these days that it's ridiculous.

With regards to that last bit... I know much less about the MRM and MRAs than I do about feminism but they are more organisational things than feminism which is much more a cultural force. I am not sure how clear that is but it makes sense to me.

It's dumb. I want discussion. Just, please be more civil about it and be willing to listen to the other side and we can talk.

I get you actually. I understand it.


Discussion is about exchanging ideas and not categorical rejection of ideas.
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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 pm

Coffee Cakes wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Hey Cakes, you actually came to post in a thread I OPed. :D

I cannot lie, I've been reading the thread, and it seemed to interesting to not give my penny's worth. :hug:

:hug: Any opinion on whether some of the ad homs of choice are gender based though?
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 pm

Coffee Cakes wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Hey Cakes, you actually came to post in a thread I OPed. :D


I cannot lie, I've been reading the thread, and it seemed to interesting to not give my penny's worth. :hug:

Orcoa wrote:Cakes posting in a thread that is not the chat thread?

THE END IS NIGH


Surely... now fear me Orcoa :twisted: ... or not. :p

I always had a thought that behind that nice, almost midwestern face that you have on this website....

You are in fact Darkseid

Image
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This is the song I sing to those who screw with me XD

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 pm

Rich and Corporations wrote:I have become so well regarded on the internets that all typical ad hominems are a step above my nickname.

I love you corporations!!! :kiss:

Image
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:48 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Orcoa wrote:Plus the smell of sauerkraut does not help either

Reubens are good, damnit!

MMmmmm reubens.....
Long Live The Wolf Emperor!
This is the song I sing to those who screw with me XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnFhnpEgKY
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Coffee Cakes
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Postby Coffee Cakes » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:48 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Coffee Cakes wrote:I cannot lie, I've been reading the thread, and it seemed to interesting to not give my penny's worth. :hug:

:hug: Any opinion on whether some of the ad homs of choice are gender based though?


I don't doubt some ad-homs are gender based, but I chalk it up to usual internet asshattery.
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Posting mod mistakes now are we?

Well, sir, you can have a Vindictive warning for making us look incompetent
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:48 pm

Libertarian California wrote:
Vazdania wrote:and they are still better than a socialist system :)


I dunno...I'd rather live under socialism than in Iran.

I concur, Iran is full of Ayatollahs!
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Coffee Cakes
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Postby Coffee Cakes » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:49 pm

Orcoa wrote:
Coffee Cakes wrote:
I cannot lie, I've been reading the thread, and it seemed to interesting to not give my penny's worth. :hug:



Surely... now fear me Orcoa :twisted: ... or not. :p

I always had a thought that behind that nice, almost midwestern face that you have on this website....

You are in fact Darkseid

Image


Aw drat, I got found out. :p
Transnapastain wrote:CC!

Posting mod mistakes now are we?

Well, sir, you can have a Vindictive warning for making us look incompetent
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:You're Invisi Gay. Super hero of the Rainbow Equality Brigade!
Nana wrote:Being CC's bf is a death worse than fate.
Nana wrote:Finally, another reasonable individual.
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Geniasis wrote:I've seen people lose credibility. It's been a while since I've seen it cast aside so gleefully.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:49 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Libertarian California wrote:
I dunno...I'd rather live under socialism than in Iran.

I concur, Iran is full of Ayatollahs!

eh...if it were Saudi Arabia...I could dig it.
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Scorpions on the moon
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Postby Scorpions on the moon » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:50 pm

An ad hominem is not necessarily an insult. It is an argument based on the personality of the person you are debating in order to establish a conclusion. For instance, you are a bitch, therefore gay marriage should not be legal. Calling somebody a bitch on its own is not an ad hominem. It's just verbal abuse.

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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:50 pm

Forsher wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:It's dumb. I want discussion. Just, please be more civil about it and be willing to listen to the other side and we can talk.

I get you actually. I understand it.

Discussion is about exchanging ideas and not categorical rejection of ideas.

Exactly. Otherwise, it's just a playground piss-off fight.
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Forsher
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:50 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Smoking (like Alcohol) should be banned. It's causes cancer.

It causes cancer. Boohoohoo. I don't give a fuck. You can't ban everything because someone might hurt themselves. What kind of nanny state are you talking about? A world without beer or cigarettes is one I would hate.


The fundamental difference between alcohol and tobacco is that the latter is necessarily harmful to other people. The general rule is that people have rights insofar as they do not infringe on other people's rights.

Individuality-ness wrote:
Forsher wrote:Discussion is about exchanging ideas and not categorical rejection of ideas.

Exactly. Otherwise, it's just a playground piss-off fight.


One annoying example of this was, basically, "I think a rational conversation with you will be impossible", "I think your model of behaviour is flawed, here's why", "Green isn't your colour." It's seriously like what?

Note, the first and last are by one person and the middle by another.
Last edited by Forsher on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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