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What Is The Republican Path To Victory?

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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:20 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:Actually, it goes well beyond THAT.

Republicans favor applying rural gun laws to CITIES in order to make life more convenient for RURAL Americans. Quite specifically, Republicans who advocate for lax gun law EVERYWHERE feel that rural gun owners from Wyoming or Texas ought to be able to travel anywhere (including into Downtown Chicago or Manhattan) without having to worry about whether the local gun laws in these places they visit are any different from the ones they face back home.

They quite literally have no regard for the wishes of the people who live in the places they visit; from their perspective, as random travellers and guests, they shouldn't have to change their behavior one jot. The world should be optimized for the sake of RURAL citizens, and to Hell with anybody else.

Closely connected with this is the belief that high crime rates ALWAYS coincide with tight gun laws. You can see this the aforementioned comments: The posters take it for granted that Detroit has the tightest gun laws in the country, and when you point out to them that this is not in fact the case (Michigan State law prohibits municipalities from regulating firearms in any fashion whatsoever), they scream "YOU LIE!!!", as though their perception of reality — which cannot POSSIBLY be wrong — is all that really matters. "Don't contradict my opinions with your so-called 'facts'; my opinions outweigh anything you might tell me."

This further reinforces their belief that casual visitors to America's cities have a right to be armed to the teeth, even where local opinion and custom would dictate otherwise. From the perspective of pro-gun Republicans, it is a matter of the fundamental right to self-defense; cities are crime ridden cesspools, and it is immoral to expect anybody to go down there with anything less than a full combat arsenal, ready for war and backed by laws permitting them to shoot on sight if "threatened".

So it's not just the rural-urban divide; it's rural perceptions of urban life and the belief that the Nation should be legally organized in such a way as to maximize the safety, security, and convenience of rural citizens, with no concern whatsoever for the needs or desires of those animals who live in our cities (who, to be perfectly honest, should probably not be allowed to vote anyway, not being Genuine Americans™ to begin with).

ADDENDUM: And just wait until the take things to the next level: Gun ownership and carriage as a fundamental human right across the planet. Several Republican politicians have already made noises about how the U.S. should use its power and influence to "persuade" other nations all around the world to recognize American-style gun rights. Today, America; tomorrow, the world.

Speaking as someone who shares that general philosophy, you're rather dramatically mischaracterizing it, ASB. One could just as easily (and I'd argue more correctly) point to it as a desire to see urbanites provided the same rights and privileges as their rural cousins in regards to carrying a firearm for self-defense. Promotion of training in such weapons usage therefore would be a primary component, and hence invite a nationally recognized standard of training which permitted one the right to carry a firearm in public for the purpose of self-defense.

To extend it (and this is where Republicans in large part might jump off) applying harsher gun laws to urban (and predominantly poor) districts is targeting specific groups to have less access to a right just as pushes for voter ID and such targets specific groups to have less access to a right. If a white farmer in Oklahoma takes a class which the government says qualifies him to carry a firearm in public areas, I see no reason why a black man in downtown Chicago shouldn't be afforded the same privilege. States haven't been able to agree on a training standard (or, more specifically, certain states have instituted much harsher standards than wide swathes of the country) which do impact travelers to those areas. But more importantly than that is how unfair they are to the citizens of that area, as they are being specifically denied access to a right because 'Oh, "urban areas" (read: poor/minority areas) have such crime problems'. The Democrats sideways speech on this is just as transparent as the Republicans.

Edit: And the Republicans jump on the latter topic in terms of the unfairness. They just don't apply it to urban race or class because...well...they're Republicans.
Last edited by Occupied Deutschland on Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:26 pm

Blakk Metal wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:ADDENDUM: And just wait until the take things to the next level: Gun ownership and carriage as a fundamental human right across the planet. Several Republican politicians have already made noises about how the U.S. should use its power and influence to "persuade" other nations all around the world to recognize American-style gun rights. Today, America; tomorrow, the world.

Really?

Think about the great export opportunities for American gun manufacturers! It's clear which lobby whispered this adorable little suggestion in the ears of the Republican party.
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Postby Blakk Metal » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:26 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:
Blakk Metal wrote:Really?

Newt Gingrich was the first to go down this path. Of course, Newt isn't really to be taken seriously, but since then I've seen a smattering of Republican (who apparently never got the memo about Newt) pick up the banner and run with it.

Some things are only a matter of time...

I want a source.

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Postby European Socialist Republic » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:32 pm

Blakk Metal wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:Newt Gingrich was the first to go down this path. Of course, Newt isn't really to be taken seriously, but since then I've seen a smattering of Republican (who apparently never got the memo about Newt) pick up the banner and run with it.

Some things are only a matter of time...

I want a source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R07gcUhKKGc
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Alien Space Bats
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Re: What Is The Republican Path To Victory?

Postby Alien Space Bats » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:50 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:Speaking as someone who shares that general philosophy, you're rather dramatically mischaracterizing it, ASB. One could just as easily (and I'd argue more correctly) point to it as a desire to see urbanites provided the same rights and privileges as their rural cousins in regards to carrying a firearm for self-defense. Promotion of training in such weapons usage therefore would be a primary component, and hence invite a nationally recognized standard of training which permitted one the right to carry a firearm in public for the purpose of self-defense.

To extend it (and this is where Republicans in large part might jump off) applying harsher gun laws to urban (and predominantly poor) districts is targeting specific groups to have less access to a right just as pushes for voter ID and such targets specific groups to have less access to a right. If a white farmer in Oklahoma takes a class which the government says qualifies him to carry a firearm in public areas, I see no reason why a black man in downtown Chicago shouldn't be afforded the same privilege. States haven't been able to agree on a training standard (or, more specifically, certain states have instituted much harsher standards than wide swathes of the country) which do impact travelers to those areas. But more importantly than that is how unfair they are to the citizens of that area, as they are being specifically denied access to a right because 'Oh, "urban areas" (read: poor/minority areas) have such crime problems'. The Democrats sideways speech on this is just as transparent as the Republicans.

Edit: And the Republicans jump on the latter topic in terms of the unfairness. They just don't apply it to urban race or class because...well...they're Republicans.

Funny, but I don't see a lot of concern by Republicans over any OTHER aspect of urban life; they don't seem to care if the trash gets picked up, the snow gets cleared, street lights work, there are police on the streets, people have jobs and a way to get to them without getting snarled up in hours of traffic. But they do, apparently, care enough for city dwellers as to want to see them all armed.

Sorry, OD, but my gut tells me that the only reason most Republicans want to see city dwellers armed is in hopes that they'll shoot each other.

And I'm also touched over how much concern they have over the right of the poor to have guns. Jobs, housing, transportation, the vote (as you observe) not so much — but guns, yeah: Bring it on!

It's also disingenuous to suggest that a racist desire to disarm minorities is what fuels urban Democrats' support for gun legislation; after all, polls tell us that urban minority voters THEMSELVES support tighter restrictions on firearm ownership. Interestingly enough, they don't support seeing their voting rights curtailed; so maybe urban minorities don't harbor racism towards themselves to quite the extent you suggest, eh?

Finally — and I don't know why this seems like such a bizarre concept — most people look at heavily populated areas brimming with crowds and think "target-rich environment". But clearly, that sort of thinking has NOTHING in the world to do with urban perceptions of the value of gun control, now does it?
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Postby Nigerian Kenya » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:08 pm

looks like Boehner is starting to realize the Republican party needs to move to the left on social issues:

Washington (CNN) – House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes the GOP should support the party's openly gay candidates.

"I do," he said when asked by CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash if he backs such House hopefuls.



His answer comes as a GOP congressman from Virginia is pressuring a national Republican campaign group to withhold financial support for the party's gay candidates.

Rep. Randy Forbes has been trying to persuade the National Republican Congressional Committee not to back gay Republican House candidates. The story was first reported by Politico, and confirmed by CNN.

The NRCC is tasked with recruiting and helping to elect candidates, as well as incumbents, to the House every two years. For part of its financial substance, it collects millions of dollars in membership dues from incumbent lawmakers.

In next year's midterm elections, there are two openly gay GOP candidates who are well positioned to challenge Democratic incumbents. Richard Tisei, a former state lawmaker who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in 2012, is running again for a Massachusetts seat.

In San Diego, former city councilman Carl DeMaio is challenging Democratic Rep. Scott Peters. DeMaio ran for San Diego mayor last year, but lost to the now-disgraced Democrat Bob Filner, who resigned after facing a barrage of sexual harassment claims.

Both candidates would have to face primaries before being guaranteed a spot on the November general election ballot. But if they do win their respective primaries, they've been widely praised as potential pick-ups for the GOP in the House. Rep. Patrick McHenry, who serves as the NRCC's top recruiter, has touted both as top-tier candidates.

The NRCC backed Tisei last year with $1.6 million, so they have a history of supporting openly gay candidates.

"Our decisions on the Republican nominees we support will not be based on race, gender or sexual orientation but will be based on the strength of their candidacy and their ability to defeat Democrats," said Rep. Greg Walden of Oregon, the chairman of the NRCC.

Forbes did not question the NRCC's support of Tisei in the last cycle. There's been speculation that Forbes is just now bringing the issue up because he's aiming for the chairmanship of the House Armed Services Committee–and that he also hasn't paid his NRCC dues yet.

Those members who chair committees, or are seeking to gain top posts on committees, are expected to contribute to the party's effort to re-elect Republicans and expand the number of GOP members in the House.

In a statement to CNN, Forbes said "the definition of marriage is an issue with widely divergent opinions passionately held by both sides."

"This is true of the Republican Party, as it is of society as a whole," he continued. "Our goal is to make certain every individual has the right to express his or her belief, while no one is compelled to support financially or otherwise, those who disagree with them. It is my belief that we are trying to strike this balance and we will continue to work to accomplish this goal."

Forbes has raised more than $136,000 for the NRCC this year and "will continue to offer his support" to expand the GOP's majority in the House, according to his spokesman.

The recent dust-up comes as more Republican lawmakers have toned down their opposition to–or have expressed outright support for–gay rights issues and same-sex marriage in the last couple of years.

Asked about Forbes opposition to NRCC money for gay candidates, McHenry–the GOP group's top recruiter–disagreed with his colleague.

"If you are a top notch candidate you deserve the support of our party infrastructure and what we need to do is get the best candidates to return Republican seats back to Republican hands," he said Thursday. "My agenda is to field Republican candidates who can beat Democrats, who can be good members of Congress and help solve the nation's problems."

While Boehner's comments made headlines Thursday, some were skeptical of his answer.

“Talk is cheap – it does little good to support gay candidates if you’re willing to fire gay Americans,” Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney, an openly gay Democratic Congressman from New York.

“If he really does believe in equality, Speaker Boehner should stop blocking the bipartisan Employment Non-Discrimination Act and bring it to the House floor for a vote," he continued. "So we can say once and for all that Americans should only be judged by the work that they do, not who they are or who they love.”


Unfortunately, Iowa may not agree...Santorum is competitive in the latest iowa caucus poll. (Harper, Nov. 23-24):

Christie 17, Cruz 16, Paul 13, Santorum 11, Ryan 9, Walker 7, Rubio 6, Jindal 3, Other/Undecided 17

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Postby Othelos » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:52 pm

Nigerian Kenya wrote:looks like Boehner is starting to realize the Republican party needs to move to the left on social issues:

Washington (CNN) – House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes the GOP should support the party's openly gay candidates.

...


Unfortunately, Iowa may not agree...Santorum is competitive in the latest iowa caucus poll. (Harper, Nov. 23-24):

Christie 17, Cruz 16, Paul 13, Santorum 11, Ryan 9, Walker 7, Rubio 6, Jindal 3, Other/Undecided 17

I'm kind of hoping that Republicans nominate Santorum.

He'll never win the presidential election.
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:38 pm

Othelos wrote:
Nigerian Kenya wrote:looks like Boehner is starting to realize the Republican party needs to move to the left on social issues:



Unfortunately, Iowa may not agree...Santorum is competitive in the latest iowa caucus poll. (Harper, Nov. 23-24):

Christie 17, Cruz 16, Paul 13, Santorum 11, Ryan 9, Walker 7, Rubio 6, Jindal 3, Other/Undecided 17

I'm kind of hoping that Republicans nominate Santorum.

He'll never win the presidential election.

I have doubts about all of them, except if Christie can do a good job of convincing people he's a "moderate", even though his policies really aren't moderate.
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Freiheit Reich
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:49 pm

Nigerian Kenya wrote:looks like Boehner is starting to realize the Republican party needs to move to the left on social issues:

Washington (CNN) – House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes the GOP should support the party's openly gay candidates.

"I do," he said when asked by CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash if he backs such House hopefuls.



His answer comes as a GOP congressman from Virginia is pressuring a national Republican campaign group to withhold financial support for the party's gay candidates.

Rep. Randy Forbes has been trying to persuade the National Republican Congressional Committee not to back gay Republican House candidates. The story was first reported by Politico, and confirmed by CNN.

The NRCC is tasked with recruiting and helping to elect candidates, as well as incumbents, to the House every two years. For part of its financial substance, it collects millions of dollars in membership dues from incumbent lawmakers.

In next year's midterm elections, there are two openly gay GOP candidates who are well positioned to challenge Democratic incumbents. Richard Tisei, a former state lawmaker who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in 2012, is running again for a Massachusetts seat.

In San Diego, former city councilman Carl DeMaio is challenging Democratic Rep. Scott Peters. DeMaio ran for San Diego mayor last year, but lost to the now-disgraced Democrat Bob Filner, who resigned after facing a barrage of sexual harassment claims.

Both candidates would have to face primaries before being guaranteed a spot on the November general election ballot. But if they do win their respective primaries, they've been widely praised as potential pick-ups for the GOP in the House. Rep. Patrick McHenry, who serves as the NRCC's top recruiter, has touted both as top-tier candidates.

The NRCC backed Tisei last year with $1.6 million, so they have a history of supporting openly gay candidates.

"Our decisions on the Republican nominees we support will not be based on race, gender or sexual orientation but will be based on the strength of their candidacy and their ability to defeat Democrats," said Rep. Greg Walden of Oregon, the chairman of the NRCC.

Forbes did not question the NRCC's support of Tisei in the last cycle. There's been speculation that Forbes is just now bringing the issue up because he's aiming for the chairmanship of the House Armed Services Committee–and that he also hasn't paid his NRCC dues yet.

Those members who chair committees, or are seeking to gain top posts on committees, are expected to contribute to the party's effort to re-elect Republicans and expand the number of GOP members in the House.

In a statement to CNN, Forbes said "the definition of marriage is an issue with widely divergent opinions passionately held by both sides."

"This is true of the Republican Party, as it is of society as a whole," he continued. "Our goal is to make certain every individual has the right to express his or her belief, while no one is compelled to support financially or otherwise, those who disagree with them. It is my belief that we are trying to strike this balance and we will continue to work to accomplish this goal."

Forbes has raised more than $136,000 for the NRCC this year and "will continue to offer his support" to expand the GOP's majority in the House, according to his spokesman.

The recent dust-up comes as more Republican lawmakers have toned down their opposition to–or have expressed outright support for–gay rights issues and same-sex marriage in the last couple of years.

Asked about Forbes opposition to NRCC money for gay candidates, McHenry–the GOP group's top recruiter–disagreed with his colleague.

"If you are a top notch candidate you deserve the support of our party infrastructure and what we need to do is get the best candidates to return Republican seats back to Republican hands," he said Thursday. "My agenda is to field Republican candidates who can beat Democrats, who can be good members of Congress and help solve the nation's problems."

While Boehner's comments made headlines Thursday, some were skeptical of his answer.

“Talk is cheap – it does little good to support gay candidates if you’re willing to fire gay Americans,” Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney, an openly gay Democratic Congressman from New York.

“If he really does believe in equality, Speaker Boehner should stop blocking the bipartisan Employment Non-Discrimination Act and bring it to the House floor for a vote," he continued. "So we can say once and for all that Americans should only be judged by the work that they do, not who they are or who they love.”


Unfortunately, Iowa may not agree...Santorum is competitive in the latest iowa caucus poll. (Harper, Nov. 23-24):

Christie 17, Cruz 16, Paul 13, Santorum 11, Ryan 9, Walker 7, Rubio 6, Jindal 3, Other/Undecided 17


Christie is anti-Libertarian and therefore anti-freedom. He is a poor choice, so are Santorum, Rubio, and Walker:

http://damien.net/?p=2002

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http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... n-populism
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Nigerian Kenya
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Postby Nigerian Kenya » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:11 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Nigerian Kenya wrote:looks like Boehner is starting to realize the Republican party needs to move to the left on social issues:



Unfortunately, Iowa may not agree...Santorum is competitive in the latest iowa caucus poll. (Harper, Nov. 23-24):

Christie 17, Cruz 16, Paul 13, Santorum 11, Ryan 9, Walker 7, Rubio 6, Jindal 3, Other/Undecided 17


Christie is anti-Libertarian and therefore anti-freedom. He is a poor choice, so are Santorum, Rubio, and Walker:

http://damien.net/?p=2002

http://www.greenewave.com/chris-christi ... n-remarks/

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... n-populism

Christie has the best chance to beat Clinton, look at the polls. He would be a good, moderate nominee. His reelection campaign clearly stated that he can make inroads among hispanics, african-americans, women, and young voters. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Christie is their best option. If Christie doesn't run, then I'd go with Jeb Bush. A popular & moderate former governor in a swing state that the GOP cannot win the white house without (FL) with no ties to the tea party. Judging from results in other places in his family line, he'd probably help more than harm with hispanics and moderate voters.

I agree that Santorum would be a bad choice, and Rubio (until he proves he has 40% support among hispanics) and Walker (until he proves he's not the next pawlenty as far as republican presidential politics go) are merely O.K.

But, who would be your GOP nominee of choice? It doesn't have to be someone who was included in that poll.

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Postby Canadian Davsland » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:14 pm

Simple. QUIT AND GIVE UP. The odds are stacked up against the them.
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Nigerian Kenya
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Postby Nigerian Kenya » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:19 pm

Canadian Davsland wrote:Simple. QUIT AND GIVE UP. The odds are stacked up against the them.

The topic concerns a path to victory, not a path to destruction.

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The Godly Nations
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Postby The Godly Nations » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:22 pm

Easy, secretly purchase the Greens, pump them with money, and split the Democratic Vote.

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Postby Mavorpen » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:28 pm

Nigerian Kenya wrote:Christie has the best chance to beat Clinton, look at the polls. He would be a good, moderate nominee. His reelection campaign clearly stated that he can make inroads among hispanics, african-americans, women, and young voters. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Christie is their best option. If Christie doesn't run, then I'd go with Jeb Bush. A popular & moderate former governor in a swing state that the GOP cannot win the white house without (FL) with no ties to the tea party. Judging from results in other places in his family line, he'd probably help more than harm with hispanics and moderate voters.

I agree that Santorum would be a bad choice, and Rubio (until he proves he has 40% support among hispanics) and Walker (until he proves he's not the next pawlenty as far as republican presidential politics go) are merely O.K.

But, who would be your GOP nominee of choice? It doesn't have to be someone who was included in that poll.

It's funny that people think Christie is a moderate.

I hope he does run, so that people can see him for the right-wing conservative he actually is, rather than the fantasy moderate people think he is.
Last edited by Mavorpen on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Godly Nations
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Postby The Godly Nations » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:31 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Nigerian Kenya wrote:Christie has the best chance to beat Clinton, look at the polls. He would be a good, moderate nominee. His reelection campaign clearly stated that he can make inroads among hispanics, african-americans, women, and young voters. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Christie is their best option. If Christie doesn't run, then I'd go with Jeb Bush. A popular & moderate former governor in a swing state that the GOP cannot win the white house without (FL) with no ties to the tea party. Judging from results in other places in his family line, he'd probably help more than harm with hispanics and moderate voters.

I agree that Santorum would be a bad choice, and Rubio (until he proves he has 40% support among hispanics) and Walker (until he proves he's not the next pawlenty as far as republican presidential politics go) are merely O.K.

But, who would be your GOP nominee of choice? It doesn't have to be someone who was included in that poll.

It's funny that people think Christie is a moderate.

I hope he does run, so that people can see him for the right-wing conservative he actually is, rather than the fantasy moderate people think he is.


Romney was a kind of moderate...then he tried at the presidency, and went more and more right.

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Postby Mavorpen » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:39 pm

The Godly Nations wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:It's funny that people think Christie is a moderate.

I hope he does run, so that people can see him for the right-wing conservative he actually is, rather than the fantasy moderate people think he is.


Romney was a kind of moderate...then he tried at the presidency, and went more and more right.

Romney, from a belief standpoint, wasn't a moderate. His beliefs were right-wing conservative plain and simple. The thing is, the primaries gave him the perfect field where he could say all of the crazy shit he believed and go even further with them. Because, that's what the primaries were for: who can say the most extreme shit and get the most applause?

Christie would almost definitely fall prey to the same problem and lose face among the general voters.
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The Godly Nations
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Postby The Godly Nations » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:42 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The Godly Nations wrote:
Romney was a kind of moderate...then he tried at the presidency, and went more and more right.

Romney, from a belief standpoint, wasn't a moderate. His beliefs were right-wing conservative plain and simple. The thing is, the primaries gave him the perfect field where he could say all of the crazy shit he believed and go even further with them. Because, that's what the primaries were for: who can say the most extreme shit and get the most applause?

Christie would almost definitely fall prey to the same problem and lose face among the general voters.


Romney's performance as Governor in his state indicated that he was a moderate, but that he shifted right to appeal to the greater Republican base, not that he was originally a ultra right winger, who had to repress himself until his time to shine.

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Postby Mavorpen » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:46 pm

The Godly Nations wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Romney, from a belief standpoint, wasn't a moderate. His beliefs were right-wing conservative plain and simple. The thing is, the primaries gave him the perfect field where he could say all of the crazy shit he believed and go even further with them. Because, that's what the primaries were for: who can say the most extreme shit and get the most applause?

Christie would almost definitely fall prey to the same problem and lose face among the general voters.


Romney's performance as Governor in his state indicated that he was a moderate, but that he shifted right to appeal to the greater Republican base, not that he was originally a ultra right winger, who had to repress himself until his time to shine.

...What performance suggested that?

Contrary to what he claimed, he didn't "reach across the aisle." His healthcare plan was the brainchild of a right-wing conservative organization. He was staunchly against abortion during his term as governer. He was against gay rights.

Do I need to go on?
Last edited by Mavorpen on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nigerian Kenya
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Postby Nigerian Kenya » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:53 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The Godly Nations wrote:
Romney's performance as Governor in his state indicated that he was a moderate, but that he shifted right to appeal to the greater Republican base, not that he was originally a ultra right winger, who had to repress himself until his time to shine.

...What performance suggested that?

Contrary to what he claimed, he didn't "reach across the aisle." His healthcare plan was the brainchild of a right-wing conservative organization. He was staunchly against abortion during his term as governer. He was against gay rights.

Do I need to go on?

Not to mention Romney's record in massachusetts is mixed at best. While it's true he worked with democrats on health care, he largely failed to do so on other issues. While he did generate budget surpluses in his final two years as governor, he was unable to pass these surpluses onto his successor, Democrat Deval Patrick. He only legalized gay marriage because the court forced him to. He moved to the right on abortion during his time as governor. And he spent his last year in office laying groundwork for his campaign for president in 2008 rather than tending to the affairs of the state of massachusetts, spending ~200 days out of the state while he visited early primary states and did fundraisers in preparation for the official beginning of his first presidential campaign in February 2007. Also, despite being moderately popular (~50% approval) during most of his term, his approval rating collapsed in his final months in office and he left office in January 2007 with an approval rating of about 35%.

Yes, it's true he moved to the right during the primary to outflank all the various flavor-of-the-month candidates that tried to take his place as the frontrunner. He was also the most 'centrist' person running for president in 2012 aside from Jon Huntsman. Among the field that ran in 2012, Romney was probably the best option the republicans had that had any remote chance of winning the nomination. But compare him to 2016 potentials Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, and yes, even Marco Rubio and Scott Walker, and he doesn't even come close.

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Capital Zealand
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Postby Capital Zealand » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:47 am

Get rid of authoritarians from the party, starting with Tea Party and continuing with openly condemning WBC.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:18 am

Nigerian Kenya wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Christie is anti-Libertarian and therefore anti-freedom. He is a poor choice, so are Santorum, Rubio, and Walker:

http://damien.net/?p=2002

http://www.greenewave.com/chris-christi ... n-remarks/

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... n-populism

Christie has the best chance to beat Clinton, look at the polls. He would be a good, moderate nominee. His reelection campaign clearly stated that he can make inroads among hispanics, african-americans, women, and young voters. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Christie is their best option. If Christie doesn't run, then I'd go with Jeb Bush. A popular & moderate former governor in a swing state that the GOP cannot win the white house without (FL) with no ties to the tea party. Judging from results in other places in his family line, he'd probably help more than harm with hispanics and moderate voters.

I agree that Santorum would be a bad choice, and Rubio (until he proves he has 40% support among hispanics) and Walker (until he proves he's not the next pawlenty as far as republican presidential politics go) are merely O.K.

But, who would be your GOP nominee of choice? It doesn't have to be someone who was included in that poll.


Christie is not moderate. he is extremely right wing. the only reason he still qualifies as conservative (and not reactionary) is that he wants government to work. wanting government to work is not moderate. its SANE.
whatever

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Cookie Clickers
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Postby Cookie Clickers » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:50 am

The Republicans should offer everyone a free Cookie if they vote for them. That would put them in for sure!
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Postby Farnhamia » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:59 am

Cookie Clickers wrote:The Republicans should offer everyone a free Cookie if they vote for them. That would put them in for sure!

That smacks of government handouts.
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Postby Divair » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:00 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Cookie Clickers wrote:The Republicans should offer everyone a free Cookie if they vote for them. That would put them in for sure!

That smacks of government handouts.

Did I hear somebody say communism?

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Postby Capital Zealand » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:19 am

Divair wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:That smacks of government handouts.

Did I hear somebody say communism?

Feed him to the alligators. Now!
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