What Is The Republican Path To Victory?

[Geilinor]

Haven't you read enough of this thread to understand the fallacy inherent in identity politics? If his views don't mesh with those of a majority of Hispanic voters (much less African-Americans), he won't do better among minorities than Romney did.

Here's the thing, though. Brown people lack the mental capacity to actually seriously understand issues; therefore, they make their voting decisions based on who looks most like them.

I'd have to agree on that being the logic. They think that minorities will simply vote for someone for being a minority.

[Maineiacs]

Haven't you read enough of this thread to understand the fallacy inherent in identity politics? If his views don't mesh with those of a majority of Hispanic voters (much less African-Americans), he won't do better among minorities than Romney did.

Here's the thing, though. Brown people lack the mental capacity to actually seriously understand issues; therefore, they make their voting decisions based on who looks most like them.

And as long as the GOP bases their strategy on that assumption (which some of them really seem to believe), they won't win. The TEA Party's warped definition of compromise as "making everyone else do things our way or we won't let anyone do anything" will cost them. But hey, if that's really the way they want to go, more power to them. Not only can I live with them reaping the fruits of that line of action, nothing would make me happier.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Here's the thing, though. Brown people lack the mental capacity to actually seriously understand issues; therefore, they make their voting decisions based on who looks most like them.

And as long as the GOP bases their strategy on that assumption (which some of them really seem to believe), they won't win. The TEA Party's warped definition of compromise as "making everyone else do things our way or we won't let anyone do anything" will cost them. But hey, if that's really the way they want to go, more power to them. Not only can I live with them reaping the fruits of that line of action, nothing would make me happier.

On the one hand, yeah.

On the other hand, them continuing to do so is merely legitimizing such beliefs in the eyes of a considerable number of people, which has rather unfortunate consequences for those minorities in the meanwhile.

[Blasveck]

And as long as the GOP bases their strategy on that assumption (which some of them really seem to believe), they won't win. The TEA Party's warped definition of compromise as "making everyone else do things our way or we won't let anyone do anything" will cost them. But hey, if that's really the way they want to go, more power to them. Not only can I live with them reaping the fruits of that line of action, nothing would make me happier.

On the one hand, yeah.

On the other hand, them continuing to do so is merely legitimizing such beliefs in the eyes of a considerable number of people, which has rather unfortunate consequences for those minorities in the meanwhile.

Well it's not like we have any alternatives.

It's not like we can ban the TP from having such ludicrous ideas.

[Uieurnthlaal]

Haven't you read enough of this thread to understand the fallacy inherent in identity politics? If his views don't mesh with those of a majority of Hispanic voters (much less African-Americans), he won't do better among minorities than Romney did.

Here's the thing, though. Brown people lack the mental capacity to actually seriously understand issues; therefore, they make their voting decisions based on who looks most like them.

Thank god you're joking there. For a moment, I thought...

[Maineiacs]

And as long as the GOP bases their strategy on that assumption (which some of them really seem to believe), they won't win. The TEA Party's warped definition of compromise as "making everyone else do things our way or we won't let anyone do anything" will cost them. But hey, if that's really the way they want to go, more power to them. Not only can I live with them reaping the fruits of that line of action, nothing would make me happier.

On the one hand, yeah.

On the other hand, them continuing to do so is merely legitimizing such beliefs in the eyes of a considerable number of people, which has rather unfortunate consequences for those minorities in the meanwhile.

Touché, but I don't see them willingly changing their assumptions anytime soon. It's likely take something similar to how the Dems were lost in the wilderness for more than a generation between the Civil War and World War I to affect that kind of paradigm shift.

[Saiwania]

I'd have to agree on that being the logic. They think that minorities will simply vote for someone for being a minority.

They're certainly not going to vote for a White person who doesn't give them "stuff." Isn't that what they really want, more government services and social programs instead of the conservative platform of lower taxes and rugged individualism?

[Blasveck]

I'd have to agree on that being the logic. They think that minorities will simply vote for someone for being a minority.

They're certainly not going to vote for a White person who doesn't give them "stuff." Isn't that what they really want, more government services and social programs instead of the conservative platform of lower taxes and rugged individualism?

Haven't you brought up this same argument time and again and been shot down time and again?

[ALMF]

Haven't you read enough of this thread to understand the fallacy inherent in identity politics? If his views don't mesh with those of a majority of Hispanic voters (much less African-Americans), he won't do better among minorities than Romney did.

Here's the thing, though. Brown people lack the mental capacity to actually seriously understand issues; therefore, they make their voting decisions based on who looks most like them.

or not

[Saiwania]

Haven't you brought up this same argument time and again and been shot down time and again?

They vote Democrat, so they must like something about the Democratic party's platform. If it isn't entitlements, I don't know what else it can possibly be. The Republican message just will not work for these people, so it needs a new one. Hopefully it won't be just copying what the Democratic party is doing.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Do as the Commies did...

[Girls und Nation]

Cookies. Lots and lots and lots of cookies.

[Mavorpen]

They vote Democrat, so they must like something about the Democratic party's platform. If it isn't entitlements, I don't know what else it can possibly be. The Republican message just will not work for these people, so it needs a new one. Hopefully it won't be just copying what the Democratic party is doing.

Probably has something to do with the fact that Democrats don't take every chance to make a racist comment against minorities.

[Avenio]

I don't know what else it can possibly be.

As has been proven in this thread over and over again, just because you can't fathom why people would vote a certain way doesn't mean that those reasons don't exist - it merely means that you're incapable of seeing any viewpoint but your own.

[Blasveck]

Haven't you brought up this same argument time and again and been shot down time and again?

They vote Democrat, so they must like something about the Democratic party's platform. If it isn't entitlements, I don't know what else it can possibly be. The Republican message just will not work for these people, so it needs a new one. Hopefully it won't be just copying what the Democratic party is doing.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised that you fail to understand the plight of the people who receive welfare in the first place, who, may I remind you, consist mostly of people who are unable to work in the first place. (i.e. the disabled and elderly)

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkb ... ix-charts/

3) Three-quarters of entitlement benefits written into law in the United States go toward the elderly or disabled. That's according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And a big chunk of the rest goes to working households. Only about 9 percent of all entitlement benefits go toward non-elderly, non-disabled households without jobs (and much of that involves health care and unemployment insurance)

CBPP notes that this ratio doesn't change if you include low-income discretionary programs (such as rental assistance or the Women, Infants and Children program) that have to be renewed each year.

Which, to get back on topic, is another issue the GOP has. It has a false perception of who receives welfare.

Unfortunately, so does a good portion of the American public.

[Mavorpen]

They vote Democrat, so they must like something about the Democratic party's platform. If it isn't entitlements, I don't know what else it can possibly be. The Republican message just will not work for these people, so it needs a new one. Hopefully it won't be just copying what the Democratic party is doing.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised that you fail to understand the plight of the people who receive welfare in the first place, who, may I remind you, consist mostly of people who are unable to work in the first place. (i.e. the disabled and elderly)

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkb ... ix-charts/

3) Three-quarters of entitlement benefits written into law in the United States go toward the elderly or disabled. That's according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And a big chunk of the rest goes to working households. Only about 9 percent of all entitlement benefits go toward non-elderly, non-disabled households without jobs (and much of that involves health care and unemployment insurance)

CBPP notes that this ratio doesn't change if you include low-income discretionary programs (such as rental assistance or the Women, Infants and Children program) that have to be renewed each year.

You know, I'm not even surprised that the racist (and it's not like I'm speculating he's a racist, he's actually admitted to being so) is also against welfare.

Research has shown that a lot of the hate for welfare coincides with the belief that the average person on welfare is a poor, uneducated black woman. And of course, that's bad for people like Saiwania. After all, how dare those unworthy darkies get assistance from money taken from those good, hardworking white people?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I'd have to agree on that being the logic. They think that minorities will simply vote for someone for being a minority.

They're certainly not going to vote for a White person who doesn't give them "stuff." Isn't that what they really want, more government services and social programs instead of the conservative platform of lower taxes and rugged individualism?

What, people with more melanin?

Despite numerous good faith efforts on the part of people to explain to you exactly what "they" want (by which I mean a statistically significant percentage of the population, not some groupthink as you seem to believe), you persist in having no clue whatsoever. Why, then, are you continuing to waste our time with this question?

[Saiwania]

What, people with more melanin?

Despite numerous good faith efforts on the part of people to explain to you exactly what "they" want, you persist in having no clue whatsoever. Why, then, are you continuing to waste our time with this question?

None of the explanations offered so far have satisfactorily explained why the current Republican platform can't work in an urban setting which is where minority voters will be more likely to be located. It takes a ton of money to build the infrastructure up but why does it get trashed in the first place? What is causing the blight which necessitates urban renewal? I get that Detroit went to crap after American domination of the automobile industry ended, but what about other big cities?

[Othelos]

What, people with more melanin?

Despite numerous good faith efforts on the part of people to explain to you exactly what "they" want, you persist in having no clue whatsoever. Why, then, are you continuing to waste our time with this question?

None of the explanations offered so far have satisfactorily explained why the current Republican platform can't work in an urban setting which is where minority voters will be more likely to be located. It takes a ton of money to build the infrastructure up but why does it get trashed in the first place? What is causing the blight which necessitates urban renewal? I get that Detroit went to crap after American domination of the automobile industry ended, but what about other big cities?

A lot of the reason why people don't vote Republican is because it's viewed as a party for the rich, whites, males, and Christians/conservatives.

Where is the proportion of poor people, minorities, irreligious, and liberals the highest? Cities, of course.

[Blasveck]

What, people with more melanin?

Despite numerous good faith efforts on the part of people to explain to you exactly what "they" want, you persist in having no clue whatsoever. Why, then, are you continuing to waste our time with this question?

None of the explanations offered so far have satisfactorily explained why the current Republican platform can't work in an urban setting which is where minority voters will be more likely to be located. It takes a ton of money to build the infrastructure up but why does it get trashed in the first place? What is causing the blight which necessitates urban renewal? I get that Detroit went to crap after American domination of the automobile industry ended, but what about other big cities?

Now, you see, the problem isn't that the Dems have failed (or not) within big cities.

It's that the Republicans have failed to offer any valid alternatives, instead resorting to just criticizing the way their opponents handled things, like in the case of Detroit.

Conservatives can bitch about how Dems ruined Detroit, though the problem is that they have no alternatives to fix it in the first place.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

None of the explanations offered so far have satisfactorily explained why the current Republican platform can't work in an urban setting which is where minority voters will be more likely to be located. It takes a ton of money to build the infrastructure up but why does it get trashed in the first place? What is causing the blight which necessitates urban renewal? I get that Detroit went to crap after American domination of the automobile industry ended, but what about other big cities?

Now, you see, the problem isn't that the Dems have failed (or not) within big cities.

It's that the Republicans have failed to offer any valid alternatives, instead resorting to just criticizing the way their opponents handled things, like in the case of Detroit.

Conservatives can bitch about how Dems ruined Detroit, though the problem is that they have no alternatives to fix it in the first place.

Furthermore, the truth of the matter is that it was capitalism and American conservativism that shit on Detroit; the Democrat administrations did the best anyone could.

[Gauthier]

None of the explanations offered so far have satisfactorily explained why the current Republican platform can't work in an urban setting which is where minority voters will be more likely to be located. It takes a ton of money to build the infrastructure up but why does it get trashed in the first place? What is causing the blight which necessitates urban renewal? I get that Detroit went to crap after American domination of the automobile industry ended, but what about other big cities?

Now, you see, the problem isn't that the Dems have failed (or not) within big cities.

It's that the Republicans have failed to offer any valid alternatives, instead resorting to just criticizing the way their opponents handled things, like in the case of Detroit.

Conservatives can bitch about how Dems ruined Detroit, though the problem is that they have no alternatives to fix it in the first place.

The Republicans have no Alternative game plan, unless you count the previous status quo as an "alternative". Their strategy is simply to bitch about what the Democrats do and try to repeal them.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

What, people with more melanin?

Despite numerous good faith efforts on the part of people to explain to you exactly what "they" want, you persist in having no clue whatsoever. Why, then, are you continuing to waste our time with this question?

None of the explanations offered so far have satisfactorily explained why the current Republican platform can't work in an urban setting which is where minority voters will be more likely to be located. It takes a ton of money to build the infrastructure up but why does it get trashed in the first place? What is causing the blight which necessitates urban renewal? I get that Detroit went to crap after American domination of the automobile industry ended, but what about other big cities?

They haven't satisfactorily explained these matters to you. On both the right and the left, among people who actually think about politics and aren't preconditioned to swallow the most contextless nonsense possible (so long as it validates their prejudices), people realize that the factors involved are complex and intertwined with centuries of racial conflict, privilege, status, reinforced stereotypes in the media, and outright racism in ways both overt and subtle.

The real tragedy here, if there is one, is not that the Republicans cannot attract minorities, but rather that perspectives such as yours are the reason that they cannot do so. It's not even like the GOP has absolutely nothing to offer impoverished communities. Tax and hiring credits for building in impoverished areas, community involvement in keeping neighborhoods safe, general outreach programs...it's not like it's impossible to slowly make some inroads over the course of years, which is pretty much the best that they can hope for. There are arguments to be made regarding cycles of welfare dependency in some families, though it's hardly as endemic as some make it out to be. But instead they hear this "They want free stuff" nonsense over and over again, and this huge swath of American citizens who are struggling every day, working when and where work is available, sending their kids to crumbling public schools through gang territory, being hassled by police on a daily or weekly basis whether they're guilty of anything or not, and doing their goddamned best to just get by have no real choice but to vote for the people who are at least willing to see some complexity in the situation, even if it's only to raise a giant collective middle fingers to the "free stuff" crowd while chanting "Fuuuuuuuuck...you!"

And do you know the worst part about it? The absolute worst part? The GOP as a group, and you as an individual, will continue to react in totally unearned resentment when minority groups refuse to vote for you over and over again despite the fact that this shit has been explained to you repeatedly, and you should have learned it by now. But the problem is a simple one, and if it's not too hypocritical for me to come up with a simple explanation after shredding your own, I'd like to propose a hypothesis:

The GOP as a whole doesn't especially care for minorities.

Oh, I'm not talking about all Republicans. Hell, I'm sure that there are racially sensitive Republicans who see the problem here, and would love nothing more than a chance to correct the problem. But they're not the ones in charge, now, are they? No, the leadership of the GOP is uncomfortable with any black person who doesn't fit into the Clarence Thomas/Alan Keyes mold of espousing conservative views with a ferocity and intensity unmatched by any but Pat Buchanan. To them, black folks are (though they won't say it in public) lazy, shiftless types with a propensity towards crime, happiest with a blunt in one hand while the other reaches out for their monthly welfare check. They haven't lived in the inner city, except maybe during a police ride-along. They haven't spoken to anyone who actually lives out there. They're only familiar with what happens out there through the news, and their reaction to the problem, as it is to all problems, is a simple "More police, more raids, longer sentences" mantra, as if one can take structural and systemic issues that have been in existence for generations and beat them into submission.

Of course they're not racist, though, no. They're "realists". They're "giving a hand up, not a hand out", though the hand up is often curiously lacking in details, or even existence. And they don't actually hate black folks. It's just that--as I previously stated--they don't especially care for them. They're not interested in complex problems if they don't immediately offer simple solutions. They're not interested in actually helping if it costs anything. They. Don't. Care.

And that's going to be their major hurdle for generations.

[Uieurnthlaal]

Now, you see, the problem isn't that the Dems have failed (or not) within big cities.

It's that the Republicans have failed to offer any valid alternatives, instead resorting to just criticizing the way their opponents handled things, like in the case of Detroit.

Conservatives can bitch about how Dems ruined Detroit, though the problem is that they have no alternatives to fix it in the first place.

The Republicans have no Alternative game plan, unless you count the previous status quo as an "alternative". Their strategy is simply to bitch about what the Democrats do and try to repeal them.

To be fair, they really screwed themselves older when they woke the sleeping dragon that is the radical right. It may have won them the 2010 elections, but it's burning them in the back, and singeing the nation in the meanwhile, trampling on the powers of the GOP establishment to control the primaries, all the while dropping its excrement on undesirables like immigrants, muslims, and the poor.

It's hard to keep a metaphor going this long. Don't judge.

[Grossdeutsches Kaiserreich]

The Republican Party has a tone and articulative issue, mostly. The vast majority of Americans are center-right but they've let the Democrats control the messaging. Conservatism is not on a death spiral, infact it's stronger than it ever was. The problem is messaging, We need to look no further than Ronald Reagan. If there was someone who could articulate Conservative principles who was willing to negotiate and be moderate, he would probably be elected by a landslide.

I think the reason most people are angry at Washington these days is because they can't get anything done, quite frankly the entire American political system is corrupt and ineffective. The American government, in my humble opinion, is a shame to all Americans.