Woman denied US citizenship for being Atheist

[IshCong]

There's nothing wrong with conscientious objectors becoming citizens, to say nothing of natural born citizens that are conscientious objectors.
There's also more ways 'to defend this land' than serving in a combat role.

We need to save the conscientious objector spots for people who are already citizens.

We really don't...

---

And? I give you the utmost level of respect for serving in our armed forces, however I must disagree wholeheartedly. She doesn't have to be a soldier; a janitor, a shrink, a cook; she could even donate some of the books to the soldiers for reading material. I just feel that if you want to live in America, A) Pay taxes, B) Be prepared to support the armed forces in some capability or another when called upon.

CAF, i said CAF...
do you even Military?
if somebody doesn't want to bear warms, they should have a RIGHT to not do so, if they wish to NOT support a war, they should be able to. conscientious objectors exist and should not be denied rights. even if they do hate my guts, i support their rights.

Conscientious objectors support the war anyway, assuming there's a draft. They have no right not to support the war, at least in Right-Now-America. They can be drafted, and if they are class 1-A-O (CO available for non-combat military service) they go into the military in a non-combat role. If they are class 1-O (CO who objects to all military service) they go into the Alternative Service Program, which serves the war effort on the civilian side.

---

That's Craftworld's point, that one can serve the military in a non-combat role if they do not wish to serve in a combat capacity. Which is true, and goes far beyond cooking. Medics, any sort of desk job, recruitment...
That's also what she has (reportedly) stated, that she is fine with non-combat service, but does not wish to serve in a combat capacity.

oh wow, really?
allow me to apply more palms to face...

And why are you face-palming at that, again?

[The Blaatschapen]

Warning, only read OP.

This is another case of religion claiming a monopoly on morality. And the INS should, as part of a secular government, not indulge in this monopoly.

[Ermarian]

The headline is a bit inaccurate; it's not just because she's an atheist. The US merely denies people who are both atheist and pacifist. Can't have that. 'Murca.

[Greed and Death]

And? I give you the utmost level of respect for serving in our armed forces, however I must disagree wholeheartedly. She doesn't have to be a soldier; a janitor, a shrink, a cook; she could even donate some of the books to the soldiers for reading material. I just feel that if you want to live in America, A) Pay taxes, B) Be prepared to support the armed forces in some capability or another when called upon.

CAF, i said CAF...
do you even Military?
if somebody doesn't want to bear warms, they should have a RIGHT to not do so, if they wish to NOT support a war, they should be able to. conscientious objectors exist and should not be denied rights. even if they do hate my guts, i support their rights.

Immigration to the US is not a right.
US citizenship is only a right if you were born here.

[Yjafjord]

and i think that "RIGHT NOW AMERICA" is honestly horrible, so why would i support Conscientious objectors program they have? i come from Canada where people ARE allowed to not support a war if they so wish, they just need to ration and that's it, not support it as much as they can...


as for why i was face palming, at first i thought she didn't want to server at all, and that's fine with me, but upon learning that she was ok with NC roles but still being denied, that was just too much for me...

[Yjafjord]

CAF, i said CAF...
do you even Military?
if somebody doesn't want to bear warms, they should have a RIGHT to not do so, if they wish to NOT support a war, they should be able to. conscientious objectors exist and should not be denied rights. even if they do hate my guts, i support their rights.

Immigration to the US is not a right.
US citizenship is only a right if you were born here.

i raise you with a refugee status

[Liberated Counties]

'MURICA

The Christian Theocracy of the world, and yet another clear example of its social forwardness.

not.

[Kubrath]

CAF, i said CAF...
do you even Military?
if somebody doesn't want to bear warms, they should have a RIGHT to not do so, if they wish to NOT support a war, they should be able to. conscientious objectors exist and should not be denied rights. even if they do hate my guts, i support their rights.

Immigration to the US is not a right.
US citizenship is only a right if you were born here.

She's been living there for over 30 years! Are you really going to deny her citizenship for not being born there? The people of the United States of America are a nation of immigrants... (edit: more accurate)

[Greed and Death]

Immigration to the US is not a right.
US citizenship is only a right if you were born here.

i raise you with a refugee status

Is the woman a refugee ?

[Sassinia]

i raise you with a refugee status

Is the woman a refugee ?

No, but she lived there for 30 damn years. That's older than me, or probably you.

[Greed and Death]

Immigration to the US is not a right.
US citizenship is only a right if you were born here.

She's been living there for over 30 years! Are you really going to deny her citizenship for not being born there? The people of the United States of America are a nation of immigrants... (edit: more accurate)

No we are denying her citizenship on her unwillingness to take up arms to defend this country.
If she does not like that idea, then she should continue what ever arrangement she has had for the last 30 years.

[Sassinia]

She's been living there for over 30 years! Are you really going to deny her citizenship for not being born there? The people of the United States of America are a nation of immigrants... (edit: more accurate)

No we are denying her citizenship on her unwillingness to take up arms to defend this country.
If she does not like that idea, then she should continue what ever arrangement she has had for the last 30 years.

She's 64. You want a 64-year old woman on the front lines? I don't think so.

[IshCong]

and i think that "RIGHT NOW AMERICA" is honestly horrible, so why would i support Conscientious objectors program they have? i come from Canada where people ARE allowed to not support a war if they so wish, they just need to ration and that's it, not support it as much as they can...


as for why i was face palming, at first i thought she didn't want to server at all, and that's fine with me, but upon learning that she was ok with NC roles but still being denied, that was just too much for me...

You claimed COs have certain rights they simply do not have. That was the reason for my post.

Most conscientious objectors tend to fall into class 1-A-O, from my understanding. That is, they're willing to serve in a non-combat capacity if drafted. Of course, if she was just class 1-A-O, there would be no problem. America does not prohibit COs from attaining citizenship.

[Greed and Death]

Is the woman a refugee ?

No, but she lived there for 30 damn years. That's older than me, or probably you.

Not older than me.
And...

[Yjafjord]

i raise you with a refugee status

Is the woman a refugee ?

no but i am trying to prove that "Immigration to the US is not a right. US citizenship is only a right if you were born here." by showing proof that it CAN be a right
mind you it has very little to do with the topic, but still such thinking should be proven wrong...

[Greed and Death]

No we are denying her citizenship on her unwillingness to take up arms to defend this country.
If she does not like that idea, then she should continue what ever arrangement she has had for the last 30 years.

She's 64. You want a 64-year old woman on the front lines? I don't think so.

No but I want a citizen willing to do that regardless if I intend to call her up.

[IshCong]

Immigration to the US is not a right.
US citizenship is only a right if you were born here.

She's been living there for over 30 years! Are you really going to deny her citizenship for not being born there? The people of the United States of America are a nation of immigrants... (edit: more accurate)

The current population of the United States of America are not solely immigrants. They are no more immigrants than anyone who is not currently living in Africa are immigrants.
And greed is correct, citizenship is in no way a 'right'. Which doesn't necessarily mean she should be denied, mind...

[Kubrath]

She's been living there for over 30 years! Are you really going to deny her citizenship for not being born there? The people of the United States of America are a nation of immigrants... (edit: more accurate)

No we are denying her citizenship on her unwillingness to take up arms to defend this country.
If she does not like that idea, then she should continue what ever arrangement she has had for the last 30 years.

Really? So you send even your elderly to war? I find that hard to believe. She has already stated that she would support the nation's military endeavours in any other way she can but not directly by bearing arms, which she has substantially justified.

[Sassinia]

She's 64. You want a 64-year old woman on the front lines? I don't think so.

No but I want a citizen willing to do that regardless if I intend to call her up.

She would be killed instantly by younger, fitter men and woman on the enemy side. She wouldn't be able to do anything to defend America.

[Yjafjord]

She's been living there for over 30 years! Are you really going to deny her citizenship for not being born there? The people of the United States of America are a nation of immigrants... (edit: more accurate)

The current population of the United States of America are not solely immigrants. They are no more immigrants than anyone who is not currently living in Africa are immigrants.
And greed is correct, citizenship is in no way a 'right'. Which doesn't necessarily mean she should be denied, mind...

as i said, he is wrong, refugee status makes it a right.

[IshCong]

No we are denying her citizenship on her unwillingness to take up arms to defend this country.
If she does not like that idea, then she should continue what ever arrangement she has had for the last 30 years.

Really? So you send even your elderly to war? I find that hard to believe. She has already stated that she would support the nation's military endeavours in any other way she can but not directly by bearing arms, which she has substantially justified.

That's not what greed is saying. greed is saying that she is being denied citizenship due to her unwillingness to serve and that it is that unwillingness that has disqualified her for citizenship, regardless of whether or not she ever would have served.
I disagree with greed in this matter. I've no problem with the question (especially if we'd just start adding women to the draft like we should have done a long time ago), but I do object to the religious requirements the INS seems to be requesting and I have no problems permitting COs to attain full citizenship.

[DuThaal Craftworld]

No we are denying her citizenship on her unwillingness to take up arms to defend this country.
If she does not like that idea, then she should continue what ever arrangement she has had for the last 30 years.

She's 64. You want a 64-year old woman on the front lines? I don't think so.

No. But filtering Materiel Acquisition forms, cooking, forwarding unit rosters etc?
I want her to be ready and willing to do that before she gets citizenship. Citizenship is a privilege, not a right. If she's okay with a noncombat role, then she should be allowed citizenship. Otherwise she need not apply.

[IshCong]

No but I want a citizen willing to do that regardless if I intend to call her up.

She would be killed instantly by younger, fitter men and woman on the enemy side. She wouldn't be able to do anything to defend America.

"No, but I want a citizen willing..."
greed didn't say 'able to do anything', greed said 'willing to do that'.
Able =/= willing.

EDIT: Typo.

[IshCong]

She's 64. You want a 64-year old woman on the front lines? I don't think so.

No. But filtering Materiel Acquisition forms, cooking, forwarding unit rosters etc?
I want her to be ready and willing to do that before she gets citizenship. Citizenship is a privilege, not a right. If she's okay with a noncombat role, then she should be allowed citizenship. Otherwise she need not apply.

She does indeed seem to be willing to serve in a non-combat role.
...
I also have no objections to COs who do object to serving in the military in any capacity from being admitted to gain citizenship. We can just put them in the ASP anyway.
If the draft comes up.
Which it probably won't.
Especially in her lifetime.

[Yjafjord]

why doesn't she just start a cult about peaceful trees now that i think of it?
just have her call it her belief and start to pull off non-sense hiding behind freedom of belief to show how silly it can get?