Does God Exist?

[Czechanada]

Alright so give me proof of the big bang. If there is no proof then its not real by your logic.

Except that we can measure red shifts, gravity, dark energy, the fact that the universe is expanding, dark matter, dark energy, et cetera.

[Sociobiology]

Alright so give me proof of the big bang. If there is no proof then its not real by your logic.

the dispersal of the univeral background radiation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation

and the hydrogen ratio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis

[The Rich Port]

If god gave you free thinking, wouldn't he want you to question him. Maybe he is real but sends all the atheists to heaven for making use of the the tool of free thinking.

As I said in another thread on this very subject, specifically about Job.

Job questioned God daily.

But there's a difference between saying "Why would you do that God?" and saying "What gives you the right to do it? Who are you to do that?"

Job never question God's authority. His authority exists outside of yours.

Like 19: 39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”

40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

God doesn't need your faith. The Universe declares his majesty. As I said, religion is not for God, religion is for you.
"

The thing is, in some versions, God gave Job everything he had lost back. Therefore, Job's case is not the same case as most people afflicted by non-evil problems.

If Job didn't question why God did those things having talked to God, Job would have been stupid even if staring God right in the face.

[Matta]

Alright so give me proof of the big bang. If there is no proof then its not real by your logic.

Cosmic background radiation.

That proves what? What proof is there that it came from the big bang people just assume it was cause by the supposed Big Bang.

[Kueland]

You're misinterpreting that. Can you paint a picture of something you can't perceive, can you create something you can't Imagine? No you cannot.

Evil is an absence of Good. Satan was once in God's Grace but turned from God. Humanity was in God's grace but turned from God.

If God created us, why not just create us without the ability to turn away? Why subject us to torment?

Because he wants loving followers, not boring robots.

[Sociobiology]

As I said in another thread on this very subject, specifically about Job.

Job questioned God daily.

But there's a difference between saying "Why would you do that God?" and saying "What gives you the right to do it? Who are you to do that?"

Job never question God's authority. His authority exists outside of yours.

Like 19: 39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”

40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

God doesn't need your faith. The Universe declares his majesty. As I said, religion is not for God, religion is for you.
"

The thing is, in some versions, God gave Job everything he had lost back. Therefore, Job's case is not the same case as most people afflicted by non-evil problems.

If Job didn't question why God did those things having talked to God, Job would have been stupid even if staring God right in the face.

It is also torture to win a bet, immoral no matter how you cut it.

[Pandeeria]

"For those who profess themselves wise become fools."

Which cements Christianity as a religion for oppressed and downtrodden people. It's filled with statements denigrating talent, success, and pride, because it was targeted and the wretched, oppressed underclass, and to make them feel better about their lot in life, it tried to demolish the accomplishments of all of humanity so that everyone was on the same level as the underclass. Rather than try to lift the underclass up, or teach them how to shake off oppression, it offered an opiate to assuage their anger and make them complacent with their unacceptable lot in life.

This^
And made sure that people living in horrible and dark oppressive times wouldn't off them selves.

[The Rich Port]

If God created us, why not just create us without the ability to turn away? Why subject us to torment?

Because he wants loving followers, not boring robots.

And that's why he cast Lucifer, his wisest and kindest angel, into a pit of eternal suffering, making him the King of something worse than nothing.

Because he wants loving, smart followers.

[Czechanada]

Cosmic background radiation.

That proves what? What proof is there that it came from the big bang people just assume it was cause by the supposed Big Bang.

That's the whole point of science. One looks at the evidence, and tries to conclude how it all fits together.

[New Libertarian States]

If God created us, why not just create us without the ability to turn away? Why subject us to torment?

Because he wants loving followers, not boring robots.

I'd rather have a bunch of rational robots that question, rather then peope who just believe what is told to them, and never question it.

[Matta]

Alright so give me proof of the big bang. If there is no proof then its not real by your logic.

Except that we can measure red shifts, gravity, dark energy, the fact that the universe is expanding, dark matter, dark energy, et cetera.

Oh we can measure stuff that you believe are caused by the Big Bang. That proved nothing but we measure stuff.

[Pandeeria]

If God created us, why not just create us without the ability to turn away? Why subject us to torment?

Because he wants loving followers, not boring robots.

And why not then present us evidence he exists. That don't give me that crap about the bible or what ever. Why didn't he give factual, valid proof?

[Matta]

Alright so give me proof of the big bang. If there is no proof then its not real by your logic.

Except that we can measure red shifts, gravity, dark energy, the fact that the universe is expanding, dark matter, dark energy, et cetera.

Oh we can measure stuff that you believe are caused by the Big Bang. That proved nothing but we measure stuff. How does the universe cause you to believe the big bang. Dark Matter and Energy proves nothing either.

[New Libertarian States]

Except that we can measure red shifts, gravity, dark energy, the fact that the universe is expanding, dark matter, dark energy, et cetera.

Oh we can measure stuff that you believe are caused by the Big Bang. That proved nothing but we measure stuff.

And where is your evidence that god created it?
In all honesty.

[Czechanada]

Which cements Christianity as a religion for oppressed and downtrodden people. It's filled with statements denigrating talent, success, and pride, because it was targeted and the wretched, oppressed underclass, and to make them feel better about their lot in life, it tried to demolish the accomplishments of all of humanity so that everyone was on the same level as the underclass. Rather than try to lift the underclass up, or teach them how to shake off oppression, it offered an opiate to assuage their anger and make them complacent with their unacceptable lot in life.

This^
And made sure that people living in horrible and dark oppressive times wouldn't off them selves.

Sociologically, poor and uneducated people are the most likely to be religious.

[The Grey Wolf]

Christians don't say that the seed of a Gentile is worth the same as the seed of a donkey. Neither did the New Testament God order his men to kill all the young boys and their mothers, while taking the young virgin girls to be their wives. By your logic, the New Testament God is better than the Old Testament God.

Where is your source for that first 'quote' and second.

You realize Judges is a historical book.... meaning not everything that happened in it was 'accepted by god' just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean God condoned it.

So please, go read your Bible again from Genesis to Malachi... instead of Revelations to Genesis.

http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/topr ... oserve.htm
I was referring to Numbers, not Judges. Specifically Numbers 31.
I'm not really into the Bible. I was pretty much put off by all the raping, massacring, etc.

[Pandeeria]

Because he wants loving followers, not boring robots.

I'd rather have a bunch of rational robots that question, rather then peope who just believe what is told to them, and never question it.

So aren't his loving followers actually the robots?

[New Libertarian States]

Except that we can measure red shifts, gravity, dark energy, the fact that the universe is expanding, dark matter, dark energy, et cetera.

Oh we can measure stuff that you believe are caused by the Big Bang. That proved nothing but we measure stuff. How does the universe cause you to believe the big bang. Dark Matter and Energy proves nothing either.

Again, you've heard of the Higgs Boson I'm assuming.
If not, care for an explanation?

[The Basement of Your Mom]

That proves what? What proof is there that it came from the big bang people just assume it was cause by the supposed Big Bang.

The homogeneity and isotropy of the CMBR, and the homogeneity and isotropy of large-scale distributions of galaxies and other matter demonstrate that, on a large enough scale, the Friedmann equations are a valid description of space-time geometry. The Friedmann equations, a specific solution of the Einstein field equations (which have been independently verified through countless tests of general relativity), dictate that space must uniformly expand, uniformly contract, or stay in a static state (but this is an unstable equilibrium). The observation of red-shift patterns demonstrates that we are in the "uniformly expand" sector of Friedmann cosmology.

Do I need to go on?

[New Libertarian States]

I'd rather have a bunch of rational robots that question, rather then peope who just believe what is told to them, and never question it.

So aren't his loving followers actually the robots?

And deeper into the Rabbit hole we go.....

[Menassa]

"For those who profess themselves wise become fools."

Which cements Christianity as a religion for oppressed and downtrodden people. It's filled with statements denigrating talent, success, and pride, because it was targeted and the wretched, oppressed underclass, and to make them feel better about their lot in life, it tried to demolish the accomplishments of all of humanity so that everyone was on the same level as the underclass. Rather than try to lift the underclass up, or teach them how to shake off oppression, it offered an opiate to assuage their anger and make them complacent with their unacceptable lot in life.

Also the whole Polemic of the New Testament is Jesus being rejected by his own people... as well as the early Christians being rejected by their people.

I believe it's what drives people to Jesus they find a common ground with him, they feel rejected and unloved by their peers.... and so was Jesus.

Furthermore... if I believe in him, we will be in life together.

[Anachronous Rex]

Cosmic background radiation.

That proves what? What proof is there that it came from the big bang people just assume it was cause by the supposed Big Bang.

"Your proof doesn't prove anything! It could have been magic!"

No. Big Bang theory predicted that there should be this background radiation. If it was true, then it would have to be there, if it was not there then Big Bang theory would be untrue. At the time there was no way to measure it, so it was a prediction.

Then some people who had no idea what they were doing won the nobel prize by detecting it, and this result has since been confirmed several thousand times. There's also they hydrogen ratio, which likewise points exclusively to a single conclusion.

The Big Bang happened.

[Pandeeria]

This^
And made sure that people living in horrible and dark oppressive times wouldn't off them selves.

Sociologically, poor and uneducated people are the most likely to be religious.

Yeah, atheism is on the rise in rich wealthy countries. But nearly everyone is religious in terrible 3rd world countries, that god created supposedly even though he "loves" us.

[Ivan Drago]

No he does not, and it would be foolish to be leave that he does exist.

[Matta]

Oh we can measure stuff that you believe are caused by the Big Bang. That proved nothing but we measure stuff.

And where is your evidence that god created it?
In all honesty.

Um its all around us. The plants, The Animals, us. I'll also use an illustration. You walk by a house and it is large, wooden, has windows. Was it just magically created by chance or did someone build it.