Does God Exist?

[Divair]

You can. No one is denying that.

You shouldn't.

I shouldn't?

Was I unclear?

[Transhuman Proteus]

Not one that I would use to make any semi-important decision with, no.

The concept of this is that I can have faith, I can believe something without facts.

I own this fairly famous bridge, you see. For a cool $1, 000,000 it can be yours.

Disregarding facts helps people get to the truth?

not always, but sometimes

What are these sometimes?

Nothing scientific or legal it would appear.

[Umikai]

Are you familiar with object permanence?

Yes, objects existing but you cannot see them.
Do not tie god into this.
I can just as easily say "A magic teapot floats in space, but you just can't see him" by that logic.

I just was wondering why we think things are still there when we can't prove them to be there.

[Genivaria]

I pity you for that, gullibility is something noone should be proud of.

I pity your inability to trust another person then. Or are you gullible like me?

Trust comes from knowing the person and knowing from experience that you can trust them.
Gullibility is believing something when there is no actual reason to. Also known as faith.
Do not confuse the two.

[Ostroeuropa]

I pity your inability to trust another person then. Or are you gullible like me?

Trust comes from knowing the person and knowing from experience that you can trust them.
Gullibility is believing something when there is no actual reason to. Also known as faith.

And even then, I will trust someone to be telling the truth, and if contradicting evidence comes up i'll get to the bottom of it.
I may fully expect my friends version to be vindicated, but it is as much out of duty to them as it is duty to the truth that you have to investigate.
If there are facts floating around that contradict their story, you should do them the service of finding an explanation for them.

[Umikai]

I pity your inability to trust another person then. Or are you gullible like me?

Trust comes from knowing the person and knowing from experience that you can trust them.
Gullibility is believing something when there is no actual reason to. Also known as faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
"Faith is confidence or trust in..."
I know from my relationship with God that I can trust him.

[Genivaria]

Yes, objects existing but you cannot see them.
Do not tie god into this.
I can just as easily say "A magic teapot floats in space, but you just can't see him" by that logic.

I just was wondering why we think things are still there when we can't prove them to be there.

Because there's no reason to think they'd suddenly disappear for one.

[New Libertarian States]

Yes, objects existing but you cannot see them.
Do not tie god into this.
I can just as easily say "A magic teapot floats in space, but you just can't see him" by that logic.

I just was wondering why we think things are still there when we can't prove them to be there.

Because the things we believe in that we can't see are provable.
See;Gravity, the Higgs boson particle, the Higgs Boson Field.

[Umikai]

The concept of this is that I can have faith, I can believe something without facts.

I own this fairly famous bridge, you see. For a cool $1, 000,000 it can be yours.

not always, but sometimes

What are these sometimes?

Nothing scientific or legal it would appear.

I'm not trying to talk about something i can prove scientifically or prove legaly.

[Genivaria]

Trust comes from knowing the person and knowing from experience that you can trust them.
Gullibility is believing something when there is no actual reason to. Also known as faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
"Faith is confidence or trust in..."
I know from my relationship with God that I can trust him.

I choose instead to have a 'relationship' with reality.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

But you would still cling onto your opinion that A is A, which would be inherently wrong, regardless of what I think or not think.

A is always A in the universe. However as humans we can always mistake A for B and, ultimately, that is the perception of reality that you find most comfortable with, regardless of what I think or not, and regardless of any universal constant.

That people can misinterperate things is not contested.
But A is always A.

I agree that A is always A

I was just showing why trying to tie that to say "look at how objective I am" is wrong.

[Ostroeuropa]

I own this fairly famous bridge, you see. For a cool $1, 000,000 it can be yours.



What are these sometimes?

Nothing scientific or legal it would appear.

I'm not trying to talk about something i can prove scientifically or prove legaly.

Then what good is it as a description of reality?

[New Libertarian States]

I own this fairly famous bridge, you see. For a cool $1, 000,000 it can be yours.



What are these sometimes?

Nothing scientific or legal it would appear.

I'm not trying to talk about something i can prove scientifically or prove legaly.

Then it dosent exist.
Off to bed, wait for a response if you respond to me.

[Genivaria]

I own this fairly famous bridge, you see. For a cool $1, 000,000 it can be yours.



What are these sometimes?

Nothing scientific or legal it would appear.

I'm not trying to talk about something i can prove scientifically or prove legaly.

Of course not, that would actually require more then just empty assertions.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not trying to talk about something i can prove scientifically or prove legaly.

Then it dosent exist.

Doesn't objectively exist. That word is important. Otherwise he'll launch into but wut about poetry.

[Umikai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
"Faith is confidence or trust in..."
I know from my relationship with God that I can trust him.

I choose instead to have a 'relationship' with reality.

Cool story, you have a right to do what you want.

[Madredia]

Its funny that so many people say "If God really exists he should just come down and show it" but when he did, 2,000 years ago, we called him a heretic and nailed him to a cross, then persecuted his followers, feeding them to lions and such. He that has ears let him hear.

[Transhuman Proteus]

Yes, objects existing but you cannot see them.
Do not tie god into this.
I can just as easily say "A magic teapot floats in space, but you just can't see him" by that logic.

I just was wondering why we think things are still there when we can't prove them to be there.

Probably because we have proof they were there - we sat in that chair, looked at it, all the rest - and no reason to believe they stopped being there once we couldn't see them anymore. For them to pop out of existence when no one is looking, but pop back in just in time when someone does doesn't gel with our understanding of reality very well.

Contrast this with God, who we have a profound absence of reason to believe was ever been there to begin with. And if you want to go down that path - then logically it is silly for you not to worship ancestor spirits, Vishnu, Zeus, Odin, Anansi and all the other religious beliefs.

[Genivaria]

Trust comes from knowing the person and knowing from experience that you can trust them.
Gullibility is believing something when there is no actual reason to. Also known as faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
"Faith is confidence or trust in..."
I know from my relationship with God that I can trust him.

Oh and I read your link. Nice job not quoting the rest of what it said.

It is also belief that is not based on proof.

Someone's a liar.

[Umikai]

I'm not trying to talk about something i can prove scientifically or prove legaly.

Then what good is it as a description of reality?

It's probably no good to you, but I believe it.

[Genivaria]

Its funny that so many people say "If God really exists he should just come down and show it" but when he did, 2,000 years ago, we called him a heretic and nailed him to a cross, then persecuted his followers, feeding them to lions and such. He that has ears let him hear.

He clearly wasn't a god if he just let people crucify him.

[Ostroeuropa]

Also, Mary's Room potentially disproves omniscience. (Though I come down hard against Qualia, some people think they constitute knowledge.)

Mary is a brilliant scientist who is, for whatever reason, forced to investigate the world from a black and white room via a black and white television monitor. She specializes in the neurophysiology of vision and acquires, let us suppose, all the physical information there is to obtain about what goes on when we see ripe tomatoes, or the sky, and use terms like ‘red’, ‘blue’, and so on. She discovers, for example, just which wavelength combinations from the sky stimulate the retina, and exactly how this produces via the central nervous system the contraction of the vocal cords and expulsion of air from the lungs that results in the uttering of the sentence ‘The sky is blue’. [...] What will happen when Mary is released from her black and white room or is given a color television monitor? Will she learn anything or not?


With that in mind, has god ever been not-god?
If we became not-god for a bit, would he learn anything?

(Learning things is not possible for god if he is omniscient.)

[Madredia]

Also, Mary's Room potentially disproves omniscience. (Though I come down hard against Qualia, some people think they constitute knowledge.)

Mary is a brilliant scientist who is, for whatever reason, forced to investigate the world from a black and white room via a black and white television monitor. She specializes in the neurophysiology of vision and acquires, let us suppose, all the physical information there is to obtain about what goes on when we see ripe tomatoes, or the sky, and use terms like ‘red’, ‘blue’, and so on. She discovers, for example, just which wavelength combinations from the sky stimulate the retina, and exactly how this produces via the central nervous system the contraction of the vocal cords and expulsion of air from the lungs that results in the uttering of the sentence ‘The sky is blue’. [...] What will happen when Mary is released from her black and white room or is given a color television monitor? Will she learn anything or not?


With that in mind, has god ever been not-god?
If we became not-god for a bit, would he learn anything?

(Learning things is not possible for god if he is omniscient.)

Well if Jesus really was God incarnate then God was simultaneously Man and God. He frequently called himself "Son of Man" actually.

[Umikai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
"Faith is confidence or trust in..."
I know from my relationship with God that I can trust him.

Oh and I read your link. Nice job not quoting the rest of what it said.

It is also belief that is not based on proof.

Someone's a liar.

Faith is unproven,
trust is faith,
trust is unproven.
faith is gullibility?
"Gullibility is bad"?
trust is bad?
that's a cynical world view you have.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Its funny that so many people say "If God really exists he should just come down and show it" but when he did, 2,000 years ago, we called him a heretic and nailed him to a cross, then persecuted his followers, feeding them to lions and such. He that has ears let him hear.

He clearly wasn't a god if he just let people crucify him.

Not all gods ever known to man or made up to man have been warring gods who would smite you at the slightest provocation.