Does God Exist?

[New Libertarian States]

The god of the bible is easily disproved.
I'm asking you to define YOUR god so I can disprove him.
What are the charateristics and traits of your god.

My God is the God of the Bible. Your turn: disprove him.

Alrighty.
Now, in your opinion, do you believe stories such as Noah's ark and The Exodus are correct?

[Ostroeuropa]

The god of the bible is easily disproved.
I'm asking you to define YOUR god so I can disprove him.
What are the charateristics and traits of your god.

My God is the God of the Bible. Your turn: disprove him.

With pleasure.

Omniscience:
Unknown Unknowns render this an impossibility and logically incoherent.

Well, that was easy. But shall we go further or are you ready to admit your God is already impossible?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns


Further, the god of the Bible is a forgery composite of a pagan pantheon. I'll now talk about A Brief History Of God

[Umikai]

Find me the wiki on the "Theory of Gravity" that applies to the modern times. We know it works, we just don't know why, therefore it's a law.

Are you saying that God is impossible because he is unfalsifiable? If so, you just assumed you know every physical model, and that all unfalsafiable things are bullshit.

... Yes, and then relativity came along, and after that, quantum physics.

Never said they ALL were. I said they USUALLY were. And they USUALLY are because people LOVE to lie, especially when it will earn them a whole lot of money.

Your pastors, for example.

Or am I getting falsifiability wrong?

I think my pastors wouldn't drive shit cars if they love to lie for money.
Did quantum physics and relativity explain how gravity works?

[Ostroeuropa]

(Uses A History Of God as it's major source.)
All three collapse from the examination of the old testement and how it was put together, along with the central tenets of judaism.
Essentially, large amounts of it are forgeries written after the religion was already around.

The fact that the jews were polytheists, and the whole monotheism thing only came around in 600 bc after the followers of the jewish war god "found" deuteronomy. (It's written in the same dialect as jews were using in 600 bcish, and is widely believed to have been forged to justify political repression against worshippers of other religions. This is why the various edits like "no other gods before me" make more sense.
The heavily edited nature of the old testement is obvious.

Yahweh helps the jews out of egypt, isn't he great...
And then, since the exodus is over, the jews IMMEDIATELY go back to worshipping two other gods (baal and ashera). Aren't they being really stupid?
No. They are being polytheists. Why the fuck would they worship the War god yahweh in peace time?

Israel gets a Yahwehist king in Josiah, who thinks to make Israel great they need to back the war god.
They "Find" deuteronomy, which is where the whole pact with yahweh comes from. (This makes the circumcision thing make more sense too. Ofcourse a polytheist god would demand such a display...he's marking his humans to prevent the competitors from getting them.)

Basically, reading the bible with any critical eye, you reach the conclusion that over time, many gods were merged (and very sloppily) into one.
This is why his personality RADICALLY changes chapter to chapter.
they aren't the same god.
The monotheist bit came from the Babylonian sack of jerusalem.


Polytheism -> Monolatrist polytheism (There are many gods, our people worship one.) -> Monotheism from heavy repression and editing of the material.


The video and the book explain it much, much better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_(Canaanite_deity)

This is basically it.
If you believe in the christian/jewish/islamic god, you are completely deluded and ignoring the evdidence.

[Anachronous Rex]

The god of the bible is easily disproved.
I'm asking you to define YOUR god so I can disprove him.
What are the charateristics and traits of your god.

My God is the God of the Bible. Your turn: disprove him.

"God is love"
"Love does not envy"
"Your God is a Jealous God."

*God disappears in a puff of logic*

That was easy.

[Umikai]

My God is the God of the Bible. Your turn: disprove him.

With pleasure.

Omniscience:
Unknown Unknowns render this an impossibility and logically incoherent.

Well, that was easy. But shall we go further or are you ready to admit your God is already impossible?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns


Further, the god of the Bible is a forgery composite of a pagan pantheon. I'll now talk about A Brief History Of God

Wouldn't that "unknown unknowns" thing disprove Omniscience?

[New Libertarian States]

(Uses A History Of God as it's major source.)
All three collapse from the examination of the old testement and how it was put together, along with the central tenets of judaism.
Essentially, large amounts of it are forgeries written after the religion was already around.

The fact that the jews were polytheists, and the whole monotheism thing only came around in 600 bc after the followers of the jewish war god "found" deuteronomy. (It's written in the same dialect as jews were using in 600 bcish, and is widely believed to have been forged to justify political repression against worshippers of other religions. This is why the various edits like "no other gods before me" make more sense.
The heavily edited nature of the old testement is obvious.

Yahweh helps the jews out of egypt, isn't he great...
And then, since the exodus is over, the jews IMMEDIATELY go back to worshipping two other gods (baal and ashera). Aren't they being really stupid?
No. They are being polytheists. Why the fuck would they worship the War god yahweh in peace time?

Israel gets a Yahwehist king in Josiah, who thinks to make Israel great they need to back the war god.
They "Find" deuteronomy, which is where the whole pact with yahweh comes from. (This makes the circumcision thing make more sense too. Ofcourse a polytheist god would demand such a display...he's marking his humans to prevent the competitors from getting them.)

Basically, reading the bible with any critical eye, you reach the conclusion that over time, many gods were merged (and very sloppily) into one.
This is why his personality RADICALLY changes chapter to chapter.
they aren't the same god.
The monotheist bit came from the Babylonian sack of jerusalem.


Polytheism -> Monolatrist polytheism (There are many gods, our people worship one.) -> Monotheism from heavy repression and editing of the material.


The video and the book explain it much, much better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_(Canaanite_deity)

This is basically it.
If you believe in the christian/jewish/islamic god, you are completely deluded and ignoring the evdidence.

You took all of the fun out of disproving him.

[Umikai]

My God is the God of the Bible. Your turn: disprove him.

"God is love"
"Love does not envy"
"Your God is a Jealous God."

*God disappears in a puff of logic*

That was easy.

ugh, find me the verses and i'll look into it, why do you have to make me look this up? xD

[Ostroeuropa]

(Uses A History Of God as it's major source.)
All three collapse from the examination of the old testement and how it was put together, along with the central tenets of judaism.
Essentially, large amounts of it are forgeries written after the religion was already around.

The fact that the jews were polytheists, and the whole monotheism thing only came around in 600 bc after the followers of the jewish war god "found" deuteronomy. (It's written in the same dialect as jews were using in 600 bcish, and is widely believed to have been forged to justify political repression against worshippers of other religions. This is why the various edits like "no other gods before me" make more sense.
The heavily edited nature of the old testement is obvious.

Yahweh helps the jews out of egypt, isn't he great...
And then, since the exodus is over, the jews IMMEDIATELY go back to worshipping two other gods (baal and ashera). Aren't they being really stupid?
No. They are being polytheists. Why the fuck would they worship the War god yahweh in peace time?

Israel gets a Yahwehist king in Josiah, who thinks to make Israel great they need to back the war god.
They "Find" deuteronomy, which is where the whole pact with yahweh comes from. (This makes the circumcision thing make more sense too. Ofcourse a polytheist god would demand such a display...he's marking his humans to prevent the competitors from getting them.)

Basically, reading the bible with any critical eye, you reach the conclusion that over time, many gods were merged (and very sloppily) into one.
This is why his personality RADICALLY changes chapter to chapter.
they aren't the same god.
The monotheist bit came from the Babylonian sack of jerusalem.


Polytheism -> Monolatrist polytheism (There are many gods, our people worship one.) -> Monotheism from heavy repression and editing of the material.


The video and the book explain it much, much better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_(Canaanite_deity)

This is basically it.
If you believe in the christian/jewish/islamic god, you are completely deluded and ignoring the evdidence.

You took all of the fun out of disproving him.

I'm tired of people being too ignorant to do their own research. I have no patience for the Judaic religions.

[Ostroeuropa]

With pleasure.

Omniscience:
Unknown Unknowns render this an impossibility and logically incoherent.

Well, that was easy. But shall we go further or are you ready to admit your God is already impossible?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns


Further, the god of the Bible is a forgery composite of a pagan pantheon. I'll now talk about A Brief History Of God

Wouldn't that "unknown unknowns" thing disprove Omniscience?

Yes.
Your god is Omniscient, is he not?

[The Rich Port]

... Yes, and then relativity came along, and after that, quantum physics.

Never said they ALL were. I said they USUALLY were. And they USUALLY are because people LOVE to lie, especially when it will earn them a whole lot of money.

Your pastors, for example.

Or am I getting falsifiability wrong?

I think my pastors wouldn't drive shit cars if they love to lie for money.
Did quantum physics and relativity explain how gravity works?

That's what I thought about the nuns next door to my Catholic school.

... Slightly better than Newton. I think.

[Umikai]

Wouldn't that "unknown unknowns" thing disprove Omniscience?

Yes.
Your god is Omniscient, is he not?

wait, what? So I just disproved Omniscience, meaning that my God is not an impossibility, and you agree, and then what does "Your god is Omniscient, is he not?" have to do with it?

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes.
Your god is Omniscient, is he not?

wait, what? So I just disproved Omniscience, meaning that my God is not an impossibility, and you agree, and then what does "Your god is Omniscient, is he not?" have to do with it?

I've shown that Omniscience is impossible.
Your god is said to possess Omniscience.
(Therefore, YOUR god is impossible, but another similar god may not be)

Unknown Unknowns as a concept make Omniscience a complete impossibility.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm tired of people being too ignorant to do their own research. I have no patience for the Judaic religions.

You know you are one of the most schizo types of people in NS right?

That being said, you have a point.

[Sierra Lobo]

A personal question I alone can answer.

Note: I refused to believe that my ultimate goal as a member of a logical specie is to be a compost for worms.

Why do you think what you believe has any impact on reality?

That is why it is a personal question.

In contemplation when man is nearing his death, one always ask his purpose in life made real by his logic. Why am I here? Why do I reason? If he is happy to be food by worms then he has answered his question. If he believe otherwise he may hope.

Do you think hope a reflection of reality. I think not, but why do humans felt them. I leave it up to you to answer.

[Umikai]

I think my pastors wouldn't drive shit cars if they love to lie for money.
Did quantum physics and relativity explain how gravity works?

That's what I thought about the nuns next door to my Catholic school.

... Slightly better than Newton. I think.

Thanks for that fabulous childhood memory, that categorizes all Christians off of one experience.
So you know how fundamental forces work? Please, do tell.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

wait, what? So I just disproved Omniscience, meaning that my God is not an impossibility, and you agree, and then what does "Your god is Omniscient, is he not?" have to do with it?

I've shown that Omniscience is impossible.
Your god is said to possess Omniscience.
(Therefore, YOUR god is impossible, but another similar god may not be)

Unknown Unknowns as a concept make Omniscience a complete impossibility.

And how do you know said unknowns are unknowns to a god that only knows known knowns even if they are unknown unknowns to us?

[The Rich Port]

That's what I thought about the nuns next door to my Catholic school.

... Slightly better than Newton. I think.

Thanks for that fabulous childhood memory, that categorizes all Christians off of one experience.
So you know how fundamental forces work? Please, do tell.

Doesn't stop you from believing what your pastor says on good faith. That's hearsay too.

As a matter of fact, I don't. You'll have to ask someone else. I suck at math. I'm good with evolution.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've shown that Omniscience is impossible.
Your god is said to possess Omniscience.
(Therefore, YOUR god is impossible, but another similar god may not be)

Unknown Unknowns as a concept make Omniscience a complete impossibility.

And how do you know said unknowns are unknowns to a God that only knows known knowns even if they are unknown unknowns to us?

There are always unknown unknowns.
Even if you knew absolutely everything it was possible to know, you cannot know that there is not an unknown unknown.
Which is itself an unknown.
Therefore, omniscience is impossible.

[The Rich Port]

And how do you know said unknowns are unknowns to a God that only knows known knowns even if they are unknown unknowns to us?

There are always unknown unknowns.
Even if you knew absolutely everything it was possible to know, you cannot know that there is not an unknown unknown.
Which is itself an unknown.
Therefore, omniscience is impossible.

... Wat.

[Umikai]

wait, what? So I just disproved Omniscience, meaning that my God is not an impossibility, and you agree, and then what does "Your god is Omniscient, is he not?" have to do with it?

I've shown that Omniscience is impossible.
Your god is said to possess Omniscience.
(Therefore, YOUR god is impossible, but another similar god may not be)

Unknown Unknowns as a concept make Omniscience a complete impossibility.

Sorry, i misread something a while ago, anyways:
Omniscience is obviously impossible on a human level, but how is it disproved for God? We can't know everything, and he can- get it?

[The Islands of Metanoia]

I like how you totally ignored the difficulty of running a multi-national organization subsisting merely on donations, and then expect them to come-up with modern hospitals in the middle of the slums.

I also like how you totally concluded that Rev. Mother Teresa is a heartless bitch despite several books written about her by "eye-witness accounts" over how she starved herself continuously as an ascetic practice, but rather, base all your assumptions on Canadian Academics who didn't even set foot in Calcutta, but rather based their research on biased detractors and published by a Newspaper for controversy publicity.

No, I'm not dismissing how hard it is.
But, leaving people to die is different then not being able to treat them.
I never said she was heartless or a bitch, where did you get that from?
Cool, she starved, that dosent dismiss what she did.
Neither article writers stepped foot in Calcutta.
One did research it though.
Any who, this is way off topic.
It's not relevant to this.
If you'd like to discuss it further, fell free to Tg me.
Otherwise, lets both get on topic.

I talked with these nuns bub. I met her (Teresa's) Sisters of Charity and visited their places. And these Nuns are having a hard time just to make ends meet. So what if you have Millions of Dollars in donations? It's still not enough in maintaining hundreds of Hospitals around the world.

Also, why do you say that she allows people to die? Do you think they enjoy letting people die? 1 Sister recently cried because they where not able to save a little girl dying of Leukemia. They barely, even sleep, eat and drink and in addition to their vows of Chastity, Poverty and Obedience, they also have to deal with everyday stress and then all you stupid atheists from the rich and irreligious west keep attacking and accusing these poor religious people as evil, loony or insensitive while you criticize in the comfort of your own desktop. Spitting on the legacy of a pious woman when I can see them here, in my country making a big difference.

It's totally unlike your selfish and blasphemous ilk.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've shown that Omniscience is impossible.
Your god is said to possess Omniscience.
(Therefore, YOUR god is impossible, but another similar god may not be)

Unknown Unknowns as a concept make Omniscience a complete impossibility.

Sorry, i misread something a while ago, anyways:
Omniscience is obviously impossible on a human level, but how is it disproved for God? We can't know everything, and he can- get it?

No, he can't. I've already explained why it is impossible to know everything for ANY entity.
Caeaser does not know he doesn't know about Nuclear Thermodynamics.

God could not know that there isn't his own unknown unknown.
Otherwise it would be a known unknown.
And there is always the possibility of unknown unknowns existing.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And how do you know said unknowns are unknowns to a God that only knows known knowns even if they are unknown unknowns to us?

There are always unknown unknowns.
Even if you knew absolutely everything it was possible to know, you cannot know that there is not an unknown unknown.
Which is itself an unknown.
Therefore, omniscience is impossible.

There is always the possibility of said unknown unknown being known through another agent which is in itself a known unknown, therefore not only unknown unknowns can be known but also studied and analyzed as time passes.

And as far as Christian Philosophy goes, God resembles more of a singularity than an omnipresent agent.

[Ostroeuropa]

There are always unknown unknowns.
Even if you knew absolutely everything it was possible to know, you cannot know that there is not an unknown unknown.
Which is itself an unknown.
Therefore, omniscience is impossible.

There is always the possibility of said unknown unknown being known through another agent which is in itself a known unknown, therefore not only unknown unknowns can be known but also studied and analyzed as time passes.

And as far as Christian Philosophy goes, God resembles more of a singularity than an omnipresent agent.

God cannot possess known unknowns. He is only capable of possessing Known Knowns.
Otherwise, he isn't omniscient.