Discussion Thread for Nelson Mandela's Health

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Summary of today's events:

1. According to the BBC, Zuma has asserted that Nelson Mandela is improving despite remaining in a critical situation.
2. However, Nelson Mandela's daughter has accused some journalists of speculating over his death: she described such journalists as vultures, waiting for her father to die.
3. Meanwhile, messages of support for Nelson Mandela continue to pour in, amid fears for his health: at the hospital, children released 94 balloons - each representing every year of the ex-president's life.

Direct quote from BBC to comment on:

US President Barack Obama, who is in Senegal, described Mr Mandela as "a hero for the world".

"His legacy will linger on through the ages," he said.

I hope that his struggle will pass on through generations. The concern over racism worldwide, especially with the economic problems in Europe, means that his struggle remains just as relevant from day one.

I don't know how one could accuse him of terrorism - I never heard of him advocating such. He's just like Martin Luther King, that other non-violence hero with a cause that everyone eventually understood: the colour of one's skin or their religion or whatever is no excuse for discrimination.

[Risottia]

Summary of today's events:
[list=1]
[*]According to the BBC, Zuma has asserted that Nelson Mandela is improving despite remaining in a critical situation.

ZOMBIE MANDELA!

[*]However, Nelson Mandela's daughter has accused some journalists of speculating over his death: she described such journalists as vultures, waiting for her father to die.

Well, this comes from a family that was already fighting about where Mandela's grave is to be placed, so, frankly...

[Risottia]

I'd don't recall Mandela striking an "anti-semitic" chord with me back when I lived in South Africa, he just never seemed the type.

He turned South Africa from Israel's friend into an anti-Israel country.

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

[Agritum]

He turned South Africa from Israel's friend into an anti-Israel country.

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

That's Jehuddah-logic for you.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Well, this comes from a family that was already fighting about where Mandela's grave is to be placed, so, frankly...

The family are asking for privacy from the press in respect of speculation over his health, although they appreciate the tributes and messages of support that are coming in by the thousands, if not, millions worldwide.

[Britanno]

A great man but no matter how great you are, your time will come. I think Nelson Mandela's time is now.

[The Rich Port]

Jebus, how old is Nelson Mandela?

Last I checked, he was like 90-something.

I thought he was already dead.

[Britanno]

Jebus, how old is Nelson Mandela?

Last I checked, he was like 90-something.

I thought he was already dead.

94 I think.

[Risottia]

I seriously don't give a damn of whether South Africa Hynkelist Tomainia was an apartheid or not. is chucking the Jews into extermination camps.
I like my allies, and hate my enemies.
I would support ANY country that supports Israel Bacteria, and would be against ANY country which is against Israel Bacteria.

ME NE FREGO!
(I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!)

[Agritum]

I seriously don't give a damn of whether South Africa Hynkelist Tomainia was an apartheid or not. is chucking the Jews into extermination camps.
I like my allies, and hate my enemies.
I would support ANY country that supports Israel Bacteria, and would be against ANY country which is against Israel Bacteria.

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!

[Asasia]

I seriously don't give a damn of whether South Africa Hynkelist Tomainia was an apartheid or not. is chucking the Jews into extermination camps.
I like my allies, and hate my enemies.
I would support ANY country that supports Israel Bacteria, and would be against ANY country which is against Israel Bacteria.

ME NE FREGO!
(I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!)

Sigh I miss Charlie Chaplin.

[Jehuddah]

He turned South Africa from Israel's friend into an anti-Israel country.

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

scholars consider certain forms of opposition to Zionism to constitute antisemitism.[115] A number of scholars have argued that opposition to Zionism and/or the State of Israel's policies at the more extreme fringes often overlaps with antisemitism.[115]
Anti-semites have alleged that Zionism was, or is, part of a Jewish plot to take control of the world.[119] One particular version of these allegations, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (subtitle "Protocols extracted from the secret archives of the central chancery of Zion") achieved global notability. The protocols are fictional minutes of an imaginary meeting by Jewish leaders of this plot. Analysis and proof of their fraudulent origin goes as far back as 1921.[120] A 1920 German version renamed them "The Zionist Protocols".[121] The protocols were extensively used as propaganda by the Nazis and remain widely distributed in the Arab world. They are referred to in the 1988 Hamas charter.[122]
There are examples of anti-Zionists using accusations, slanders, imagery and tactics previously associated with anti-semites. On October 21, 1973, then-Soviet ambassador to the United Nations Yakov Malik declared: "The Zionists have come forth with the theory of the Chosen People, an absurd ideology." Similarly, an exhibit about Zionism and Israel in the Museum of Religion and Atheism in Saint Petersburg designates the following as Soviet Zionist material: Jewish prayer shawls, tefillin and Passover Hagaddahs,[123] even though these are all religious items used by Jews for thousands of years.[124]

[Jehuddah]

I seriously don't give a damn of whether South Africa Hynkelist Tomainia was an apartheid or not. is chucking the Jews into extermination camps.
I like my allies, and hate my enemies.
I would support ANY country that supports Israel Bacteria, and would be against ANY country which is against Israel Bacteria.

ME NE FREGO!
(I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!)

You just made a terrible use of such a great movie.

[Rhodesi]

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

scholars consider certain forms of opposition to Zionism to constitute antisemitism.[115] A number of scholars have argued that opposition to Zionism and/or the State of Israel's policies at the more extreme fringes often overlaps with antisemitism.[115]
Anti-semites have alleged that Zionism was, or is, part of a Jewish plot to take control of the world.[119] One particular version of these allegations, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (subtitle "Protocols extracted from the secret archives of the central chancery of Zion") achieved global notability. The protocols are fictional minutes of an imaginary meeting by Jewish leaders of this plot. Analysis and proof of their fraudulent origin goes as far back as 1921.[120] A 1920 German version renamed them "The Zionist Protocols".[121] The protocols were extensively used as propaganda by the Nazis and remain widely distributed in the Arab world. They are referred to in the 1988 Hamas charter.[122]
There are examples of anti-Zionists using accusations, slanders, imagery and tactics previously associated with anti-semites. On October 21, 1973, then-Soviet ambassador to the United Nations Yakov Malik declared: "The Zionists have come forth with the theory of the Chosen People, an absurd ideology." Similarly, an exhibit about Zionism and Israel in the Museum of Religion and Atheism in Saint Petersburg designates the following as Soviet Zionist material: Jewish prayer shawls, tefillin and Passover Hagaddahs,[123] even though these are all religious items used by Jews for thousands of years.[124]

Yeah sure, most of the anti-Israel movement, at least outside the west, is to varying degrees anti-semitic. On the other hand anti-zionism doesn't necessarily correlate with anti-semitism.

[Jehuddah]

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

Yeah sure, most of the anti-Israel movement, at least outside the west, is to varying degrees anti-semitic. On the other hand anti-zionism doesn't necessarily correlate with anti-semitism.

Most of the times IT IS antisemitism.
There are some examples of non-antisemitic anti-zionism such as Naturei Karta, and Haeda Hacharedis, but nearly all anti-zionists are anti-semites.

[Kandorith]

I seriously don't give a damn of whether South Africa Hynkelist Tomainia was an apartheid or not. is chucking the Jews into extermination camps.
I like my allies, and hate my enemies.
I would support ANY country that supports Israel Bacteria, and would be against ANY country which is against Israel Bacteria.

ME NE FREGO!
(I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!)

That made me chuckle, as well as the "ZOMBIE MANDELA"

And I don't get what that whole Zionists vs Anti-Zionists has to do with Nelson Mandela... but erm.. I hope his health improves. It would be a very sad day, worldwide if Mandela would pass away from this life. Even though it is a nice age, it would still be a pity.

[Agritum]

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

scholars consider CERTAIN forms of opposition to Zionism to constitute antisemitism.[115] A number of scholars have argued that opposition to Zionism and/or the State of Israel's policies at the more extreme fringes often overlaps with antisemitism.[115]
Anti-semites have alleged that Zionism was, or is, part of a Jewish plot to take control of the world.[119] One particular version of these allegations, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (subtitle "Protocols extracted from the secret archives of the central chancery of Zion") achieved global notability. The protocols are fictional minutes of an imaginary meeting by Jewish leaders of this plot. Analysis and proof of their fraudulent origin goes as far back as 1921.[120] A 1920 German version renamed them "The Zionist Protocols".[121] The protocols were extensively used as propaganda by the Nazis and remain widely distributed in the Arab world. They are referred to in the 1988 Hamas charter.[122]
There are examples of anti-Zionists using accusations, slanders, imagery and tactics previously associated with anti-semites. On October 21, 1973, then-Soviet ambassador to the United Nations Yakov Malik declared: "The Zionists have come forth with the theory of the Chosen People, an absurd ideology." Similarly, an exhibit about Zionism and Israel in the Museum of Religion and Atheism in Saint Petersburg designates the following as Soviet Zionist material: Jewish prayer shawls, tefillin and Passover Hagaddahs,[123] even though these are all religious items used by Jews for thousands of years.[124]

Bolding, italics, underlining and caps mine. Lrn2read.

Not all anti-zionists are anti-semitic. Yes, there are anti-semitic anti-zionists, but they don't represent all anti-zionists.

[Jehuddah]

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

Bolding, italics, underlining and caps mine. Lrn2read.

Not all anti-zionists are anti-semitic. Yes, there are anti-semitic anti-zionists, but they don't represent all anti-zionists.

YOU should learn how to read, if you would look few comments back, you'll see I said MOST anti-zionists, not all.

[Agritum]

Bolding, italics, underlining and caps mine. Lrn2read.

Not all anti-zionists are anti-semitic. Yes, there are anti-semitic anti-zionists, but they don't represent all anti-zionists.

YOU should learn how to read, if you would look few comments back, you'll see I said MOST anti-zionists, not all.

Hypocrite. You called Mandela "anti-semitic" because he stopped the nuclear partnership between SA and Israel.

[Risottia]

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

scholars consider certain forms of opposition to Zionism to constitute antisemitism.[115] A number of scholars have argued that opposition to Zionism and/or the State of Israel's policies at the more extreme fringes often overlaps with antisemitism.[115]
Anti-semites have alleged that Zionism was, or is, part of a Jewish plot to take control of the world.[119] One particular version of these allegations, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (subtitle "Protocols extracted from the secret archives of the central chancery of Zion") achieved global notability. The protocols are fictional minutes of an imaginary meeting by Jewish leaders of this plot. Analysis and proof of their fraudulent origin goes as far back as 1921.[120] A 1920 German version renamed them "The Zionist Protocols".[121] The protocols were extensively used as propaganda by the Nazis and remain widely distributed in the Arab world. They are referred to in the 1988 Hamas charter.[122]
There are examples of anti-Zionists using accusations, slanders, imagery and tactics previously associated with anti-semites. On October 21, 1973, then-Soviet ambassador to the United Nations Yakov Malik declared: "The Zionists have come forth with the theory of the Chosen People, an absurd ideology." Similarly, an exhibit about Zionism and Israel in the Museum of Religion and Atheism in Saint Petersburg designates the following as Soviet Zionist material: Jewish prayer shawls, tefillin and Passover Hagaddahs,[123] even though these are all religious items used by Jews for thousands of years.[124]

"SOME" scholars think differently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antizionis ... tisemitism
(Oh, and by the way, provide a link to your source, just to allow others to check how you snipped it).

But in your head, the difference between correlation and causation, and the difference between "some" and "all" are clearly antisemitic lies.

Anyway, considering how you personally don't care about people suffering unless they're Jews (as you stated earlier), allow me to reciprocate that feeling towards your claims.

[Risottia]

You just made a terrible use of such a great movie.

I just made a perfect and fitting use of a parody of nationalist, ethnic totalitarianism.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Source for anti-Israel actions of South Africa under the Mandela presidency.

Also, because "anti-Israel" = "antisemite".

Oh really? Scholars think differently than you apparently.

scholars consider certain forms of opposition to Zionism to constitute antisemitism.[115] A number of scholars have argued that opposition to Zionism and/or the State of Israel's policies at the more extreme fringes often overlaps with antisemitism.[115]
Anti-semites have alleged that Zionism was, or is, part of a Jewish plot to take control of the world.[119] One particular version of these allegations, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (subtitle "Protocols extracted from the secret archives of the central chancery of Zion") achieved global notability. The protocols are fictional minutes of an imaginary meeting by Jewish leaders of this plot. Analysis and proof of their fraudulent origin goes as far back as 1921.[120] A 1920 German version renamed them "The Zionist Protocols".[121] The protocols were extensively used as propaganda by the Nazis and remain widely distributed in the Arab world. They are referred to in the 1988 Hamas charter.[122]
There are examples of anti-Zionists using accusations, slanders, imagery and tactics previously associated with anti-semites. On October 21, 1973, then-Soviet ambassador to the United Nations Yakov Malik declared: "The Zionists have come forth with the theory of the Chosen People, an absurd ideology." Similarly, an exhibit about Zionism and Israel in the Museum of Religion and Atheism in Saint Petersburg designates the following as Soviet Zionist material: Jewish prayer shawls, tefillin and Passover Hagaddahs,[123] even though these are all religious items used by Jews for thousands of years.[124]

Some scholars, and certain forms.

[Benuty]

how did this turn into a thread about zionism/anti-semitism?

[The Rich Port]

how did this turn into a thread about zionism/anti-semitism?

... Summer, maybe?

I'm honestly wondering whether we can call summer on Jehuddah; he was technically "born" in the spring.

[Mediobogdum]

I wish Nelson Mandella does recover enough to be able to enjoy a few more years of life. A remarkable man and one who many could aspire to emulate. But at the end of the day - we all have our 'time' and maybe his is drawing, regrettably, to a close.