Discussion Thread for Nelson Mandela's Health

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

And yeah, if you're in South Africa you speak Afrikaans. If you can't handle it then move to Zimbabwe or somet other country. Protesters in Soweto were whiny bastards who couldn't deal with the fact that Afrikaans was the lingua franca.

"If you're in the Grand Duchy of Finland of the Russian Empire you speak Russian. If you can't handle it move to Sweden or some other country. Pro-independence individuals in Finland were whiny bastards who couldn't deal with the fact that Russian was the administrative language and lingua franca of the Russian Empire."

What's wrong with having the right to speak and be taught in your own language, again, when that language is a native tongue of the country you live in?

[Surfistan]

Hey he's 94, I mean, we could build him a cryogenic tank but I think that's a beatiful age to kick the bucket.

He'll probably end up havin a city on Venus named after him.

[New Libertarian States]

Hey he's 94, I mean, we could build him a cryogenic tank but I think that's a beatiful age to kick the bucket.

He'll probably end up havin a city on Venus named after him.

We couldn't get him back if we did that.

[Heavenly Peace]

Both.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006 ... ervatives1

David Cameron dramatically denounced one of Margaret Thatcher's flagship foreign policies last night, saying that she was wrong to have branded Nelson Mandela's African National Congress as 'terrorists' and to have opposed sanctions against the apartheid regime in South Africa.

is this good enough to satisfy the first part then? because if i'm not sure if "did thatcher call mandela a grubby little terrorist, or just call the ANC and mandela terrorists" is relevant and i'm worried we're going to have another thatcther-derail. i mean, i suppose it IS mandela related, i guess.

I am still waiting for the evidence I originally asked for which proves that Thatcher did indeed call Mandela a 'terrorist'.

[Surfistan]

Hey he's 94, I mean, we could build him a cryogenic tank but I think that's a beatiful age to kick the bucket.

He'll probably end up havin a city on Venus named after him.

We couldn't get him back if we did that.

But we could put him frozen in a lollypop museum.

God, that was inappropriate.

Anyways, hope he gets better if not, well, he had a great ride the last 20 years.

[Trezchoix]

Mandela was a decent man BUT he was a terrorist that killed innocent people!
http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.c ... 3-dec.html
http://youhavetoaskwhy.blogspot.com/201 ... delas.html
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~springbk/enemy.html
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0 ... rist/?_r=0

I still respect the man and for some one to just forgive something like being put in jail for that length of time is amazing. But in reality ANY treasons activity that killed innocent people he should have been killed and you may argue but that's the common in the world. As for the ANC they're terrible and have nearly brought SA down to shambles and IF they continue it will be another Rhodesia or Zimbabwe for you non-Africans. I hope that he will RIP.

[Souseiseki]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006 ... ervatives1

David Cameron dramatically denounced one of Margaret Thatcher's flagship foreign policies last night, saying that she was wrong to have branded Nelson Mandela's African National Congress as 'terrorists' and to have opposed sanctions against the apartheid regime in South Africa.

is this good enough to satisfy the first part then? because if i'm not sure if "did thatcher call mandela a grubby little terrorist, or just call the ANC and mandela terrorists" is relevant and i'm worried we're going to have another thatcther-derail. i mean, i suppose it IS mandela related, i guess.

I am still waiting for the evidence I originally asked for which proves that Thatcher did indeed call Mandela a 'terrorist'.

are you telling me that the leader of the conservative party coming out and saying "oh, we're sorry that thatcher called mandelas ANC terrorists" isn't enough to prove that, hey, maybe thatcher called mandela and the ANC terrorists? i mean, it's theoretically possible you at this point to split hairs and hope no one else can find another source and say "well, she believed he belonged to a terrorist organization, but that doesn't mean she called him a terrorist, hmm???" but i'm not sure if i wouldn't just get bored and respond with a venn diagram. or perhaps it would be a euler diagram? again, we verge into that murky territory.

[Rhodesi]

I am still waiting for the evidence I originally asked for which proves that Thatcher did indeed call Mandela a 'terrorist'.

are you telling me that the leader of the conservative party coming out and saying "oh, we're sorry that thatcher called mandelas ANC terrorists" isn't enough to prove that, hey, maybe thatcher called mandela and the ANC terrorists? i mean, it's theoretically possible you at this point to split hairs and hope no one else can find another source and say "well, she believed he belonged to a terrorist organization, but that doesn't mean she called him a terrorist, hmm???" but i'm not sure if i wouldn't just get bored and respond with a venn diagram. or perhaps it would be a euler diagram? again, we verge into that murky territory.

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that Cameron is a conservative. My sympathies...

[Souseiseki]

are you telling me that the leader of the conservative party coming out and saying "oh, we're sorry that thatcher called mandelas ANC terrorists" isn't enough to prove that, hey, maybe thatcher called mandela and the ANC terrorists? i mean, it's theoretically possible you at this point to split hairs and hope no one else can find another source and say "well, she believed he belonged to a terrorist organization, but that doesn't mean she called him a terrorist, hmm???" but i'm not sure if i wouldn't just get bored and respond with a venn diagram. or perhaps it would be a euler diagram? again, we verge into that murky territory.

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that Cameron is a conservative. My sympathies...

i said he is the leader of the conservative party. which he is. if you think he's a secret left-winger or something you could say that, but it won't make him not the leader of the conservative party.

[Heavenly Peace]

I am still waiting for the evidence I originally asked for which proves that Thatcher did indeed call Mandela a 'terrorist'.

are you telling me that the leader of the conservative party coming out and saying "oh, we're sorry that thatcher called mandelas ANC terrorists" isn't enough to prove that, hey, maybe thatcher called mandela and the ANC terrorists? i mean, it's theoretically possible you at this point to split hairs and hope no one else can find another source and say "well, she believed he belonged to a terrorist organization, but that doesn't mean she called him a terrorist, hmm???" but i'm not sure if i wouldn't just get bored and respond with a venn diagram. or perhaps it would be a euler diagram? again, we verge into that murky territory.

You made the claim that Thatcher specifically called Mandela a terrorist so the burden of proof lies on you to prove that she did. Unless you find empirical evidence that she did then there isn't much basis for you to make that claim.

[TBA Field Marshal]

He was a horrible man. He deserves it.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

He was a horrible man. He deserves it.

Yes, all that helping to end apartheid.

How terrible.

[Stolen Droplets]

Hope we can see the man again...I swear he was good, but we don't indeed live forever. And in the next life...there's gonna be a heck of a lot of people im gonna wanna chat with, he's one of em.

Thanks for doing what you've done, see yah on the other side.

[Souseiseki]

are you telling me that the leader of the conservative party coming out and saying "oh, we're sorry that thatcher called mandelas ANC terrorists" isn't enough to prove that, hey, maybe thatcher called mandela and the ANC terrorists? i mean, it's theoretically possible you at this point to split hairs and hope no one else can find another source and say "well, she believed he belonged to a terrorist organization, but that doesn't mean she called him a terrorist, hmm???" but i'm not sure if i wouldn't just get bored and respond with a venn diagram. or perhaps it would be a euler diagram? again, we verge into that murky territory.

You made the claim that Thatcher specifically called Mandela a terrorist so the burden of proof lies on you to prove that she did. Unless you find empirical evidence that she did then there isn't much basis for you to make that claim.

"she didn't call him a terrorist. she said she believed the group he belonged to was a terrorist group, making him a terrorist. that's, like, totally different. so you're totes wrong."

i just want to check. this is seriously what you're trying to argue?

[Geilinor]

The second he dies, the country goes to shit. Mark my words.

I hope not, but South Africa is seriously messed up right now.

[Heavenly Peace]

You made the claim that Thatcher specifically called Mandela a terrorist so the burden of proof lies on you to prove that she did. Unless you find empirical evidence that she did then there isn't much basis for you to make that claim.

"she didn't call him a terrorist. she said she believed the group he belonged to was a terrorist group, making him a terrorist. that's, like, totally different. so you're totes wrong."

i just want to check. this is seriously what you're trying to argue?

I am not arguing whether she did or she didn't, I merely want you to provide empirical evidence for your claim that she called Mandela a terrorist.

[Souseiseki]

"she didn't call him a terrorist. she said she believed the group he belonged to was a terrorist group, making him a terrorist. that's, like, totally different. so you're totes wrong."

i just want to check. this is seriously what you're trying to argue?

I am not arguing whether she did or she didn't, I merely want you to provide empirical evidence for your claim that she called Mandela a terrorist.

[Zokorias personal views]

I hope he doesn't pass away, because Mandela is such a good man with a good heart, since he fought nail and tooth against the cruel Apartheid laws of old, despite his age.

#PrayForMandela

[Eylandia]

Mandela's an old guy now, I guess we have to consider the reality that he is one day going to pass on, and that that day seems unfortunately close.

Mandela has achieved a great deal in his life. Sure he was involved with basically terrorist activities, but in the situation where you have an oppressive and racist regime that allows you no voice, I'm sure most can understand why so many turned to violent means of expression. I wished apartheid could have ended peacefully through politics, but it was never going to happen. What really counts though is the post Apartheid work that Mandela did, fantastic work that provided a despondent Africa with some hope.

I really hope that whenever Mandela does pass away that Africa doesn't lose hope. He was one of the very few beacons of hope for Africa, a symbol that the future will get brighter. With Mandela gone I fear hope will be lost, and the brighter future awaiting Africa will become further out of reach.

EDIT: I certainly hope that Mandela's death doesn't become a band-wagon for Western leaders to latch on to for their own political means. Most Western governments either outright branded Mandela an evil terrorist or else purposefully turned a blind eye to the regime of Apartheid SA. Western leaders have no right to use Mandela's passing like that, quiet respect and acknowledgement of the good he has done is what will be in order.

[Rhodesi]

I am not arguing whether she did or she didn't, I merely want you to provide empirical evidence for your claim that she called Mandela a terrorist.

But she never mentioned him by name as a terrorist. If she did think he was one, then it would have been a rather reasonable conclusion to draw considering that he helped found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe, which was indubitably a terrorist organization. Since it was closely linked to the ANC, it was also a reasonable judgement of hers that the ANC was a terrorist organization.

[Souseiseki]

(Image)

But she never mentioned him by name as a terrorist. If she did think he was one, then it would have been a rather reasonable conclusion to draw considering that he helped found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe, which was indubitably a terrorist organization. Since it was closely linked to the ANC, it was also a reasonable judgement of hers that the ANC was a terrorist organization.

this is like having person X call the IRA a terrorist organization, then have someone say person X called bobby sands a terrorist, but then have someone butt in and say "um no source???"?

it's a fairly reasonable to conclude that someone believes that active members of a terrorist organization are terrorists. even if you somehow argue down to "well they only called them a terrorist by virtue of being in a a terrorist organization!" i don't see how it matters. they are still in effect labeling that person as a terrorist. it is paper thin and leads to a hollow technical "victory" that in essence means you're still either conceding or doing some rather impressive mental gymnastics, because they didn't get a list of members and go through them one by one and clarify that yes they believe this member of a terrorist organization is also a terrorist.

[Potenco]

You think we don't? It makes no difference because we're an absurdly tiny minority. The ANC has a super majority, and it will continue to have one for the rest of our lives.

If only the people of South Africa would've known what South Africa would become in 20 years, maybe they would've voted differently in 1992.

Because im sure VF= has the best interests of blacks in South Africa at heart

Seriously, Hippo you are pretty much the biggest elitist on Nationstates and a borderline rascist. You think Aborigines and American Indians have contributed nothing to their respective nations cultures (which is very ignorant) and you took aparthed era South Africas flag and put your own coat of arms on it

[Cameroi]

none of us live forever. he's a hero. he's also 94. (and i thought my mom was doing pretty good to make it to 91).

[Valigaria]

He had one good idea and that was ending Apartheid. Other than that, he was a horrible politician that set the stage for running South Africa into the ground.

[Hippostania]

I can't be assed to answer anything else right now, but..

you took aparthed era South Africas flag and put your own coat of arms on it

HOLY FUCK, SO WHAT? The color scheme of the South African flag symbolized the Dutch, the first inhabitants of South Africa and the three nations that united to form the Union of South Africa in 1910; Oranje Free State, Transvaal and Cape Colony.

Only the ignorant liberals could see that, a flag symbolizing the history of South Africa that was adopted two decades before apartheid as "racist". That flag is the true flag of South Africa, the current flag with the ANC colors conviniently added in is nothing but a symbol of Afrikaner cultural genocide and general failure.

Besides, the blue-white-orange color scheme is asthetically beautiful.