Discussion Thread for Nelson Mandela's Health

[Hippostania]

Back parties that are anti-corruption then.

You think we don't? It makes no difference because we're an absurdly tiny minority. The ANC has a super majority, and it will continue to have one for the rest of our lives.

If only the people of South Africa would've known what South Africa would become in 20 years, maybe they would've voted differently in 1992.

[Divair]

You think we don't? It makes no difference because we're an absurdly tiny minority. The ANC has a super majority, and it will continue to have one for the rest of our lives.

Are you implying that the black majority is somehow in favor of corruption?

No, they're in favour of the ANC, who are completely corrupt.

[Heavenly Peace]

You think we don't? It makes no difference because we're an absurdly tiny minority. The ANC has a super majority, and it will continue to have one for the rest of our lives.

Are you implying that the black majority is somehow in favor of corruption?

>Attempts to paint Divair as a racist.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

so again as "guy who regularly defends brutal dictatorships and arming genocidal regimes". have you considered that maybe you are massive hypocrite who should stop?

Not really. I'm going to continue defending freedom whether you like it or not.

The Hippostanian English Dictionary

freedom

friy - dum

1) The suppression and/or arrest and/or torture and/or execution of leftists.
2) The suppression of the right to strike.
3) The suppression of workers' rights.
4) White people holding an antidemocratic monopoly on power.
b) racist policies aimed at the maintenance thereof.

See: Union/Republic of South Africa under Apartheid (free state), Rhodesia

---

democracy

deh-moh-kra-siy

1) Right-wing people directing government policy.
2) The control of political power by white people.
b) Oppression of those opposed to right-wing white control of governments.

See: The democratic state of Apartheid South Africa

---

terrorist

teh-rur-ist

1) A left-winger.
2) Those opposed to right-wing white control of governments.
b) Those critical of "democracy" (see above definition). Example: Victor Jara
3) Union members.

See: The terrorist Victor Jara, the terrorist Antonio Gramsci, the terrorists who participated in the Soweto uprising.

[Ostroeuropa]

Are you implying that the black majority is somehow in favor of corruption?

No, they're in favour of the ANC, who are completely corrupt.

Then point out that they are corrupt.

[Divair]

You think we don't? It makes no difference because we're an absurdly tiny minority. The ANC has a super majority, and it will continue to have one for the rest of our lives.

If only the people of South Africa would've known what South Africa would become in 20 years, maybe they would've voted differently in 1992.

It makes no difference. This was going to happen at one point or another. It was inevitable. It's best that we just left, and that's what we've done and are doing.

[Divair]

No, they're in favour of the ANC, who are completely corrupt.

Then point out that they are corrupt.

Do you seriously think we're just sitting on our asses whining about it? We've done everything and nothing works. It never will. And that's why over a million of us have left and more of us continue to leave.

[Ostroeuropa]

Are you implying that the black majority is somehow in favor of corruption? How do you think the blacks got equality in the US.
Are you saying that the whites weren't a majority there too?

>Attempts to paint Divair as a racist.

When someone is advocating that an entire race of people who are born in a country are foreigners and need to leave, i'm not attempting to paint them as a racist.
They are a racist. Or at least, are advocating a racist stance.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Look at the treasonous man! He committed treason by singing and protesting against a coup! Evil treasonous man!

Yup, a communist party member who betrayed the Chilean people and was punished for it. I don't see the problem.

Apart from disagreeing with you, what treasonable act did he commit?

I wasn't aware executing non-violent dissidents was "freedom".

Clearly there people were treasonous traitors too.

[Hippostania]

If only the people of South Africa would've known what South Africa would become in 20 years, maybe they would've voted differently in 1992.

It makes no difference. This was going to happen at one point or another. It was inevitable. It's best that we just left, and that's what we've done and are doing.

No! That kind of spineless thinking is wrong and immoral. Even if there had been a some kind of uprising, the National Party government could've easily defeated it as long as they had been steadfast and strong against the foreign and internal pressure.

[Ostroeuropa]

Then point out that they are corrupt.

Do you seriously think we're just sitting on our asses whining about it? We've done everything and nothing works. It never will. And that's why over a million of us have left and more of us continue to leave.

And if people want to stay?

[Saruhan]

Ding dong, the witch doctor is dead soon!

I have mixed views of Mandela, though they're mostly negative. He is a murderer who ordered bombings that killed hundreds of innocent civilians, enabled the cultural genocide of Afrikaner culture and directly caused dramatic increase in crime and inflation. In January 1985, South African State President P.W. Botha offered Mandela unconditional amnesty and immidiate freedom from Robben Island if he denounced violence as a political violence. Guess what murderer Mandela did? He refused!

Still, you have to give credit that despite pretty much fucking up South Africa, he managed to avert a white genocide that would've undoubtedly occurred if someone more extremist would've been in control of ANC. Mandela managed to act in a reconciliatory way, discouraging vengeance and managing to avert a complete race war, though his successors like Zuma are majorly fucking up his legacy.

Overall, I see Mandela as a terrorist murderer that did some good things, but not enough good things to justify the dozens of dead white men, women and children whose death he caused. I hope that before he dies, he would discredit Zuma and encourage real reconciliatory actions like putting an immidiate stop to Afrikaner cultural genocide, for example by reinstating the old flag and coat of arms that had existed long before apartheid.

Hippo, just no - Afrikaners have never had a true identity in South Africa, they are foreigners and they need out.

Wow there's just so much wrong with that I don't know where to start.

I just hope you aren't in my country

[Divair]

It makes no difference. This was going to happen at one point or another. It was inevitable. It's best that we just left, and that's what we've done and are doing.

No! That kind of spineless thinking is wrong and immoral. Even if there had been a some kind of uprising, the National Party government could've easily defeated it as long as they had been steadfast and strong against the foreign and internal pressure.

You really just don't get it, do you?

[Souseiseki]

yes

Source and exact quotation please.

are you asking this because you don't believe thatcher considered mandela and the ANC terrorists or because you want to have a semantic debate over whether she called him a "grubby little terrorist" or just "terrorist"?

[Divair]

Do you seriously think we're just sitting on our asses whining about it? We've done everything and nothing works. It never will. And that's why over a million of us have left and more of us continue to leave.

And if people want to stay?

Then they can stay. Be my guest. I don't care. Just don't come crying to me when you continually get fucked over by the absurdly corrupt, racist government.

[Heavenly Peace]

>Attempts to paint Divair as a racist.

When someone is advocating that an entire race of people who are born in a country are foreigners and need to leave, i'm not attempting to paint them as a racist.
They are a racist.

But he isn't. Divair was saying that an ethnic minority in a country such as South Africa might be better off leaving if they are being persecuted - either by acts of commission or ommission - by an ethnic majority.

[Ostroeuropa]

And if people want to stay?

Then they can stay. Be my guest. I don't care. Just don't come crying to me when you continually get fucked over by the absurdly corrupt, racist government.

Mmpf. I misinterperated your stance. Sorry about that.

[Hippostania]

Yup, a communist party member who betrayed the Chilean people and was punished for it. I don't see the problem.

Apart from disagreeing with you, what treasonable act did he commit?

I wasn't aware executing non-violent dissidents was "freedom".

Clearly there people were treasonous traitors too.

The fact that he was a member of the party whose purpose was to violate the constitutionally guaranteed rights and sovereignty of the Chilean people and supporting the tyrant Allende who crushed the basic natural rights of the Chilean people.

And yeah, if you're in South Africa you speak Afrikaans. If you can't handle it then move to Zimbabwe or somet other country. Protesters in Soweto were whiny bastards who couldn't deal with the fact that Afrikaans was the lingua franca. I wouldn't call them communists, but they certainly were pretty.. how would I say it politely.. non-informed.

[Divair]

Then they can stay. Be my guest. I don't care. Just don't come crying to me when you continually get fucked over by the absurdly corrupt, racist government.

Mmpf. I misinterperated your stance. Sorry about that.

It's fine.

[Heavenly Peace]

Source and exact quotation please.

are you asking this because you don't believe thatcher considered mandela and the ANC terrorists or because you want to have a semantic debate over whether she called him a "grubby little terrorist" or just "terrorist"?

Both.

[Souseiseki]

Apart from disagreeing with you, what treasonable act did he commit?

I wasn't aware executing non-violent dissidents was "freedom".

Clearly there people were treasonous traitors too.

The fact that he was a member of the party whose purpose was to violate the constitutionally guaranteed rights and sovereignty of the Chilean people and supporting the tyrant Allende who crushed the basic natural rights of the Chilean people.

And yeah, if you're in South Africa you speak Afrikaans. If you can't handle it then move to Zimbabwe or somet other country. Protesters in Soweto were whiny bastards who couldn't deal with the fact that Afrikaans was the lingua franca. I wouldn't call them communists, but they certainly were pretty.. how would I say it politely.. non-informed.

we must destroy the constitution to protect the constitution! we must violate peoples rights to protect peoples rights!

[Hippostania]

we must destroy the constitution to protect the constitution! we must violate peoples rights to protect peoples rights!

I wasn't aware that punishing traitors who had committed treason was against Chilean law.

[Ostroeuropa]

The fact that he was a member of the party whose purpose was to violate the constitutionally guaranteed rights and sovereignty of the Chilean people and supporting the tyrant Allende who crushed the basic natural rights of the Chilean people.

And yeah, if you're in South Africa you speak Afrikaans. If you can't handle it then move to Zimbabwe or somet other country. Protesters in Soweto were whiny bastards who couldn't deal with the fact that Afrikaans was the lingua franca. I wouldn't call them communists, but they certainly were pretty.. how would I say it politely.. non-informed.

we must destroy the constitution to protect the constitution! we must violate peoples rights to protect peoples rights!

Well, now that you mention it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NymRecFWgAs

Symbolism works just as well if you burn the constitution.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

we must destroy the constitution to protect the constitution! we must violate peoples rights to protect peoples rights!

I wasn't aware that punishing traitors who had committed treason was against Chilean law.

I wasn't aware having left-wing political beliefs, and being a theatre director, and playing a guitar and never killing anyone, was classed as treason.

[Souseiseki]

are you asking this because you don't believe thatcher considered mandela and the ANC terrorists or because you want to have a semantic debate over whether she called him a "grubby little terrorist" or just "terrorist"?

Both.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006 ... ervatives1

David Cameron dramatically denounced one of Margaret Thatcher's flagship foreign policies last night, saying that she was wrong to have branded Nelson Mandela's African National Congress as 'terrorists' and to have opposed sanctions against the apartheid regime in South Africa.

is this good enough to satisfy the first part then? because if i'm not sure if "did thatcher call mandela a grubby little terrorist, or just call the ANC and mandela terrorists" is relevant and i'm worried we're going to have another thatcther-derail. i mean, i suppose it IS mandela related, i guess.

we must destroy the constitution to protect the constitution! we must violate peoples rights to protect peoples rights!

I wasn't aware that punishing traitors who had committed treason was against Chilean law.

military dictatorship is not part of the constitution. torturing and executing people because they said things you didn't like is not part of the law. i am surprised you need to be informed of this.