Should men have a choice in abortion?

[Baiynistan]

Legally, after viability, I would say yes (should the hypothetical abortion somehow be a non-essential choice).

Why should that be so?

If the unborn child is able to survive outside the womb and be brought 'to term' with contemporary health care and the male parent of the pregnancy can afford to fund that care (or the state offer the service) and support the child afterwards, then I would see no reason why termination of the pregnancy should involve foetal death.

[Frisivisia]

I see that you deliberately modified another person's post, not much else though.
That's a definition specifically engineered to include fetuses, you see it cited real fucking often by people who want to control women's bodies in the name of "babbys".

Here's a better definition.

I wasn't trying to alter Knox's post actually, I'm on my phone, mistakes happen.

Masturbation is genocide! Ovulation is manslaughter!

Sperm cells and eggs don't develop into fetus by themselves, so no, anti-abortionists don't think like that.

Neither do fetuses.

Masturbation is genocide! Ovulation is manslaughter!

Neither is a full human being. A foetus contains the full 46 chromosomes and therefore is a full human being. I agree with abortion but only up 24 weeks when the baby has a 50% chance of survival outside of the womb.

I never knew that personhood was based on chromosomes. Are my skin flakes people? Is vacuuming genocide?

[Ifreann]

Masturbation is genocide! Ovulation is manslaughter!

Sperm cells and eggs don't develop into fetus by themselves, so no, anti-abortionists don't think like that.

Do you know what does develop into a human foetus on its own? Nothing. Literally nothing in existence.

[Shallowell]

Explain how this is applied incorrectly.

Also, my above statement of fact proves that all abortions kill babies.
Therefore, any medical journal or anything I find pertaining to abortion will tell us that abortion kills babies.

Dishonesty doesn't get you anywhere in debates. Unless it's the Daily Mail website, in which case I'm sure you'll go far.

Here's an actual definition of a baby:

baby

Type: Term

Pronunciation: bā′bē
Definitions:
1. An infant; a newborn child.

Answer my question

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Masturbation is genocide! Ovulation is manslaughter!

Neither is a full human being. A foetus contains the full 46 chromosomes and therefore is a full human being.

That's not what a human being is.

[Ovisterra]

Neither is a full human being. A foetus contains the full 46 chromosomes and therefore is a full human being.

I want a source on that being the definition of a human being because that stinks of bullshit to the point where my eyes are watering.

[Ovisterra]

You can't ignore the truth just because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

Says the kid who has yet to provide a single source.

[Ifreann]

Neither is a full human being. A foetus contains the full 46 chromosomes and therefore is a full human being.

That's not what a human being is.

More than a few humans, in fact, do not have 46 chromosomes.

[The Godly Nations]

It does kill, then, and it kills something that is potentially a child.

Masturbation is genocide! Ovulation is manslaughter!

No, because I already qualified that statement before.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

You can't ignore the truth just because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

Also, there is no reason a foetus/ embryo cannot also be a baby.

It can't, unless you understand literally nothing about basic biology.

Furthermore, I have no interest in controlling women's bodies. The child, while reliant on their mother while in the womb, is not part of their body, nor is it theirs to kill.

There's that word again, "child". I'm sure you just made it up and it just happens to be spelt exactly the same as the English word "child".

[Frisivisia]

I see that you deliberately modified another person's post, not much else though.
That's a definition specifically engineered to include fetuses, you see it cited real fucking often by people who want to control women's bodies in the name of "babbys".

Here's a better definition.

You can't ignore the truth just because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

Also, there is no reason a foetus/ embryo cannot also be a baby.

Furthermore, I have no interest in controlling women's bodies. The child, while reliant on their mother while in the womb, is not part of their body, nor is it theirs to kill.

There is, in fact, a reason why a fetus cannot be a baby, it's called that's how words fucking work.

The fetus, not child, children have been born, is entirely dependent upon the mother's body, and she has the right, as a part of the right to her own body, to no longer have the fetus, not baby, attached to her body.

[Zweite Alaje]

Do they even exist?

What would aborting afterbirth even involve?

Infant is born -> infant is killed = after birth abortion

Planned Parenthood even advocated for it, but retracted it after they realized people weren't going to fall for that.

[Aurora Novus]

Whether or not the fetus is a human being is entirely irrelevant to the issue of abortion; if it's not human, we should have no qualms about killing it. If it is human, while it has a right to life, it's right to life is superseded by the mother's right to bodily sovereignty. The fetus has no right to her womb, and if she wants it gone, it must leave. If it remains, it is violating her bodily autonomy, and she has every right to remove it by any means necessary; currently, abortion is the only means available, so that is the unfortunate reality. But if we want to uphold the institution of bodily sovereignty (and I really think you do, because your right to life hinges upon your right to bodily autonomy), this is how it must be for now.

If anti-abortionists really have such a problem with abortion, go out there and invent a way to remove and preserve the fetus outside the mother's womb without killing it or harming the mother. Then we can talk about eliminating, or at the very least, severely limiting, abortion.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Dishonesty doesn't get you anywhere in debates. Unless it's the Daily Mail website, in which case I'm sure you'll go far.

Here's an actual definition of a baby:

Answer my question

What question?

[Divair]

What would aborting afterbirth even involve?

Infant is born -> infant is killed = after birth abortion

Planned Parenthood even advocated for it, but retracted it after they realized people weren't going to fall for that.

That's not an abortion.

[Frisivisia]

What would aborting afterbirth even involve?

Infant is born -> infant is killed = after birth abortion

Planned Parenthood even advocated for it, but retracted it after they realized people weren't going to fall for that.

That's not an abortion and source.

[Shallowell]

You can't ignore the truth just because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

Also, there is no reason a foetus/ embryo cannot also be a baby.

It can't, unless you understand literally nothing about basic biology.

Furthermore, I have no interest in controlling women's bodies. The child, while reliant on their mother while in the womb, is not part of their body, nor is it theirs to kill.

There's that word again, "child". I'm sure you just made it up and it just happens to be spelt exactly the same as the English word "child".

Did you even read the definition I provided?

Please do, and when you can come up with an actual response that isn't just a meaningless statement trying I make it seem like you know what you're talking about when you really don't have any idea at all, please come back.

[Frisivisia]

It can't, unless you understand literally nothing about basic biology.


There's that word again, "child". I'm sure you just made it up and it just happens to be spelt exactly the same as the English word "child".

Did you even read the definition I provided?

Please do, and when you can come up with an actual response that isn't just a meaningless statement trying I make it seem like you know what you're talking about when you really don't have any idea at all, please come back.

Fuck your definition, it's incorrect and stop being an asshole.

[Ovisterra]

It can't, unless you understand literally nothing about basic biology.


There's that word again, "child". I'm sure you just made it up and it just happens to be spelt exactly the same as the English word "child".

Did you even read the definition I provided?

Please do, and when you can come up with an actual response that isn't just a meaningless statement trying I make it seem like you know what you're talking about when you really don't have any idea at all, please come back.

Lots of people have responded. You've chosen to ignore most of them.

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Furthermore, I have no interest in controlling women's bodies.

Then you're in favor of abortion being 100% legal with no restrictions. Good.

[Ifreann]

What would aborting afterbirth even involve?

Infant is born -> infant is killed = after birth abortion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterbirth
Joke, head, etc.

Planned Parenthood even advocated for it, but retracted it after they realized people weren't going to fall for that.

I bet that's not true at all.

[Vecherd]

Or should it stay as it currently is and be solely the woman's choice whether to keep the baby or not? I know many people think it should be her to choice to carry to terminate because the baby develops inside of her. But personally I find this unfair, because my or whoever the man may be contributed just as much to creating the child as she did. How do you feel?

I would say he has all the right to opt out of taking care of the child, but that is the choice for men, after shagging.

[Zweite Alaje]

Infant is born -> infant is killed = after birth abortion

Planned Parenthood even advocated for it, but retracted it after they realized people weren't going to fall for that.

That's not an abortion and source.

http://aclj.org/planned-parenthood/362-infants-born-alive-result-botched-abortions-died-decade

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

What would aborting afterbirth even involve?

Infant is born -> infant is killed = after birth abortion

Planned Parenthood even advocated for it, but retracted it after they realized people weren't going to fall for that.

With as much as you lie, how can you live with yourself?

[Shallowell]

Answer my question

What question?

Sorry, wrong person. That was meant for Ovisterra. Too many people debating at once