Should men have a choice in abortion?

[Mkuki]

If she wants to have an abortion in a publicly-funded, i.e. government-funded, hospital? Yes.

Note: The woman does not have to do what her husband says. She just has to hear his own grievances.


Legal reasons means in a publicly-funded, i.e. government-funded, hospital.

So now she's not allowed to get an abortion unless she is forced to listen to an irrelevant and annoying opinion

Yes.

that has no place in her life and may even cause her emotional damage, just because the hospital isn't a private one?

How can it cause her emotional damage if the opinion doesn't affect her decision. Look, there are only two reservations I have on abortion. The one pertaining to our current discussion is that a woman shouldn't be able to have an abortion on a whim. More parties than just her are being affected by her decision. And as such those directly affected parties should be given a voice.

Of course, as I stated earlier in this thread, there are exceptions to this rule.

[Zweite Alaje]

It being her body doesn't mean anything, she's carrying the fetus as a member of a couple, not herself. Not only that, but it isn't like a malignant cancer or something, it is a new individual being formed.

It is still in her body, and she gets to choose what to do with her body. No one else gets to decide that, because (once again) it is her body and not theirs. It is not her husband's body, it is not her mother's body, it is not her friends' body, it is hers. It being inside her means literally everything.

Of course it means everything, that she should provide for its welfare until it is viable for removal (i.e, can live outside the womb).

Then again, I'm not sure what I'm even doing in this thread. Whether the man has a say in the decision isn't as big of a deal for me since I'm opposed to abortion in the first place.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Unless she wishes to take his opinion into account, she can refuse to listen to anything he has to say, and he has two options:
A) Accept that she is her own person and will decide what is right for her, or
B) Insinuate that she needs to listen to him because he deserves to decide what happens to her body.
She has no obligation to listen to a damn thing he says, and if he thinks otherwise he is asserting that his opinion is greater than her choice.

I find it funny you go on and on about choice, but for some reason, tearing apart fetuses with knives doesn't disturb you in the slightest. You remind me of Ayn Rand.

Also, after scanning a bit, I have to say this about your post:

No, nobody is saying that fetuses are bad things. Fuck, I think everyone can agree babies are awesome (I want kids on my own someday).

Our concern is not that we are pro-abortion, for most people who are pro-choice are not necessarily pro-abortion. I for instance am not too fine with the idea of killing a baby other than for medical reasons. However, I also know my future girlfriend/wife is an independent person and I have no say in her choices about her own body. I would like for her to trust me enough to talk to me about these things, but that's an earned right I need to get through being a kind, compassionate, and good man to her and not just impose my will over hers. That's not how it works and if you try that on a girl the most likely conclusion will be that she will have an abortion behind your back.

Tearing apart fetuses I think most people can agree is not really cool. However, we also see the sovereignty of a woman's body and her freedom to choose without coercion. Torcularis is pretty on the spot when she says the woman doesn't have to listen to a man's bullshit, and this is coming from a man as well. The fact that we as guys may have an opinion doesn't mean our opinion is exactly beneficial to the girl nor absolutely necessary for a decision, and she has all the right to tell us to fuck off of her decision.

[AiliailiA]

So you support forcing her to listen to her husband whine about how he wants to control her body?

If she wants to have an abortion in a publicly-funded, i.e. government-funded, hospital? Yes.

Note: The woman does not have to do what her husband says. She just has to hear his own grievances.

What does "for legal reasons" mean?

EDIT: Hi there TS. That server outage was annoying.

Legal reasons means in a publicly-funded, i.e. government-funded, hospital.

And does this apply only if they are married?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

So now she's not allowed to get an abortion unless she is forced to listen to an irrelevant and annoying opinion

Yes.

that has no place in her life and may even cause her emotional damage, just because the hospital isn't a private one?

How can it cause her emotional damage if the opinion doesn't affect her decision. Look, there are only two reservations I have on abortion. The one pertaining to our current discussion is that a woman shouldn't be able to have an abortion on a whim. More parties than just her are being affected by her decision.

You don't know what it is like, having someone hound you, telling you don't do this, that's mine, your body is mine, you a disgusting cunt -- And that's what that forced discussion road leads to. It's emotionally scarring, not because it changes her mind, but because it hurts. You fucking want to know what it's fucking like to have to listen to that, I will give you the biggest motherfucking earful you've ever heard.
And fucking second, if she thought he was trustworthy enough and cared about her enough, she would talk to him on her own. The fact that she doesn't want to talk to him is indicative of a problem, and by forcing her to talk to him you are making the problems worse.
And third, woman are often so fucking scared of their significant other that they will have a baby they don't want because he "made" her listen to him. That's called coercion and it is a psychological device that strips away the rights of a woman because a man uses her vulnerable, emotional, scared state to get into her head and make her feel worthless and dirty and that she has to obey him.
And fourth, I don't care if it's his genetic DNA, he can go out and fuck and impregnate someone fucking else. That is HER body, and he has NO right to tell her what to do.

[Mkuki]

If she wants to have an abortion in a publicly-funded, i.e. government-funded, hospital? Yes.

Note: The woman does not have to do what her husband says. She just has to hear his own grievances.


Legal reasons means in a publicly-funded, i.e. government-funded, hospital.

And does this apply only if they are married?

Married or have some form of recognized domestic partnership contract.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

It is still in her body, and she gets to choose what to do with her body. No one else gets to decide that, because (once again) it is her body and not theirs. It is not her husband's body, it is not her mother's body, it is not her friends' body, it is hers. It being inside her means literally everything.

Of course it means everything, that she should provide for its welfare until it is viable for removal (i.e, can live outside the womb).

Then again, I'm not sure what I'm even doing in this thread. Whether the man has a say in the decision isn't as big of a deal for me since I'm opposed to abortion in the first place.

She has no obligation to go through months of, honestly, torture, for the sake a fetus that is violating her bodily autonomy. It has no right to her body.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes.


How can it cause her emotional damage if the opinion doesn't affect her decision. Look, there are only two reservations I have on abortion. The one pertaining to our current discussion is that a woman shouldn't be able to have an abortion on a whim. More parties than just her are being affected by her decision.

You don't know what it is like, having someone hound you, telling you don't do this, that's mine, your body is mine, you a disgusting cunt -- And that's what that forced discussion road leads to. It's emotionally scarring, not because it changes her mind, but because it hurts. You fucking want to know what it's fucking like to have to listen to that, I will give you the biggest motherfucking earful you've ever heard.
And fucking second, if she thought he was trustworthy enough and cared about her enough, she would talk to him on her own. The fact that she doesn't want to talk to him is indicative of a problem, and by forcing her to talk to him you are making the problems worse.
And third, woman are often so fucking scared of their significant other that they will have a baby they don't want because he "made" her listen to him. That's called coercion and it is a psychological device that strips away the rights of a woman because a man uses her vulnerable, emotional, scared state to get into her head and make her feel worthless and dirty and that she has to obey him.
And fourth, I don't care if it's his genetic DNA, he can go out and fuck and impregnate someone fucking else. That is HER body, and he has NO right to tell her what to do.

Without mentioning the fact that men who do any of the above mentioned things are the lowest scum of the Earth in my opinion.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Of course it means everything, that she should provide for its welfare until it is viable for removal (i.e, can live outside the womb).

Then again, I'm not sure what I'm even doing in this thread. Whether the man has a say in the decision isn't as big of a deal for me since I'm opposed to abortion in the first place.

She has no obligation to go through months of, honestly, torture, for the sake a fetus that is violating her bodily autonomy. It has no right to her body.

It's not exactly torture, but I can see your point on this one.

[The Grey Wolf]

Of course it means everything, that she should provide for its welfare until it is viable for removal (i.e, can live outside the womb).

Then again, I'm not sure what I'm even doing in this thread. Whether the man has a say in the decision isn't as big of a deal for me since I'm opposed to abortion in the first place.

She has no obligation to go through months of, honestly, torture, for the sake a fetus that is violating her bodily autonomy. It has no right to her body.

The baby didn't decide to enter into an act that can result in pregnancy. Freedom comes with responsibilities.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

You don't know what it is like, having someone hound you, telling you don't do this, that's mine, your body is mine, you a disgusting cunt -- And that's what that forced discussion road leads to. It's emotionally scarring, not because it changes her mind, but because it hurts. You fucking want to know what it's fucking like to have to listen to that, I will give you the biggest motherfucking earful you've ever heard.
And fucking second, if she thought he was trustworthy enough and cared about her enough, she would talk to him on her own. The fact that she doesn't want to talk to him is indicative of a problem, and by forcing her to talk to him you are making the problems worse.
And third, woman are often so fucking scared of their significant other that they will have a baby they don't want because he "made" her listen to him. That's called coercion and it is a psychological device that strips away the rights of a woman because a man uses her vulnerable, emotional, scared state to get into her head and make her feel worthless and dirty and that she has to obey him.
And fourth, I don't care if it's his genetic DNA, he can go out and fuck and impregnate someone fucking else. That is HER body, and he has NO right to tell her what to do.

Without mentioning the fact that men who do any of the above mentioned things are the lowest scum of the Earth in my opinion.

If a man thinks he ought to have the right to force a woman to listen to him, 99% chance he is one of those scum.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

She has no obligation to go through months of, honestly, torture, for the sake a fetus that is violating her bodily autonomy. It has no right to her body.

The baby didn't decide to enter into an act that can result in pregnancy. Freedom comes with responsibilities.

Abortion is one form of responsibility.

[Othelos]

It's irrelevant, as abortion should only be permitted if a woman's life is under threat, and she'd clearly save herself.

Sorry, abortion is a woman's right. No one and nothing has a right to use her body against her will.

Sorry, but the fetus had no choice but to be there.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

She has no obligation to go through months of, honestly, torture, for the sake a fetus that is violating her bodily autonomy. It has no right to her body.

It's not exactly torture, but I can see your point on this one.

You've never been impregnated against your will.
Speaking from experience, it was torture.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Sorry, abortion is a woman's right. No one and nothing has a right to use her body against her will.

Sorry, but the fetus had no choice but to be there.

But she has the choice about whether it stays. Her body, her choice.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

She has no obligation to go through months of, honestly, torture, for the sake a fetus that is violating her bodily autonomy. It has no right to her body.

The baby didn't decide to enter into an act that can result in pregnancy. Freedom comes with responsibilities.

So what if the baby poses a legitimate health risk to the mother? Do we just say "fuck her! She opened her legs, let her deal with it" or do we say "fuck, you know? Thank God we have abortions, otherwise God fucking knows if she would be here today".

Plus, the baby isn't a baby until at least the 4th-5th month, making your appeal invalid.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It's not exactly torture, but I can see your point on this one.

You've never been impregnated against your will.
Speaking from experience, it was torture.

I will say I apologize to you in the name of all decent men who are still left in the planet if it happened to you or one of your friends/relatives/etc. You/them should have not had to go through that.

And I can see how it was, being that it was forced and all.

[Aestherra]

Yes, men should definitely have a choice. The situation wouldn't have happened if it were not for him, the baby is half his. It should be common sense that he gets a say.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

You've never been impregnated against your will.
Speaking from experience, it was torture.

I will say I apologize to you in the name of all decent men who are still left in the planet. You should have not had to go through that.

And I can see how it was, being that it was forced and all.

Even pregnancies that aren't forced can still be torture. It depends on the emotional state of the woman.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Yes, men should definitely have a choice. The situation wouldn't have happened if it were not for him, the baby is half his. It should be common sense that he gets a say.

The z/e/f isn't in his body. He doesn't get to decide what happens to the woman's body.

[Mkuki]

Yes.


How can it cause her emotional damage if the opinion doesn't affect her decision. Look, there are only two reservations I have on abortion. The one pertaining to our current discussion is that a woman shouldn't be able to have an abortion on a whim. More parties than just her are being affected by her decision.

You don't know what it is like, having someone hound you, telling you don't do this, that's mine, your body is mine, you a disgusting cunt -- And that's what that forced discussion road leads to. It's emotionally scarring, not because it changes her mind, but because it hurts. You fucking want to know what it's fucking like to have to listen to that, I will give you the biggest motherfucking earful you've ever heard.
And fucking second, if she thought he was trustworthy enough and cared about her enough, she would talk to him on her own. The fact that she doesn't want to talk to him is indicative of a problem, and by forcing her to talk to him you are making the problems worse.
And third, woman are often so fucking scared of their significant other that they will have a baby they don't want because he "made" her listen to him. That's called coercion and it is a psychological device that strips away the rights of a woman because a man uses her vulnerable, emotional, scared state to get into her head and make her feel worthless and dirty and that she has to obey him.
And fourth, I don't care if it's his genetic DNA, he can go out and fuck and impregnate someone fucking else. That is HER body, and he has NO right to tell her what to do.

Yeah, that's nice and all. I don't agree and your blatant characterization of women as weak-willed and scared out of their wits doesn't help your case either. I never said my opinion was absolute. There are exceptions. Namely a record of abuse by the husband, or wife, and that only married persons apply to this rule. If a husband, or wife, is provably abusive then they don't get to sit with their wife and talk about having an abortion. They have no say whatsoever.

I doubt I'll be able to convince you, given your absolutist stance on something that directly affects more than one person, but I'll gladly continue to debate. I'd also suggest calming down. There's really no need to yell.

[The Grey Wolf]

The baby didn't decide to enter into an act that can result in pregnancy. Freedom comes with responsibilities.

So what if the baby poses a legitimate health risk to the mother? Do we just say "fuck her! She opened her legs, let her deal with it" or do we say "fuck, you know? Thank God we have abortions, otherwise God fucking knows if she would be here today".

Plus, the baby isn't a baby until at least the 4th-5th month, making your appeal invalid.

What is it with you people and putting words in people's mouths? If it poses legitimate health risk, then abortion is justified. Likewise with rape.
But if a woman willingly decides to have sex, and ends up pregnant, she should be responsible for bearing the child.

[Zweite Alaje]

The baby didn't decide to enter into an act that can result in pregnancy. Freedom comes with responsibilities.

So what if the baby poses a legitimate health risk to the mother? Do we just say "fuck her! She opened her legs, let her deal with it" or do we say "fuck, you know? Thank God we have abortions, otherwise God fucking knows if she would be here today".

Plus, the baby isn't a baby until at least the 4th-5th month, making your appeal invalid.

No reason for removal if the fetus is alive.

[Austonea]

It takes two to make a baby so men should have a choice weather or not his baby gets aborted

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

You don't know what it is like, having someone hound you, telling you don't do this, that's mine, your body is mine, you a disgusting cunt -- And that's what that forced discussion road leads to. It's emotionally scarring, not because it changes her mind, but because it hurts. You fucking want to know what it's fucking like to have to listen to that, I will give you the biggest motherfucking earful you've ever heard.
And fucking second, if she thought he was trustworthy enough and cared about her enough, she would talk to him on her own. The fact that she doesn't want to talk to him is indicative of a problem, and by forcing her to talk to him you are making the problems worse.
And third, woman are often so fucking scared of their significant other that they will have a baby they don't want because he "made" her listen to him. That's called coercion and it is a psychological device that strips away the rights of a woman because a man uses her vulnerable, emotional, scared state to get into her head and make her feel worthless and dirty and that she has to obey him.
And fourth, I don't care if it's his genetic DNA, he can go out and fuck and impregnate someone fucking else. That is HER body, and he has NO right to tell her what to do.

Yeah, that's nice and all. I don't agree and your blatant characterization of women as weak-willed and scared out of their wits doesn't help your case either. I never said my opinion was absolute. There are exceptions. Namely a record of abuse by the husband, or wife, and that only married persons apply to this rule. If a husband, or wife, is provably abusive then they don't get to sit with their wife and talk about having an abortion. They have no say whatsoever.

I doubt I'll be able to convince you, given your absolutist stance on something that directly affects more than one person, but I'll gladly continue to debate. I'd also suggest calming down. There's really no need to yell.

How the fuck can you yell through typing? Is my typing too loud for you?
And second, I never characterized women as weak-willed. But you clearly don't know what emotional abuse is and how it works and that even the strongest willed person can be a victim of it.
And I don't give a flying shit if it affects ten thousand people. Those ten thousand people don't get a say in what happens to HER body when it only directly affects HER.