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Shooting women for refusing sex is OK!

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Should he have been acquited?

I don't even
301
63%
Don't mess with Texas!
108
23%
Bonobo parade
71
15%
 
Total votes : 480

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:No. I'm saying that the Supreme Court understands basic jurisprudence, unlike you.


Then you would be incorrect.

Considering the law ITSELF states the opposite of what you're arguing, you're lying.
Neo Art wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
No you fucking haven't. You may be confused because I've asked you to multiple times but every time I ask you bring up a general wikipedia article about illegal transactions or a section of the law that really doesn't address who has legal claim to the money.


Wait, that's really ALL you want? Proof of my original assertion that he has no grounds to claim the return of money paid for illegal services? Fine

if a court will not, on grounds of public policy, aid a promisee by enforcing the promise, it will not aid him by granting him restitution for performance that he has rendered in return for the unenforceable promise. Neither will it aid the promisor by allowing a claim in restitution for performance that he has rendered under the unenforceable promise. It will simply leave both parties as it finds them, even though this may result in one of them retaining a benefit that he has received as a result of the transaction


Rest.2d Contracts, § 197, com. a, p. 71. The first part of the bold is clear, the law will not allow restitution. The second line, bolded and underlined, is EXPLICITY, the law will leave the parties AS IT FINDS THEM, even if one benefits while the other did not.

He handed money to her as part of the illegal transaction. That is how the law found them. Her with money, him without sex. The law will neither require her to provide sex, nor require her to return the money.

He GAVE her the money, yes he EXPECTED something in return but what he EXPECTED was not something he was legally authorized to contract for. All he did, as a matter of law, was give her money.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
Sex is implicit in the contract given the sort of organization she works for and the traditional framework of how escort services operate in Texas...

This. Is. A. Lie. Sex CANNOT be in the contract because that is ILLEGAL.


You can't take someone else's money through trickery... that's ILLEGAL.

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Please, never serve in a Jury in Texas. We have enough individuals who are ignorant of the law.


You want more individuals such as myself on juries if you want justice to be done.

Not the politically-correct type of justice... but ACTUAL justice.

You mean people who don't understand jurisprudence?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:18 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:This. Is. A. Lie. Sex CANNOT be in the contract because that is ILLEGAL.


You can't take someone else's money through trickery... that's ILLEGAL.

It's not his money anymore if he voluntarily gives someone money for an illegal action.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
The Steel Magnolia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:18 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:This. Is. A. Lie. Sex CANNOT be in the contract because that is ILLEGAL.


You can't take someone else's money through trickery... that's ILLEGAL.


Firstly, no it's not. Secondly, no she didn't.

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:18 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
You want more individuals such as myself on juries if you want justice to be done.

Not the politically-correct type of justice... but ACTUAL justice.

You mean people who don't understand jurisprudence?


People who understand you can't just walk out of someone else's house with 150 dollars when you tricked that money out of their pocket...

User avatar
The Steel Magnolia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:19 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:You mean people who don't understand jurisprudence?


People who understand you can't just walk out of someone else's house with 150 dollars when you tricked that money out of their pocket...


Or people who don't know shit about what actually happened.

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9890
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:20 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
Sex is implicit in the contract given the sort of organization she works for and the traditional framework of how escort services operate in Texas...

This. Is. A. Lie. Sex CANNOT be in the contract because that is ILLEGAL.


So is crack and marihuana, but dealers STILL sell them!

You: But its illegalz!

Us: ....Yes, but people still do it.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:This. Is. A. Lie. Sex CANNOT be in the contract because that is ILLEGAL.


So is crack and marihuana, but dealers STILL sell them!

You: But its illegalz!

Us: ....Yes, but people still do it.

Congratulations on not actually reading my post. Would you like a medal?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:You mean people who don't understand jurisprudence?


People who understand you can't just walk out of someone else's house with 150 dollars when you tricked that money out of their pocket...

The law says you're lying.
Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
Then you would be incorrect.

Considering the law ITSELF states the opposite of what you're arguing, you're lying.
Neo Art wrote:
Wait, that's really ALL you want? Proof of my original assertion that he has no grounds to claim the return of money paid for illegal services? Fine



Rest.2d Contracts, § 197, com. a, p. 71. The first part of the bold is clear, the law will not allow restitution. The second line, bolded and underlined, is EXPLICITY, the law will leave the parties AS IT FINDS THEM, even if one benefits while the other did not.

He handed money to her as part of the illegal transaction. That is how the law found them. Her with money, him without sex. The law will neither require her to provide sex, nor require her to return the money.

He GAVE her the money, yes he EXPECTED something in return but what he EXPECTED was not something he was legally authorized to contract for. All he did, as a matter of law, was give her money.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
You can't take someone else's money through trickery... that's ILLEGAL.

It's not his money anymore if he voluntarily gives someone money for an illegal action.


Doesn't matter... if she accepts and doesn't perform the action and runs, she's a thief.

If she performed the action, then she's a criminal of a different type. However, I would dispute that because I think prostution being ''illegal'' in Texas is only theoretical law, not one that is customarily enforced.

Point is, she should not have taken the money. She did, and she ran without doing the action, thus he had every right to shoot.

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:22 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:It's not his money anymore if he voluntarily gives someone money for an illegal action.


Doesn't matter... if she accepts and doesn't perform the action and runs, she's a thief.

If she performed the action, then she's a criminal of a different type. However, I would dispute that because I think prostution being ''illegal'' in Texas is only theoretical law, not one that is customarily enforced.

Point is, she should not have taken the money. She did, and she ran without doing the action, thus he had every right to shoot.

Again, the law says you're lying.
Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
Then you would be incorrect.

Considering the law ITSELF states the opposite of what you're arguing, you're lying.
Neo Art wrote:
Wait, that's really ALL you want? Proof of my original assertion that he has no grounds to claim the return of money paid for illegal services? Fine



Rest.2d Contracts, § 197, com. a, p. 71. The first part of the bold is clear, the law will not allow restitution. The second line, bolded and underlined, is EXPLICITY, the law will leave the parties AS IT FINDS THEM, even if one benefits while the other did not.

He handed money to her as part of the illegal transaction. That is how the law found them. Her with money, him without sex. The law will neither require her to provide sex, nor require her to return the money.

He GAVE her the money, yes he EXPECTED something in return but what he EXPECTED was not something he was legally authorized to contract for. All he did, as a matter of law, was give her money.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9890
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:22 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Linderman wrote:
You can't take someone else's money through trickery... that's ILLEGAL.


Firstly, no it's not. Secondly, no she didn't.


It's called robbery.....or atleast fraud. Both illegal. Where's your head at?
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:23 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
People who understand you can't just walk out of someone else's house with 150 dollars when you tricked that money out of their pocket...

The law says you're lying.


In case you haven't noticed... THE LAW ACQUITTED THE MAN!

:palm:

So as of now... the courts back my position. She tried to rob him of 150 dollars, he protected himself from theft and shot her.

User avatar
Imota
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1828
Founded: Dec 19, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Imota » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:24 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:This. Is. A. Lie. Sex CANNOT be in the contract because that is ILLEGAL.


So is crack and marihuana, but dealers STILL sell them!

You: But its illegalz!

Us: ....Yes, but people still do it.


If it's an illegal contract, that means the government cannot demand completion of the contract. Simple as that. The government says, "we're not touching this. This is not our issue". That's why contract killers typically demand a percentage up front.

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:26 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:The law says you're lying.


In case you haven't noticed... THE LAW ACQUITTED THE MAN!

No, it didn't.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
The Steel Magnolia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:26 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Firstly, no it's not. Secondly, no she didn't.


It's called robbery.....or atleast fraud. Both illegal. Where's your head at?


No, again, it's not. Stop lying about what the law is, Mav has proved you wrong repeatedly.

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:27 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Firstly, no it's not. Secondly, no she didn't.


It's called robbery.....or atleast fraud. Both illegal. Where's your head at?

And in this case, the woman did utterly nothing illegal.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9890
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:28 pm

Imota wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
So is crack and marihuana, but dealers STILL sell them!

You: But its illegalz!

Us: ....Yes, but people still do it.


If it's an illegal contract, that means the government cannot demand completion of the contract. Simple as that. The government says, "we're not touching this. This is not our issue". That's why contract killers typically demand a percentage up front.


The crime is still separate, she stole $150 and the man killed her. Not that it's justified, but point is the woman did scam him of over $100 which is theft. So they both should be in jail, if both were alive.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:28 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
In case you haven't noticed... THE LAW ACQUITTED THE MAN!

No, it didn't.


Congratulations son...

You've just proved to me that you have not been reading the OP closely. You may have missed the part where... he was acquitted for basically saying what I was saying?

But the law still backs you right even though he was acquitted? :palm: Seems legit.

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:29 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
It's called robbery.....or atleast fraud. Both illegal. Where's your head at?

And in this case, the woman did utterly nothing illegal.


Yes she did... she stole 150 dollars...

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9890
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:29 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
It's called robbery.....or atleast fraud. Both illegal. Where's your head at?

And in this case, the woman did utterly nothing illegal.


Yes she fucking did! It's called theft/robbery.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:29 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Imota wrote:
If it's an illegal contract, that means the government cannot demand completion of the contract. Simple as that. The government says, "we're not touching this. This is not our issue". That's why contract killers typically demand a percentage up front.


The crime is still separate, she stole $150 and the man killed her. Not that it's justified, but point is the woman did scam him of over $100 which is theft. So they both should be in jail, if both were alive.

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
Then you would be incorrect.

Considering the law ITSELF states the opposite of what you're arguing, you're lying.
Neo Art wrote:
Wait, that's really ALL you want? Proof of my original assertion that he has no grounds to claim the return of money paid for illegal services? Fine



Rest.2d Contracts, § 197, com. a, p. 71. The first part of the bold is clear, the law will not allow restitution. The second line, bolded and underlined, is EXPLICITY, the law will leave the parties AS IT FINDS THEM, even if one benefits while the other did not.

He handed money to her as part of the illegal transaction. That is how the law found them. Her with money, him without sex. The law will neither require her to provide sex, nor require her to return the money.

He GAVE her the money, yes he EXPECTED something in return but what he EXPECTED was not something he was legally authorized to contract for. All he did, as a matter of law, was give her money.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:29 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And in this case, the woman did utterly nothing illegal.


Yes she fucking did! It's called theft/robbery.

Please cite the law she broke.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:31 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Yes she fucking did! It's called theft/robbery.

Please cite the law she broke.


LOL... it's RIGHT above your own post in the thing you quoted :palm:

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