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Shooting women for refusing sex is OK!

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Should he have been acquited?

I don't even
301
63%
Don't mess with Texas!
108
23%
Bonobo parade
71
15%
 
Total votes : 480
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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32063
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:21 pm

Ifreann wrote:Because it was night time. Texas logic law.

Fixed.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:16 pm

Frisivisia wrote:If only she'd had a gun.


Look Fris, if you were being shot at and you were cornered you would want a fucking gun and most likely something bigger and more intimidating as a form of defense, why must you always challenge the average citizen's ability to defend him/herself from harm? Is self-defense this much taboo to you?
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:52 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Frisivisia wrote:If only she'd had a gun.


Look Fris, if you were being shot at and you were cornered you would want a fucking gun and most likely something bigger and more intimidating as a form of defense, why must you always challenge the average citizen's ability to defend him/herself from harm? Is self-defense this much taboo to you?

...Wow.

Just...wow.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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The Steel Magnolia
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Founded: Dec 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:54 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Look Fris, if you were being shot at and you were cornered you would want a fucking gun and most likely something bigger and more intimidating as a form of defense, why must you always challenge the average citizen's ability to defend him/herself from harm? Is self-defense this much taboo to you?

...Wow.

Just...wow.


To be entirely honest, I'm a pretty marginalized person myself and I'd feel a lot safer with a firearm myself. That doesn't in any way justify the utter lack of restrictions though.
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:55 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:...Wow.

Just...wow.


To be entirely honest, I'm a pretty marginalized person myself and I'd feel a lot safer with a firearm myself. That doesn't in any way justify the utter lack of restrictions though.

That's not my problem with his post. My problem is that he took a joke so seriously and honestly attempted to threadjack this into a gun control debate over a post on the first page.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Imperial Nilfgaard
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Posts: 3716
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:04 pm

*jawdrop*

what the.....fuck.
Down with the Banderovists!
Remember Odessa!
Крым это часть России. Россия Своих Не Бросает!

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Hallistar
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Founded: Nov 21, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hallistar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:15 pm

If she left his home right after he paid her, I can see why it is considered theft since she didn't provide "companionship" for the time agreed upon, but she's not legally obligated to engage in sexual intercourse with him. He should've taken her to a small claims court, and I think shooting her was definitely excessive.

If he wanted a gaurantee of sexual intercourse for money (Legally in the US), he should've went to some kind of legal brothel in Nevada.

That being said, he should've also looked up any reviews she might have had on those escort review sites I hear about. I'm pretty sure if she did that same thing to other people, she would have multiple negative reviews. People are more likely to rate something at all if they've had a negative experience versus a positive one.
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Hallistar
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Founded: Nov 21, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hallistar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:20 pm

Mike the Progressive wrote:I guess she shouldn't have tried to take the money. Of course, money for an illegal act. But still.

Yeah I think the shooter was definitely in the wrong, and I do agree that the escort should've also known the risk she was taking by going into someone's house who was probably armed and running off with their money. Being an escort is to take part in a risky business, with clients who could potentially be very dangerous. She should've known better about what she was getting herself into.
Last edited by Hallistar on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:34 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:...Wow.

Just...wow.


To be entirely honest, I'm a pretty marginalized person myself and I'd feel a lot safer with a firearm myself. That doesn't in any way justify the utter lack of restrictions though.


A .38 revolver with +P rounds will do just fine. And it's a very good conceal carry firearm for both genders.

As for "lack of restrictions", that depends what lack of restrictions your referring to.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Hallistar wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:I guess she shouldn't have tried to take the money. Of course, money for an illegal act. But still.

Yeah I think the shooter was definitely in the wrong, and I do agree that the escort should've also known the risk she was taking by going into someone's house who was probably armed and running off with their money. Being an escort is to take part in a risky business, with clients who could potentially be very dangerous. She should've known better about what she was getting herself into.


If the girl was alive she should be arrested for robbery.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:44 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Hallistar wrote:Yeah I think the shooter was definitely in the wrong, and I do agree that the escort should've also known the risk she was taking by going into someone's house who was probably armed and running off with their money. Being an escort is to take part in a risky business, with clients who could potentially be very dangerous. She should've known better about what she was getting herself into.


If the girl was alive she should be arrested for robbery.

Maybe. If the police weren't complete idiots, they wouldn't. They would instead, arrest the guy for attempting to engage in prostitution.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:46 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
If the girl was alive she should be arrested for robbery.

Maybe. If the police weren't complete idiots, they wouldn't. They would instead, arrest the guy for attempting to engage in prostitution.


And the girl for robbery. Being a phone hooker doesn't exempt you from being punished for commiting crimes.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Mavorpen
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Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:47 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Maybe. If the police weren't complete idiots, they wouldn't. They would instead, arrest the guy for attempting to engage in prostitution.


And the girl for robbery. Being a phone hooker doesn't exempt you from being punished for commiting crimes.

She didn't commit a crime. She would have if she would have had sex for money.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:47 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
To be entirely honest, I'm a pretty marginalized person myself and I'd feel a lot safer with a firearm myself. That doesn't in any way justify the utter lack of restrictions though.

That's not my problem with his post. My problem is that he took a joke so seriously and honestly attempted to threadjack this into a gun control debate over a post on the first page.


Keyword: YOUR problem.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:49 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
And the girl for robbery. Being a phone hooker doesn't exempt you from being punished for commiting crimes.

She didn't commit a crime. She would have if she would have had sex for money.


She tried to run off with the guy's money, didnt you read this?
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:50 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:She didn't commit a crime. She would have if she would have had sex for money.


She tried to run off with the guy's money, didnt you read this?

Yes. And as it's already been established, it wasn't his money. He gave it to her voluntarily.

Did you read ANYTHING that was posted in this thread past the OP?
Last edited by Mavorpen on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Frisivisia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Frisivisia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:50 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:She didn't commit a crime. She would have if she would have had sex for money.


She tried to run off with the guy's money, didnt you read this?

He paid her for time spent together. Then, she left, having felt she did her job. Next, he shot her in the neck because he thought he had paid for sex.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:54 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
She tried to run off with the guy's money, didnt you read this?

Yes. And as it's already been established, it wasn't his money. He gave it to her voluntarily.

Did you read ANYTHING that was posted in this thread past the OP?


I read EVERYTHING not anything. If she didn't give her services then she robbed him, not that it makes shooting her justified, but yet if she did had sex with him then she'd still would have committed a crime. Avoiding illegal activity doesn't justify commiting a different crime.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:57 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Yes. And as it's already been established, it wasn't his money. He gave it to her voluntarily.

Did you read ANYTHING that was posted in this thread past the OP?


I read EVERYTHING not anything. If she didn't give her services then she robbed him, not that it makes shooting her justified, but yet if she did had sex with him then she'd still would have committed a crime. Avoiding to doing something illegal doesn't justify commiting a different crime.

And since she didn't commit a crime, this is irrelevant. Look, I'm not going to waste my time repeating things that have ALREADY been said because you're too lazy to read. So, here:

Mavorpen wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
1. A wikipedia article on the general handling of legal agreements has no relationship to the laws of texas.

Of course it does. Prostitution is illegal in Texas.
Des-Bal wrote:2. After you posted that bullshit I immediately pointed out it didn't have the information I was asking for.

Yes, it does. It contains the necessary information to back up MY claim, not what you WANT me to be claiming.
Des-Bal wrote:3. Given my entire question is ABOUT the money from illegal transactions it requires that prostitution not be legal in texas.

Then there should be no problem with admitting that I'm correct. Illegal contracts are by default, void. It is therefore NOT a legitimate contract. Therefore, if you give someone money WILLINGLY, DESPITE assuming they were fulfill a part of an illegal contract, they are under NO obligation to give BACK your payment, because the contract is void in the first place.

Giving someone money of your own free will when there is no legitimate contract stating they must provide a service means that you are giving that money to them as a GIFT, and they have every right to keep it.
Des-Bal wrote:The goalposts are where they've always been you're running in the wrong direction.

Because I actually have a basic grasp of jurisprudence?

Mavorpen wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:You say that money offered to one party in exchange for an illegal service belongs to that party. Please deliver the specific laws supporting your claim.

No, what I'm saying is that if you engage in an illegal contract and one of the parties breaks the contract, then courts cannot and should not be enforcing this contract in the first place. This means that legally she had every right to take money that was GIVEN to her. If SHE took it from HIS hands without his consent, then you'd have a better point.

Mavorpen wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:Except the only agreement made was to exchange money for sex.

Assuming this bullshit is true, then that's not a legal contract and she still could have taken the money anyway because it was GIVEN to her of his own free will.

This isn't complicated at all.

Neo Art wrote:
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Thank you so much for that visual. >_>


God damn it, now it's in my head too

Seriously though. This just baffles. And backs up my low opinion of our supposed 'justice' system. Yes, this one is more blatant, but you see asshattery throughout and oft-discussed on this very forum. There has got to be a way to inject a touch of common sense (I know, I know, all too uncommon these days) into some of this. Into every aspect of our society, while we're at it.


Here's my REALLY REALLY BIG problem with this. Ignoring Texas' obscene law that makes it legal to use DEADLY FORCE to recover a hundred and fifty bucks, the underlying transaction itself was illegal. If he "gave her money" to have sex with him, he engaged in solicitation of prostitution. Since you can not, legally, give someone money in exchange for sex, what he did, legally, was give her money for nothing.

Which means he just GAVE her money.

Which means it wasn't STEALING anything.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Chernoslavia
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Posts: 9890
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:58 pm

Frisivisia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
She tried to run off with the guy's money, didnt you read this?

He paid her for time spent together. Then, she left, having felt she did her job. Next, he shot her in the neck because he thought he had paid for sex.


From the looks of things it seems the guy wanted sex. Escorts can be hired to perform sexual services too.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:59 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Frisivisia wrote:He paid her for time spent together. Then, she left, having felt she did her job. Next, he shot her in the neck because he thought he had paid for sex.


From the looks of things it seems the guy wanted sex too. Escorts can be hired to perform sexual services too.

No, they can't. That's ILLEGAL. They can provide sex as a bonus OUTSIDE of the money paid if they choose so.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:00 pm

I'm glad he was acquitted. She was trying to take 150 dollars from him... He had every right to shoot her.

Justice was done.
Last edited by Linderman on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:01 pm

Linderman wrote:I'm glad he was acquitted. She was trying to take 150 dollars from him... He had every right to shoot her.

Justice was done.

I just love when people don't know what they're talking about.

Actually...no, I don't. It's annoying. So, could you please gain knowledge of the subject at hand before making stupid posts?
Last edited by Mavorpen on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Linderman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:01 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:I'm glad he was acquitted. She was trying to take 150 dollars from him... He had every right to shoot her.

Justice was done.

I just love when people don't know what they're talking about.

Actually...no, I don't. It's annoying.


What do you mean?
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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:02 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:I just love when people don't know what they're talking about.

Actually...no, I don't. It's annoying.


What do you mean?

He had no right to shoot her. You don't have the right to kill someone for not engaging in an illegal contract with you.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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