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Shooting women for refusing sex is OK!

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Should he have been acquited?

I don't even
301
63%
Don't mess with Texas!
108
23%
Bonobo parade
71
15%
 
Total votes : 480

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The Steel Magnolia
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Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:38 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:In other words, you ADMIT that they didn't understand the law. They had NO legal precedent to make this decision upon. They threw up their hands and said, "obviously this bitch deserved it because she didn't give him sex!" That's NOT how the law works.


They understood the law.

Prostitution being illegal on paper =/= prostitution between 2 individuals is illegal in practice.


What's legal or illegal in practice is irrelevant.

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:38 pm

Linderman wrote:In Texas, prostitution between individuals goes unenforced and so is customarily legal. They only crack down on you when you're a pimp or leading some kind of massive prostitution ring...

It's a good thing that this isn't how the law works.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:39 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And she didn't break the law by taking the money.


She is in the escort business which often times offer sex.

Offer sex OUTSIDE of the legal contract.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Slazliyka
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Founded: Jun 07, 2013
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Postby Slazliyka » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:39 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And she didn't break the law by taking the money.


She is in the escort business which often times offer sex.


Yeah, and car washes often give you a nice complementary car freshener. I still don't get to shoot up the car wash if they don't give me one.

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Linderman
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Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:40 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Linderman wrote:
Laws in practice/customary laws =/= everything that's on paper.

In Texas, prostitution between individuals goes unenforced and so is customarily legal. They only crack down on you when you're a pimp or leading some kind of massive prostitution ring...

It's not that hard to grasp.

However, in ANY US court... stealing and theft are unequivocally illegal.


Funny. So is prostitution.


No... prostitution is not enforced in many jurisdictions.

Otherwise why isn't Senator Vitter facing charges for his contracts with prostitutes?

What's on paper =/= what''s illegal/legal in practice ALWAYS. It's not a 1 to 1 correspondence. There are a ton of laws in the US books that are in effect considered ineffective because they are disconnected from reality and customary law.

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The Steel Magnolia
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Founded: Dec 29, 2011
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:41 pm

Linderman wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Funny. So is prostitution.


No... prostitution is not enforced in many jurisdictions.

Otherwise why isn't Senator Vitter facing charges for his contracts with prostitutes?

What's on paper =/= what''s illegal/legal in practice ALWAYS. It's not a 1 to 1 correspondence. There are a ton of laws in the US books that are in effect considered ineffective because they are disconnected from reality and customary law.


Which means... precisely nothing, thank you very much for nattering on and on about an utterly irrelevant tangent.

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Linderman
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Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:41 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Linderman wrote:
They understood the law.

Prostitution being illegal on paper =/= prostitution between 2 individuals is illegal in practice.


What's legal or illegal in practice is irrelevant.


It is relevant.

Prostitution, once it is considered legal... means that the woman was 100% guilty and the man 0% guilty.

It is hugely relevant.

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:42 pm

Linderman wrote:Otherwise why isn't Senator Vitter facing charges for his contracts with prostitutes?

Because of something called the statute of limitations, which applies to ANY crime.

Holy fuck you REALLY have no idea what you're talking about.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Linderman
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Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:42 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Linderman wrote:
No... prostitution is not enforced in many jurisdictions.

Otherwise why isn't Senator Vitter facing charges for his contracts with prostitutes?

What's on paper =/= what''s illegal/legal in practice ALWAYS. It's not a 1 to 1 correspondence. There are a ton of laws in the US books that are in effect considered ineffective because they are disconnected from reality and customary law.


Which means... precisely nothing, thank you very much for nattering on and on about an utterly irrelevant tangent.


Actually, that would be your department and unfortunately even there I can't say you are doing what can be termed, even a remotely acceptable job...

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:42 pm

Linderman wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
What's legal or illegal in practice is irrelevant.


It is relevant.

Prostitution, once it is considered legal... means that the woman was 100% guilty and the man 0% guilty.

It is hugely relevant.

And since prostitution isn't legal...
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:42 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
She is in the escort business which often times offer sex.


Sex for money is illegal, and thus it's not part of any contract. What part of this is so hard to understand?


How do you know she didn't offer sex? If I shouted on the street "come one come all! Cherno's big crack chain is open for business" and a junky decides to pay me before I give him crack and I run off, I robbed someone.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Linderman
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Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:43 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:Otherwise why isn't Senator Vitter facing charges for his contracts with prostitutes?

Because of something called the statute of limitations, which applies to ANY crime.

Holy fuck you REALLY have no idea what you're talking about.


I am not the one who doesn't understand that you can't simply scam a person off 150 dollars and then make a run for it... You are.

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The Steel Magnolia
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Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:43 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Sex for money is illegal, and thus it's not part of any contract. What part of this is so hard to understand?


How do you know she didn't offer sex? If I shouted on the street "come one come all! Cherno's big crack chain is open for business" and a junky decides to pay me before I give him crack and I run off, I robbed someone.


...No you didn't.

The judiciary cannot enforce illegal contracts.

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The Steel Magnolia
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Founded: Dec 29, 2011
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:44 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Because of something called the statute of limitations, which applies to ANY crime.

Holy fuck you REALLY have no idea what you're talking about.


I am not the one who doesn't understand that you can't simply scam a person off 150 dollars and then make a run for it... You are.


Well thank fucking christ she didn't scam him out of 150 dollars.

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Mavorpen
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Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:44 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Sex for money is illegal, and thus it's not part of any contract. What part of this is so hard to understand?


How do you know she didn't offer sex? If I shouted on the street "come one come all! Cherno's big crack chain is open for business" and a junky decides to pay me before I give him crack and I run off, I robbed someone.

No, you didn't. Selling illegal drugs is an illegal contract, and therefore BY LAW, the court cannot consider your act theft and CANNOT force you to give back the money.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Linderman
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Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:44 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Linderman wrote:
It is relevant.

Prostitution, once it is considered legal... means that the woman was 100% guilty and the man 0% guilty.

It is hugely relevant.

And since prostitution isn't legal...


It's legal in practice in Texas. I've met many friends in Texas who regularly call on the services of prostitutes and brag about it all the time with the police doing absolutely nothing.

I could open blog about solicitating prostitutes while staying in Texas and no officer would come see me.

I'm speaking from experience...

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Linderman
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Posts: 186
Founded: Oct 22, 2008
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Postby Linderman » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:45 pm

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Linderman wrote:
I am not the one who doesn't understand that you can't simply scam a person off 150 dollars and then make a run for it... You are.


Well thank fucking christ she didn't scam him out of 150 dollars.


She did.

That's why the jury acquitted the man. It's not that complicated.

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The Steel Magnolia
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Founded: Dec 29, 2011
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:45 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And since prostitution isn't legal...


It's legal in practice in Texas. I've met many friends in Texas who regularly call on the services of prostitutes and brag about it all the time with the police doing absolutely nothing.

I could open blog about solicitating prostitutes while staying in Texas and no officer would come see me.

I'm speaking from experience...


Whether it is legal in practice doesn't matter an iota. Stop pretending it does.

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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:45 pm

Linderman wrote:I'm speaking from experience...

In other words, you're lying.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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The Steel Magnolia
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Posts: 8134
Founded: Dec 29, 2011
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Postby The Steel Magnolia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:45 pm

Linderman wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Well thank fucking christ she didn't scam him out of 150 dollars.


She did.

That's why the jury acquitted the man. It's not that complicated.


or you, like the jury, are ignorant of what the law says.

and the prosecution did a fucking terrible job.

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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:45 pm

Linderman wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Well thank fucking christ she didn't scam him out of 150 dollars.


She did.

That's why the jury acquitted the man. It's not that complicated.

No, the reason why they did it is mostly because they have no knowledge of jurisprudence, as it seems you do not.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
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Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:46 pm

Neo Art wrote:And if we don't like the 2nd restatement, how about the United States Supreme Court?

Judicial refusal to enforce promises contrary to public policy . . is not unknown to the common law, and the traditional course is to leave the parties where they stood when they knocked on the courthouse door.


General Dynamics Corp. v. United States, 567 F. 3d 1340

I was about to say you forget to explain what the Restatement of Contracts is.

Also you better cite the UCC just to be careful Texas might consider sex a Good.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Slazliyka
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Founded: Jun 07, 2013
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Postby Slazliyka » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:46 pm

Linderman wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And since prostitution isn't legal...


It's legal in practice in Texas. I've met many friends in Texas who regularly call on the services of prostitutes and brag about it all the time with the police doing absolutely nothing.

I could open blog about solicitating prostitutes while staying in Texas and no officer would come see me.

I'm speaking from experience...


Whether or not something is de facto legal should have no relevance in a de jure court ruling.
Last edited by Slazliyka on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grad Duchy of Luxembourg
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Founded: Nov 22, 2012
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Postby Grad Duchy of Luxembourg » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:47 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Sex for money is illegal, and thus it's not part of any contract. What part of this is so hard to understand?


How do you know she didn't offer sex? If I shouted on the street "come one come all! Cherno's big crack chain is open for business" and a junky decides to pay me before I give him crack and I run off, I robbed someone.

The witness testified that sex was not offered.
Economic Left/Right: -3.00
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.64

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Grad Duchy of Luxembourg
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Founded: Nov 22, 2012
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Postby Grad Duchy of Luxembourg » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:47 pm

Slazliyka wrote:
Linderman wrote:
It's legal in practice in Texas. I've met many friends in Texas who regularly call on the services of prostitutes and brag about it all the time with the police doing absolutely nothing.

I could open blog about solicitating prostitutes while staying in Texas and no officer would come see me.

I'm speaking from experience...


Whether a not something is de facto legal should have no relevance in a de jure court ruling.

Thank you, I was just about to post that.
Economic Left/Right: -3.00
Member of Caninope Contingent

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.64

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